I'm voting for Bush..voting for Kerry is the single stupidest act anyone can commit in November..as for WMDs if Hussein could have gotten them he would have..if he had the opportunity to help al Quaida he would have helped them

Quote:       Originally Posted by Packing4Peace

I have a few points I would like to make... 1: Islam is not the enemy. 2: Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on September 11

1. they aren't friends

2. they would have helped in any way they could have if the opportunity would have presented itself

[jerry]

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Example of Ad Hominem

Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

the war against terrorism can't be won..we have too many enemies at home

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lenny2

Bush DID LIE. He told us that Hussein had WMD and was a threat. Every single investigation into that has lead to the same answer: he had no WMD and was not a threat.

Lenny Bush didn't lie. He had evidence that suggested he did have WMD. For Bush to lie he would have to have known that the info was false. Also the latest report showed that Hussein was decieving the inspectors in order to show dominance in the area. Inspectors could not do their job properly because he did not cooperate. We had the wool pulled over our eyes by a third world dictator.

This is the same intell everyone else had and so lied about being true such as Kerry, Edwards, Blair, etc...

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

No the war on Terrorism CANNOT be won with conventional fighting for the following reasons:

1. Nothing will ever change if the Nations harboring these views and these terrorists don't stand up and police their own people.

2. This is not just our problem, however we are the only ones involved in it.

3. The American public cannot stomach longtime war with bodies coming home in bags.

4. You cannot fight Guerrilla warfare with conventional tactics.

5. You can't just go into other countries and start killing off regimes and governments as it is too costly and will never gain American support or international support for that matter.

the most aggravating part is is there are no "Front Lines" an enemy that hides among the general population emerging to attack with surprise..they don't wear uniforms identifying them as the enemy..they have no compunctions about killing their own innocent civilians

[Dennis]

The War on Terror can not be won because we tolerate such division amongst our selves.

They know this
The Enemy is counting on it.
they sit in their tents and laugh at us.
as they should.
We have become a country of baffoons.
We cannot stay united long enough to merely defend ourselves.
No one is willing to set aside their desires long enough to fight a war.
victory is ours in Iraq WE WON
yet for political reasons no one wants to accept our victory
they just want to attack the President claim Iraq is a disaster and leave.

We have run out on those people once allready
not many of them lived because of it.
We Wrongly Assumed that Saddam would be overthrown after Gulf I
He was not
The hatred for America festered and grew in the entire region.
the sanctions did not work
the inspectors did not work
the UN did not work
Iraq is living proof that the UN no longer functions.
They have lost their power forever.
we have whitnessed this.
never again will anyone believe or support a UN military action.
That is finnished
I can not for the life of me understand how reasonable people (reasonable sounding)
can argue that the inspections would have worked if given more time.
How much more time?
after 12 years
a bizillion dollars and millions of man hours of effort
what else could have been done?
when does it become time to say "enough is enough"?
It was the UN that made the resolutions
over and over again and again.
They did not have the ability or the will to enforce any of them.
they have now lost their credibility
Now that the oil for food scandle has surfaced we are talking about Billions of dollars that UN people where getting.
Saddam was aquiring all sorts of stuff reguardless of the sanctions
it had all fell away and was meaningless.
We get attacked at home and abroad, thousands are killed
we go to Afanistan then Iraq
they are the same
same reasons same war
yet
the anti american political party (THE DEMOCRATS)
have attacked every part of the War so they can argue in this current political campagne.
all these arguments are pre designed and there for meaningless. the dems will do anything to get in to power.
They will gladly open our nation to attack and possibly horrific destruction
just so they can get there man (Kerry) in the white house.
It is completly illogical
yet there are so many millions that act as if they have been programmed to believe everything said by the Democratic party
this belief is some sort of new reliegious thing.
their new God is the U.S. government as long as it is operated by the democratic party.
These peoples beliefs have gone from the eccentric to the Bizzar

it is unbelievable that this has happend but we are here.

I Pray we can navigate through this perilious time in our history

See the primary function that the UN was designed to do
was to prevent another WORLD war
so that if an agressor nation began to invade and occupy neighboring nations for conquest the UN could together stop them.
it seemed to work for a while
now that it has ceased to function its time for the UN to end
it has become a corrupt money broker that does not help anybody any more.
of course now that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics has disolved and there is no longer a Super power threat
the Reason for the United Nations had been diminished.
its running on decades of momentum
To bad really
it served its purpose, we didnt have another world war

Yet.........

The sanctions and inspectors WERE working. Iraq had no WMDs.

Iraq did not support terrorists.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Perhaps you are confusing Iraq with Iran, it's only one letter off, an easy mistake to make.

These are pretty well documented facts, and for me, supporting a lie is not worth over a thousand dead US troops, nor is it worth starting WW3.

To say that the Democratic party is Anti-American is Anti-American in itself, as it undermines the very idea behind american democracy.

True patriots ask tough questions, and demand straightforward answers. True patriots can admit when their leaders make mistakes. True patriots hold their elected officials accountable for the actions they choose to take.

Bush started a war we had no good reason to start. Over a thousand American troops and countless other human beings are now dead because of it. Iraq is now a breeding ground for terrorists and a reason for potential terrorists to hate us more than ever.

As a true patriot, out of concern for the well being of my country I must do my part to ensure that this man is not able to do more damage by voting him out of office.

[whirlwind]

well first thing is my brother in law has been in iraq for over a year,and so i do know the differance between iraq and iran. and if you are trying to say im not a true patriot email me and i will give you directions to come tell it to my face. although im crippled ill be more than happy for you to come tell me.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Phacopsrana

Lenny Bush didn't lie. He had evidence that suggested he did have WMD. For Bush to lie he would have to have known that the info was false. Also the latest report showed that Hussein was decieving the inspectors in order to show dominance in the area. Inspectors could not do their job properly because he did not cooperate. We had the wool pulled over our eyes by a third world dictator. This is the same intell everyone else had and so lied about being true such as Kerry, Edwards, Blair, etc...

Phaco he did lie. He told us that Iraq had WMD. Iraq did not have WMD. He said Iraq was a threat. Iraq was not a threat. Both of those statements were absolutely false. When he told us he had proof he became responsible for that statement; that's what being the boss is about - responsibility. And now he's not man enough to come clean.

[Shaun]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Lenny2

Phaco he did lie. He told us that Iraq had WMD. Iraq did not have WMD. He said Iraq was a threat. Iraq was not a threat. Both of those statements were absolutely false. When he told us he had proof he became responsible for that statement; that's what being the boss is about - responsibility. And now he's not man enough to come clean.

He relayed the information from all the intelligence services saying that he had the WMD -- Bush did not lie ! It has already been considered a proven fact

fighting the muslim terrorists is like fighting the Hydra..if you cut off a head two others replace it..

[Thrawn]

Quote:      

Phaco he did lie. He told us that Iraq had WMD. Iraq did not have WMD. He said Iraq was a threat. Iraq was not a threat. Both of those statements were absolutely false. When he told us he had proof he became responsible for that statement; that's what being the boss is about - responsibility. And now he's not man enough to come clean.

Could you prove iraq did'nt have WMD's before the U.S. invasion?
weather iraq had WMD's or not can you honestly say they posed no threat to other free nations or even the U.S.? The world almost waited too long to oust hitler, what would the future be if saddam was in power 5,10,or even 15 years from now?

[Dennis]

Packing4Peace
You see the illogical thinking in your argument,
thats why you still argue so vehamently.
You know what you are saying is wrong.
I know its hard to admit it, to your self.
So many cling to the thin belief that if Kerry is elected the War is over and All your Dreams will come true.

Many are even tired of being bothered by this war
its a head in the sand attitude.
you are complaining about 1000 killed? over the last year and a half?
In WWII it is estimated that world wide about 26,000 people died world wide, every day for four years.
and those are conservative numbers.
So Mr 4 peace you want to retreat from Iraq?
retreat from the entire gulf Area?
We have done things like that before,
it doesnt work.
It starts a cycle that ends in another World War
We may not be able to avoid one now no matter what we do.

Why is it that you dont have any sense of anger ?
you, your self?
for what the muslims have done?
To us?
What the muslims are doing ?
To us?
Why do you not have a care about What they are going to do?
To us?

Because you are not an "US" are you, you want to be a them.

You should go back to Just kinda floating along in life only to arrive safely at death haveing risked as little as possible.

See mr packing4 peace
Wars are fought for very good reasons
We have very good reasons

it Requires reality based thinking.
and you dont seem to be able to do it very well
I understand you do not want to go to Iraq,
you do not want to have to care about it
I suggest to you that you stop.
Stop caring about the War, it means nothing to you any way
and you will sleep better.
Stop lisening to the Democrats they are just useing you to parrot all the ideas they have thought up for you.
These un happy thoughts are keeping you from your happy place.
you need to go back to your happy place.
move on to something else,
this War stuff is to stressful for you to handle.

