[dhermesc]

This guy has finally figured out how to sell .303 brass on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7135441836

At $8.00 he aint doing half bad either.

[gunssb]

funny.

isn't the price a tad bit high ?? how much is aussie currency in US money ?

[Big Dog]

Hehehe. That was worth the read.

I pity the fool who bids and then doesn't pay him.

[BattleRifleG3]

please read everything please read everything please read everything please read everything

303 brass

This auction is for FIVE PIECES of 303 brass in a stripper clip.

it is

Single flash hole.

it is

Able to be reloaded

Because Ebay has asked me to be VERY DETAILED lest I have my auction cancelled and possibly even my account suspended, please be very careful to read MY DISCLAIMER as follows AND their nonsensical emails and my frustrated replies at the end and you will understand all.

Please note: This is a SERIOUS AUCTION and the winning bidder will get the brass!

THIS MARVELLOUS 303 BRASS IS…….

UNPRIMED

DE-PRIMED

PRIMERLESS

VOID OF PRIMER

WITHOUT A PRIMER

With regard to primers, there arent any.

PRIMERS ARE VERY, VERY EVIL BUT...

FEAR NOT

THERE ARE NO PRIMERS IN THIS AUCTION.

The emails will tell you of the evils of primers.

THIS SPLENDID 303 BRASS IS…….

INERT

IMPOTENT

DOES NOT GO BANG

IT IS EX-AMMUNITION

DEADER THAN ELVIS PRESLEY

DEADER THAN MY GRANDMOTHER

AND

IT IS DEADER THAN MONTY PYTHON’S PARROT

THERE IS

NO CORDITE

NO EXPLOSIVES

NO BALL POWDER

NO NITRO-POWDER

NO GUNPOWDER
NO FUNGAL POWDER

NO JOHNSONS BABY POWDER

NO LADIES FACE POWDER

NO WASHING POWDER

NO POWDERED MILK

NO POWDER FINGER

NO FLEA POWDER

OR ANY OTHER SORT OF POWDER

IN THIS AUCTION.

Because powder is VERY bad
(THE EMAILS WILL TELL YOU OF IT)

FURTHER:

It is NOT AMMUNITION according to any of the firearms & dangerous weapons acts of any of the Australian States or Territories.

Please read all of these Acts thoroughly to make sure:

New South Wales
Tasmania
Australian Capital Territory
Queensland
Western Australia
Victoria
South Australia
Northern Territory

ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMERS:

Do not eat this item
Do not do things with it that you shouldnt

you have been told.

[BattleRifleG3]

Now onto …..
THE EMAILS
they worry me







NOW – here are ebay’s silly emails to me and my truth seeking emails to them. Im not being sarcastic, just trying to do the right thing & get a good understanding.



Please note that the emails are in chronological order with the oldest first for the sake of continuity and easy reading.





If you get tired of reading the emails, please feel free to skip to the DISCLAIMERS they are really really important.







Please note: Names of the writers have been changed to protect them from embarrassment.









This is the email that started it all off:





Dear ninteen11 (@hunterlink.net.au),

It has come to our attention that your account has been in violation of our Firearms policies on more than one occasion.

Rather than suspend your eBay account, I wanted to take the time to give you a formal warning. Any future violations of this policy may result in the suspension of your account. Please understand that this is not a threat, but is meant as a courtesy.

If you are unsure, or if you have a questionable item, rather than risking further violations and account suspension, it would be best for you to write to us about the item before listing it. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions.

You may contact us through the following Web page:

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/contac...e/selling.html
Ask about selling (for sellers only) > Listing and managing your item > Is this item allowed or prohibited?

We respect and value you as an important member of the eBay community, and would like to keep that relationship intact.

Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter.

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc





>>
>> mailto:cssremove@ebay.com
>>
>> Original Message Follows:
>> ------------------------
>> Form Message %43333% 082100
>> D_ID020820051952D_ID/W_ID26720380W_ID/S_ID015S_ID
>> Subject: CW=C36001 Listed an item prohibited (banned) by eBay [#AU
> ?01
>> ]
>>
>> User Feedback: 236
>> User State: ?01
>>
>> Browser Info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1;
>> BCD2000; SV1)
>>
>> Ask about selling or billing > Listing removal reasons > Listed an item prohibited (banned) by eBay



I REPLIED………



>> Message: Hi,
>>
>> Ive received your threatening email and am quite put out by your lack of knowledge relative to the situation.
>>
>> My ONE & ONLY violation was to INCORRECTLY list a 9 shot magazine as a 10 shot.
>>
>> There has been NO other violations.
>>
>> In the past, you have UNFAIRLY and IMPROPERLY cancelled a number of my auctions simply because of your automated "dob in" system. Most of these cancellations are related to the sale of INERT BRASS and other NON AMMUNITION items.
>>
>> There are many EMPTY HEADED people who dont seem to understand what constitutes ammunition though it is clearly defined in the fire arms & dangerous weapons acts of each of the states & territories. I understand that ebay uses these definitions for ammunition and I have diligently complied with them in order to avoid prosecution and to keep ebay happy.
>>
>> I would appreciate it if you would investigate the FACTS before threatening me.
>>
>> I await your apology.



