scientists and god...

[whirlwind]

why do ya think that scientists believe in everything with no proof of its existance except for god? it seems god is the only subject that they need absolute proof of to believe he exists. they swear by the theroy of evolution,but it has absolutely no hard evidence that proves it correct but it is being taught in schools as fact. scientists can look a zillion miles out into space and see a sun wobble a bit so they can tell ya how big the planet is that is making that sun wobble and also tell ya what it is made of but they can not accept the existance of god? i just dont get it?

[Big Dog]

Actually, more than a few scientists have become believers, when they realize the awesomeness of the Universe. As for Evolution - I support it. God invented the whole Genetic thing - so Evolution is his thing too, just part of the Way He Works.

[NorCalAshnjikov]

Originally Posted by whirlwind

why do ya think that scientists believe in everything with no proof of its existance except for god?

How many scientists have you been talking to?
I think you've been reading too much crazy propaganda.
Did you go to church before or after you went to school?
I'll bet at least half of all scientists learned about god before they
did about "science", and they still believe in god today.


>>it seems god is the only subject that they need absolute proof of to believe he exists.
So you're calling god a subject? You're gonna burn for that one

>>they swear by the theroy of evolution,but it has absolutely no hard evidence that proves it correct but it is being taught in schools as fact.

Once again with the propaganda nonsense.
Is the earth flat where you're from?
Are you going to dispute the existance of gravity next?
Do you even know what evolution is?
Its change.
There is plenty of hard evidence that change occurs and
that is a fact (compare first firearms to todays firearms).
We refer to this change as evolution.





>> they can not accept the existance of god? I just dont get it?
Ever read the bible?
There is nothing to get.
Faith doesn't grow on trees,
and you don't have to be a scientist to lose faith.

Next time you talk with a scientist,
you might want to thank him for rifled barrels and smokeless powder

[Rave]

I believe that a lot of these theories are cooked up to solicet gummint grants,(our tax money).

[whirlwind]

well norcal wheres the proof of evolution? name one species that has turned into a complete and totally differant species. not just mutations but a complete species change. no the world here is not flat here nor do i discount gravity. and god is a subject for discussion unless the discussion is with people that would rather throw insults than give an intelligent thought provoking answer or even offer a sensable argument to the contrary.

[whirlwind]

yup big dog,ive heard more than a few scientists speak out against the theory of evolution on talk radio and in papers too. i think more would if they werent afraid of being trashed by their peers.

[Klaus]

Whirlwind, please try to get an education, at least middle school level. Almost everything you said was blatantly false and illogical.

[whirlwind]

if ya dont like it dont read it. and kiss my !!!

[Troy]

some folks have an open mind and are willing to have some faith. some just have trouble coming to terms with anything that isn't tangible. if you can't see it, hear it, touch it, then it isn't there. the scientists that don't believe in god are like that cause they are driven to be like that. they want evidence of gods existence.

[whirlwind]

good point troy! but thats what puzzles me,they "need" the proof of god to believe but they dont need proof of evolution to believe in it. i dont know,its not their belief in god or disbelief that i question but rather why they need proof to believe in one thing and not others ya know?

[Troy]

whirlwind,
unfortunately i'm not very up on what proof of evolution of people exists. so my opinion on that isn't worth the letters i would use to type it. however i have seen enough behavior in my in-laws to believe that they came from monkeys though. couldn't resist that joke, i'm sure they feel the same about me and actually they are a great bunch of monkeys, oops i mean people. as for believing in one unprovable thing, whatever it may be, and not believing in another. that is one thing about being human, we're fallible and emotional. why do you believe one stranger over another? why is there so much trouble deciding a court case when everyone is strangers and everyone has a different way of looking at things? (scott pederson case, there is a hot topic for interpretation.) i guess interpretation is a good word for it. it's how you interpret the info that you have on something.

[whirlwind]

well said troy.

[Oxford]

I know this is a "hot" subject because it's been discussed forwards and backwards on previous threads. Doubt if any of us will change our views. We believe what we believe. Open minds? No! But I won't criticize those who believe differently than I do.

But, for whatever it's worth...Big Dog couldn't have said it clearer as to what I believe. And yes, I do believe in God. And yes, I've seen a gradual process of evolution over the years in many ways. And yes, we all have if we'd just open our eyes and our minds.

