scientists and god... - Page 2

BattleRifleG3 · 12-27-2004, 03:00 PM

An important fact to note:
You know how people say creationists view science with religious presuppositions?
Well guess what - that's where Darwin's theory of evolution came from. Darwin was on the road to studying theology and becoming a minister. Then he had a falling out with God, and went out to prove that God didn't exist, cause if He did, Darwin would have something to worry about. So Darwin formed his theory of evolution with the religious presupposition that God didn't exist.

So what's the truth? The truth is that we don't know jack squat. What we know about biology, I mean what we actually know and don't just fudge, tells us very little about the origin of species. Now we come up with theories that would answer our questions, sure. But we really don't know what else may be true that we haven't discovered yet and possibly never will. All to often we have thought we've found answers, and then gone "oops".

Which is why I vehemently resist technocracy.

Troy · 12-27-2004, 04:01 PM

BRG3,
That is what i was referring to in my comment on having an open mind. If proof doesn't exist you need an open mind to have any faith or to put any belief in anything.

whirlwind · 12-27-2004, 04:05 PM

some sub-species are able to breed with some success (as you stated) but the product of such is still within their species. like for example buffalo and cows can breed,the product is called "beef-alo". the meat from the beefalo is very lean like buffalo meat but has the consistancy of beef. now the product of this union maybe half buffalo and half beef but its still in the general bovine species. like you said about horses and mules is true also but as was pointed out in another post the product is sterile.nature wont allow it to continue. the same is true of the "ligers" (the product of a lion and a tiger breeding) they are always sterile.

lefty o · 12-27-2004, 04:23 PM

which came first, the chicken or the egg? arguing science vs. religion is pointless.

Oxford · 12-27-2004, 04:53 PM

Whirlwind...you taught me something today when you said, "ligers" (the product of a lion and a tiger breeding). That's a new one on me...but I'm not surprised. So yes, breeding between family members of a species is possible...but they don't reproduce. Good point!

However, when cows and chickens can copulate and reproduce...that's when I'll fall over on my face. :jaw:

As I said earlier, and I'm still convinced of this statement...it'll be a rare day when any of us change our down deep views on evolution and science. I believe that's something that we develop a viewpoint on very early in life and it's difficult to shape differently, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. :nod:

smoker · 12-27-2004, 04:55 PM

Science teaches us how to build better guns. Religion teaches us who we should shoot at!

Seriously though, scientific and religious approaches to reality both have certain unavoidable presuppositions. It's as much a statement of faith in things unseen to say that "man evolved from monkeys" as it is to say "God made man."

The really practical question is rather "do you believe what scientists tell you, or do you believe what God tells you?" Either way, you're taking it on someone else's authority. Heck, I take it on someone else's authority that China exists since I've never been there. Me, I believe God no matter what those silly scientists say. I think he's probably got a better understanding of the cosmos. That's also why the Bible isn't a cosmological treatise or a quantum physics manual: God only put there what he thought we needed to know.

whirlwind · 12-28-2004, 10:57 AM

i agree ox that peoples personal views are very hard to change if not impossible,but maybe through discussion the fog of both sides may lift and we may someday know the truth about alot of things.

Rufus Rhastus J · 12-29-2004, 11:47 AM

i've often heard there were three sides to each story: your side, my side and then, there's the truth.

Troy · 12-29-2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus Rhastus J

i've often heard there were three sides to each story: your side, my side and then, there's the truth.

bingo

Oxford · 12-29-2004, 04:09 PM

Rufus...you're a genius! :right: :nod:

7mmag6 · 12-29-2004, 04:21 PM

your side, the truth and the only thing I believe, my side

12-27-2004, 03:00 PM	#21
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	An important fact to note: You know how people say creationists view science with religious presuppositions? Well guess what - that's where Darwin's theory of evolution came from. Darwin was on the road to studying theology and becoming a minister. Then he had a falling out with God, and went out to prove that God didn't exist, cause if He did, Darwin would have something to worry about. So Darwin formed his theory of evolution with the religious presupposition that God didn't exist. So what's the truth? The truth is that we don't know jack squat. What we know about biology, I mean what we actually know and don't just fudge, tells us very little about the origin of species. Now we come up with theories that would answer our questions, sure. But we really don't know what else may be true that we haven't discovered yet and possibly never will. All to often we have thought we've found answers, and then gone "oops". Which is why I vehemently resist technocracy. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

12-27-2004, 04:05 PM	#23
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,728 Trader Rating: (0)	some sub-species are able to breed with some success (as you stated) but the product of such is still within their species. like for example buffalo and cows can breed,the product is called "beef-alo". the meat from the beefalo is very lean like buffalo meat but has the consistancy of beef. now the product of this union maybe half buffalo and half beef but its still in the general bovine species. like you said about horses and mules is true also but as was pointed out in another post the product is sterile.nature wont allow it to continue. the same is true of the "ligers" (the product of a lion and a tiger breeding) they are always sterile. __________________ De oppresso liber !

12-27-2004, 04:53 PM	#25
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 12,948 Trader Rating: (0)	Whirlwind...you taught me something today when you said, "ligers" (the product of a lion and a tiger breeding). That's a new one on me...but I'm not surprised. So yes, breeding between family members of a species is possible...but they don't reproduce. Good point! However, when cows and chickens can copulate and reproduce...that's when I'll fall over on my face. :jaw: As I said earlier, and I'm still convinced of this statement...it'll be a rare day when any of us change our down deep views on evolution and science. I believe that's something that we develop a viewpoint on very early in life and it's difficult to shape differently, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. :nod: __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

12-27-2004, 04:55 PM	#26
smoker Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 67 Trader Rating: (0)	Science teaches us how to build better guns. Religion teaches us who we should shoot at! Seriously though, scientific and religious approaches to reality both have certain unavoidable presuppositions. It's as much a statement of faith in things unseen to say that "man evolved from monkeys" as it is to say "God made man." The really practical question is rather "do you believe what scientists tell you, or do you believe what God tells you?" Either way, you're taking it on someone else's authority. Heck, I take it on someone else's authority that China exists since I've never been there. Me, I believe God no matter what those silly scientists say. I think he's probably got a better understanding of the cosmos. That's also why the Bible isn't a cosmological treatise or a quantum physics manual: God only put there what he thought we needed to know. __________________ Audentes fortuna juvat. -Virgil Nemo me impune lacessit. -motto of the Order of the Thistle "Mister, we deal in lead." -The Magnificent Seven

12-28-2004, 10:57 AM	#27
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,728 Trader Rating: (0)	i agree ox that peoples personal views are very hard to change if not impossible,but maybe through discussion the fog of both sides may lift and we may someday know the truth about alot of things. __________________ De oppresso liber !

12-27-2004, 04:01 PM	#22
Troy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manitoba Canada Posts: 2,499 Trader Rating: (0)	BRG3, That is what i was referring to in my comment on having an open mind. If proof doesn't exist you need an open mind to have any faith or to put any belief in anything.

12-27-2004, 04:23 PM	#24
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,672 Trader Rating: (0)	which came first, the chicken or the egg? arguing science vs. religion is pointless.

12-29-2004, 11:47 AM	#28
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Trader Rating: (0)	i've often heard there were three sides to each story: your side, my side and then, there's the truth. __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf

12-29-2004, 04:09 PM	#30
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 12,948 Trader Rating: (0)	Rufus...you're a genius! :right: :nod: __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

12-29-2004, 04:21 PM	#31
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	your side, the truth and the only thing I believe, my side __________________ This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine