[whirlwind]

i know almost nothing about these weapons,and i cant find any prices on the net for them. they do look cool and i love the 308's,so what does a guy look for in these and how much are they? how many choices of style are there? any websites that show the whole product line?

The CETME is one of those rifles that many military gun buffs might misidentify as an early Heckler & Koch HK-91, and there is a good reason for that. The rifle isn't an HK, but the HK-91 series
was developed from the CETME. After WWII, many German arms designers were out of work for good reason), thus they had to find gainful employment elsewhere. Many went to Spain's "CETME", or "Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales" (Special Materials Technical Studies Center) which was formed in 1948. These designers were tasked with designing a new "Fusil de Asalto", or Assault Rifle, for the Spanish military and export markets. The German designers working at CETME drew on the wartime experience with the promising German StG-41 and StG-45 (MG-45) machine gun and developed it further, coming up with a couple of prototypes that utilized a blowback/locking roller mechanism to operate the gun- an inheritance from the StG-45. The new gun, approved for production and development in the 1950s, was called the Model "A". It was a successful weapon, reliable, and popular.

Heckler & Koch, in business in Germany once the nation was allowed to manufacture arms again, was so impressed with the CETME rifle that they worked out a deal to co-develop the gun further. The HK-91 G3 series was the ultimate result. In fact, many parts are interchangeable between the
two, and CETME owners usually use an HK-91 G3 tech manual for their rifles. CETME developed other products for the military as well, but it is the rifle that has become the most famous. So much so that the rifle is simply known as "the CETME".
The CETME Described
The CETME is a semiautomatic, gas-blowback operated repeater. It utilizes a locking roller to delay the blowback action of the bolt carrier until the pressure in the barrel is reduced to a point
where the blowback force is not mechanically harmful (This is the innovative inheritance from the
StG-41 and -45 developed by the Mauser team in WWII). This is a relatively unique feature in military rifles since most semiautos are operated by a separate gas cylinder (like the AK or FN/FAL
series, for example). The bolt carrier rides a rail on either side of the stainless steel, cast receiver (in the case of Century Arms-built CETME's). The forward tube of the bolt carrier subassembly rides in its own tube located above the barrel which also houses the charging handle and a cleaning kit. A spring mounted on a rod in the buttstock extends forward into the bolt carrier assembly and provides the force to chamber the next round after being forced back by the blowback action.

The Spanish state company CETME (Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales - Special Materials Technical Studies Center, now known as Empresa National Santa Barbara) was founded in 1949 to develop various small arms for Spanish army. At about the same time it employed the German arms designer Ludwig Vorgrimler, who worked for the famous Mauser Werke in Germany before and during the World War 2. The Vorgrimler was the designer of the experimental German assault rifle, known as "Gerat 06" or Stg.45(M). This rifle was not manufactured in any quantities, but its design served as a basis for further development at the CETME, and more important, at the another German company, Heckler & Koch, which obtained a license for the Vorgrimler / CETME rifle design circa 1957. This deal later resulted in the famous family of the H&K weapons, like the G3 and HK33 assault rifles, HK21 and HK23 machine guns, MP5 submachine guns and numerous other small arms that achieved a worldwide popularity. All those weapons are built using the delayed blowback system of operation, designed by Vorgrimler and his men at the Mauser in 1945 and refined by CETME.

The initial assault rifle development at the CETME was conducted around proprietary intermediate cartridge, known as 7.92x40mm CETME. This cartridge featured a long and streamlined bullet, made from aluminum. The overall design was found adequate, but cartridge was rejected in favor of the 7.62x51mm round with lighter bullet and a reduced powder charge. Improved rifle entered serial production in 1956 and was adopted by the Spanish army in 1957. In 1958 CETME introduced a slightly improved design, known as Modelo B or Model 58. This rifle was intended to fire 7.62x51mm reduced loads but also could fire the standard 7.62mm NATO, if the bolt group and the return spring are replaced with the appropriate set of parts. In 1964, CETME introduced the Modelo C, which also was adopted by Spanish Army, Navy and Air Force. This rifle was intended to fire only standard, full power 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition. Its key improvements were 4-position diopter sights (instead of the earlier leaf type open sights), wooden handguards instead of earlier steel ones, bipod was made as a separate part and, most important, the chamber was fluted to improve extraction and avoid torn rims and cartridge case failures in harsh environment conditions. Production of the modelo C rifle was ceased in 1976, and in 1980s it had been gradually replaced by its 5.56mm derivative, CETME Modelo L assault rifle.