[Shaun]

Lets see a muslim terrorist was arrested over the weekend here in TN by the FBI as he was trying to buy Plenty of hardware (IE.... machine guns, rocket launchers and other explosives) he had all anti bush stickers on his van and Pro Kerry stickers

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

Packing4Peace You see the illogical thinking in your argument, thats why you still argue so vehamently. You know what you are saying is wrong. I know its hard to admit it, to your self. So many cling to the thin belief that if Kerry is elected the War is over and All your Dreams will come true.

I see nothing illogical in my arguments. I know tat just because Kerry is elected, the war will not just magically end. The point is that Bush has screwed up far too many times and continues to screw up every chance he gets. Bush has proven himself to be arrogant, irresponsible, and hasty, I don't admire those traits in a president, in fact, they scare me.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

Many are even tired of being bothered by this war its a head in the sand attitude. you are complaining about 1000 killed? over the last year and a half? In WWII it is estimated that world wide about 26,000 people died world wide, every day for four years. and those are conservative numbers. So Mr 4 peace you want to retreat from Iraq? retreat from the entire gulf Area? We have done things like that before, it doesnt work. It starts a cycle that ends in another World War We may not be able to avoid one now no matter what we do.

This isn't WW2. In WW2 we were fighting against people who were actively trying to take over the world by force. I don't expect this war to just end, and I know that pulling out now would cause even bigger problems in the long run. The point is that there was no reason for us to go into Iraq in the first place, and over a thousand US soldiers have died in a war we did not need to start. That is unacceptable. We have to finish this war, fight the real terrorists, and try not to screw up again. I think Kerry is the best hope of the two men who have a shot at the presidency.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

Why is it that you dont have any sense of anger ? you, your self? for what the muslims have done? To us? What the muslims are doing ? To us? Why do you not have a care about What they are going to do? To us?

I have nothing against muslims in general, it wasn't muslims who attacked us, it was terrorists who happened to be muslims. I am, however, mad as hell at the people responsible for 9/11 and I hope they all get either shot in battle or tried and executed.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

Because you are not an "US" are you, you want to be a them.

Are you accusing me of being a terrorist? That is ridiculous, I am an American and a Patriot. Just because I don't support the Neocon agenda of world domination doesn't mean I'm a terrorist.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

You should go back to Just kinda floating along in life only to arrive safely at death haveing risked as little as possible.

Go bact to floating along in life? Do you know me? No. So stop making assumptions, after all, assumptions allways start with an a**.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

See mr packing4 peace Wars are fought for very good reasons We have very good reasons

Not for Iraq.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dennis

it Requires reality based thinking. and you dont seem to be able to do it very well I understand you do not want to go to Iraq, you do not want to have to care about it I suggest to you that you stop. Stop caring about the War, it means nothing to you any way and you will sleep better. Stop lisening to the Democrats they are just useing you to parrot all the ideas they have thought up for you. These un happy thoughts are keeping you from your happy place. you need to go back to your happy place. move on to something else, this War stuff is to stressful for you to handle.

I don't want to be in a happy fantasyland place, and I am perfectly capable of doing my own thinking thank you very much. I care about the war because it affects me. It affects us all.

Oh, and by the way, I am perfectly capable of handling stress, thank you very much.

Why don't you try attacking my arguments next time instead of just attacking me.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shaun

Lets see a muslim terrorist was arrested over the weekend here in TN by the FBI as he was trying to buy Plenty of hardware (IE.... machine guns, rocket launchers and other explosives) he had all anti bush stickers on his van and Pro Kerry stickers

there's a surprise

If Osama bin Ladin could vote..he would vote for Kerry

Quote:       Originally Posted by Logansdad

If Osama bin Ladin could vote..he would vote for Kerry

So... you are going to let Osama tell you who to vote for?

Besides, I'm not too sure about that. The way I see it, Bush has done a very good job of not catching Osama. It only took about 9 months to capture Saddam, but it's been over three years and still no sign of Osama.

If he were voting on the best candidate for a stable, war and terrorism free middle east, Osama would probably vote Kerry. But Osama doesn't want peace and he doesn't want to be captured, so I'm thinking he would vote Bush.