To name a few examples...my family used to raise dairy cattle. We started with low grade holsteins but kept siring new calves through seaman from the best bulls at K.State's animal husbandry program. In only a few years characteristics of those original cows were changed remarkably. Another example...university agriculture scientists have developed species of grains which have much more desirable characteristics than previously known varities, resulting in much higher yields, disease resistant to certain diseases, etc.

The list of gradual changes in know living matter is almost endless. I can't deny the existance of this change. But...I believe this is the result of God's work, not man's superior intelligence. I believe HE set up the system and we only discover more and more of his work, even though some people deny these discoveries, and that evolution was in HIS plan. Yes, I do believe in evolution. These kinds of examples, and plenty more, are all around us. Thank GOD for all this and I won't deny giving HIM credit for all living matter.

Now that's what I believe. :nod:

OX

[Gyrene]

Ox - It is by GODs' design that we have the ability to make changes to our environment, and have been able to develop the scientific things we have, including the ability to send space vehicles into outer space for exploration. The ability to develop new medicines and defeat some of our nemisis', except for the cold, flu, cancers, and . . ., are all with GODs' permission! The good, the bad, and the ugly are all with GODs' permission, and our free choice is with GODs' permission.

I will add that there are few people in foxholes, who do not believe in GOD. GOD may go by different names, but GOD is always present whether we need or want GOD in our lives.

I hate the description, "BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN", because it seems to define a group of fanatical missionaries, bent upon destroying anything non-Christian, and that is not what Christianity is all about. I was raised as a Christian, and Baptised, but I do not consider that being a "BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN", I was not born again, and I was raised as a Christian, with no change to me! I have been a Christian all my life, so far!

`

[whirlwind]

i suppose it would depend on what your definition of evolution. i respect your views ox but i would take the argument that selective breeding and genetic manipulation are not "evolution" as how i would define it. i would rather define evolution as a species jump. when folks manipulate the genetic structure of a plant such as corn or tomatoes to make them more resistant to changing weather or insects the plant stays what it was before only more resistant. and in selective breeding no matter what sperm you get from whatever bull the product is still a bovine. now if you accept the meaning of the word evolution as just plain and simple change then i would have to whole heartedly agree.

[7mmag6]

well for me I geuss I dont really care what people believe(surprise), in nature we see changes in universal scales. the universe evolves has evolved, from simple embyonic stars and galaxies, to stars of heavier elemental composition, the simple fact is all things change with time, the notion that life evolves and changes to match the enviornment over vast geologic time scales only proves to me the beauty and wonder of gods creation, we are all composed of star dust, elements forged in long evolved stars, and dispersed into the changing universe to create more stars and in the basis of life, a design that is beyond comprehension and breath taking in its simplicity and majesty, a plan only god could concieve

[Despoiler]

One day the zoo-keeper noticed that the orang-utan was reading two books - the Bible and Darwin's The Origin of Species. In surprise he asked the ape, "Why are you reading both those books"?
"Well," said the orang-utang, "I just wanted to know if I was my brother's keeper or my keeper's brother."

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Originally Posted by 7mmag6

well for me I geuss I dont really care what people believe(surprise), in nature we see changes in universal scales. the universe evolves has evolved, from simple embyonic stars and galaxies, to stars of heavier elemental composition, the simple fact is all things change with time, the notion that life evolves and changes to match the enviornment over vast geologic time scales only proves to me the beauty and wonder of gods creation, we are all composed of star dust, elements forged in long evolved stars, and dispersed into the changing universe to create more stars and in the basis of life, a design that is beyond comprehension and breath taking in its simplicity and majesty, a plan only god could concieve

Yes, for those of you who doubt my ability to think, I agree. You explaination is as good as I have heard.

[Oxford]

You know what? I believe more of us guys are on the same wave link on this subject than it seemed earlier, before we agreed on observing changes in nature through selective breeding, as Gyrene called it. :nod: Glad we had this discussion. :right:

And...my definition of evolution is on a very broad scale. To me evolution means that any living matter which changes it's characteristics over time is an example of evolution. It is not limited to man being a descendant of monkeys for sure.

And Whirlwind...I understand your comment on doubting that species cross over in their breeding, etc. That makes sense. However, what about the occasions when mules and donkeys breed, dogs and wolves breed, and other animals crossbreed which I don't specifically remember at this time. Yes, they're of the same biologiological family...but they do crossover under certain conditions. Wish I could think of other species which have crossed over. I suppose some of them get into carnival's freak shows.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Also, it's worth takeing note that many "high-breeds" are sterile. Therefore, that particular "cross over" is doomed to be a one night stand.