All 7.62mm CETME rifles are built around Vorgrimlers' roller delayed blowback system. This system employs a two parts bolt with two rollers. The front bolt part (bolt head) is relatively light and has a bolt face with extractor on it. It also has a hollow cavity at the rear, in which an inclined forward end of the rear part of the bolt (bolt body) is inserted. The system features two rollers, inserted from the sides into the bolt head and rested on the inclined forward end of the bolt body (see this diagram; it will pop up in the new window). When gun is fired, the pressure began to move the cartridge back against the bolt face. The rollers, which are extended into the recesses in the barrel extension, began to move inward into the bolt head, due to inclined shape of the recesses. This movement translates into the faster rearward movement of the heavier bolt body, so, at the initial moments of shot, when pressure in the chamber is still high, bolt face moves relatively slow. When pressure drops to a reasonable level, rollers disengage the barrel extension completely and from this moment on the bolt head and the bolt body move backward at the same speed, extracting and ejecting spent case and chambering a fresh cartridge on the way back. All CETME rifles are firing from the closed bolt. The trigger mechanism is hammer fired, and in military versions is capable in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes of fire. On the early models the safety / fire mode selector switch was located above the trigger at the right side of the gun. From the model C the safety / selector switch was relocated to the left side of the gun. The receiver is made from steel sheet stampings, as well as the trigger group housing, which is hinged to the receiver just behind the magazine housing. Early models (prior to Modelo C) were issued with integral folding metallic bipods and open leaf-type rear sights. The Modelo C rifles were issued with wooden handguards and a separate detachable bipods. The rear sights were replaced by the 4 positions diopter sights, marked for 100 - 400 meters range. All rifles featured a wooden buttstock and a folding carrying handle above the receiver. The flash hider of the Modelo C rifles was shaped to accept and launch NATO-standard rifle grenades. Most rifles were issued with magazines of 20 rounds capacity and made of steel, but 30 rounds magazines also were available.

[Troy]

hope this helps

Review by smokingsharp

From nort carolina on 5th Sep 2004

User Ratings

Value for money
10/10
Overall rating 8/10

Good Points:
Gun is good price

Bad Points:
Yes it jams, and also it tender loving care if your half gun smith forget it.

General Comments:
Century Arms Black Widow Cetme Sporter .308:
The mag lips need to be bent down, will use h&k mags. Also bolt may jam in rearward position. This is taken care of by polishing bolt down. If you put a h&k scope mount on, it will slide due to no saddle by rear site like h&K . I welded a saddle on back of cetme . but tappaco cheaper scope base is better it has top set screws but don’t over tighten, it will jam bolt and need more polishing. cetme shoots vey well and for educational purpose a class three dealer can change to full auto in a hour. I have two now and have had H&K but for 600.00 for two can't beat it. The plastic scope is trash it cracks at but plate. if you want a H&K it is not, but price is not either. I bought sparpe cetme part sets.

Recommended:
Yes


review 2

Review by charlie2t

From USA on 5th Sep 2004

User Ratings

Value for money
9/10
Overall rating 8/10

Good Points:
Economical, well built, functions well

Bad Points:
Not subminute accurate, trigger is typical H&K (long, creepy and rough)

General Comments:
I bought a Century Arms Black Widow Cetme Sporter .308 to try and was pleasantly surprised that a rifle that sells for the price of the CETME Sporter functioned as well as it did right out of the box without any tweaking. I cleaned mine and put it on the bench with FEDERAL Match ammunition and got groups well less than 2". While it is not a high dollar match grade rifle, it is a functional semi auto .308 and I have tested some that were much more expensive that did not do as well as this one. You just have to remember that it is what it is and with that in mind, it is a pretty good gun for the price.

Recommended:
Yes


and 5 more reviews at this link

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews61168.html

[SilverRun]

Below is a quote from this website.

http://atlanticfirearms.com/rifles/3...08_rifles.html

"CETME Rifle .308 Rifle with Muzzle Brake, Just like the H&K 91 rifles, original imported Cetme rifles factory built on a new receiver, black stock set, rated excellent comes with 1 20 round magazine, These are great affordable .308 rifles .
Sale Price $379.00"

They have a nice selection of .308's. I have seen them for a few dollars less at gun shows. I have been looking at one of these myself. But, I am still thinking on it. I had a G-3 clone from Century. Weird gun - first couple shoots were right on, but as soon as the barrel heated, looked like you took a shotgun to the target. I figure that was gun specific though. I never did figure it out. That was one of the few guns I have sold.

Everyone I talk to that owns a CETME's, really likes it.

[Big Dog]

Do a search thru this forum back a few months - you'll find previous threads regarding the CETME, including pics of mine. The CETME can be a very good rifle - mine has been a joy to shoot, abd accuracy varies from about 2" at 100 yards with most 7,62X51 ammo, to a best of .75" at 100 yards in two five round groups with the latest ammo I bought (Indian, I think).
Keep it clean and well,lubed, and it'll give excellent service.
Prices vary from about $300 to over $500, depending on the vendor. Century had a rash of bad guns come out at one time, but they have been much better lately.
The newer black synthetic stocks leave something to be desired. Some have cracked, and they have no provision for sling attachment. If you install original wood or HK stocks, beware that the Feds 922(r) provision applies as to foreign parts count. Many newer rifles don't have the same number of new US made trigger pack parts the older rifles had.
Best bet - get a good Chopo (wood stocked rifle).

[whirlwind]

thanks for the links guys! and ill check the back posts too big dog, thanks!

[Shaun]

coledistributing.com 349 each with 7 mags and wood stock kit

[virginiabbq]

Good review from four (almost five) years back...

[virginiabbq]

ok...four