Ninteen11





THEN THEY SAID……..





Ø ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eBay Australia Customer Support" <aucswebhelp@ebay.com>
> To: "hvclc" <c@hunterlink.net.au>
> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: CW=C36001 Listed an item prohibited (banned) by eBay [#AU
> ?01 ]
> (KMM3230857V83396L0KM)
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Thank you for your e-mail.
>>
>> In regards to the 303 drill rounds (inert) not ammunition (Item #:>> 6505309284) auction that you listed, it was in violation because you stated that the items were brand new and unfired. Furthermore, there is no mention that your item was unprimed. You will need to indicate that your item is unprimed as well show that it has been fired and is useless.
>>
>> Thank you for your time.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Prod (name changed)
>> eBay Customer Support
>> _______________________________
>> eBay - Australia's online marketplace
>>
>> *******************************









THEN I SAID…………….





> Original Message Follows:
> -------------------------
>
> Thank you Prod (name changed),
>
>
> I appreciate the reply, however, again you have it WRONG.
>
>
>
> The "brand new unfired" 303 item you refer to was UNPRIMED BRASS and a SEPARATE ITEM to the drill rounds you cancelled.
>
>
>
> The UNPRIMED BRASS (relisted & sold as item 7128034425) was brand new and had NEVER been ammunition at any stage in its life. According to the firearms and dangerous weapons acts of all Australian states & territories (and Ebay policy as I understand it) ammunition must consist of primer, powder, case & projectile. EMPTY CASES can never be considered ammunition because of that. The term "UNFIRED" when used in relation to BRASS CASES means that the cases have NEVER EVEN BEEN USED AS AMMUNITION and not ex-ammunition that has been fired and is now simply brass casings. I also included a disclaimer in the item description that read "THIS IS NOT AMMUNITION" to help the mentally deficient understand. I note that

I do understand that explosives cannot be sold on ebay but that should not even rate a mention.
>
>
Also, there was no need to further mention that the item was unprimed because BRAND NEW "UNPRIMED" BRASS is,,,, by nature,,,, unprimed.
>

Relative to the 303 DRILL ROUNDS. (relisted & sold as item 6505549020) They were CLEARLY DESCRIBED AS "INERT". When the term "INERT" is used in the context of cartridges it means that there is nothing of an explosive nature about it. Further, DRILL ROUNDS - by nature - contain NO PRIMER, NO EXPLOSIVE and no flash hole through the primer pocket - which means that it has NEVER BEEN AMMUNITION - NOR COULD IT EVER BE MADE INTO AMMUNITION. These "DUMMY ROUNDS" are used by the military (et al) for the purpose of teaching people how to load and unload magazines/firearms safely, without the possibility of an accidental discharge whilst being educated. The reason an accidental discharge is impossible with drill rounds is because they are NOT AMMUNITION - they come from the factory WITHOUT POWDER OR PRIMER and have red lines painted on them so everybody knows that they are as dead as Monty Python's parrot. If any body had bothered to read the description this would have been blindingly obvious.
>
>
>
> Finally, Im very careful how I describe the items that I list because I fully understand that there are many gun hating people out there that will do anything to have a firearms related listing cancelled. I also understand that, now-a-days the average person does not understand "diddly-squat" about firearms and related items so I try to make it easy for everyone, so, if you, or anybody else bother to read my description you will see that I do not list prohibited items.
>
> It is a shame that those in charge of cancelling listings dont know anything about the items that they are cancelling.
>
> You obviously dont understand the Acts, what constitutes ammunition or even your own policies & that translates to unprofessionalism of the highest order and, finally, I do take great offence at being threatened with suspension when you are SO VERY WRONG. (Even though you say that your threat is not a threat).
>

> As your reply to my previous email only strengthens my case, and highlights your error, I still await an apology.
>

> Regards,> Ninteen11







TO WHICH THEY REPLIED………..






----- Original Message -----
From: "eBay Australia Customer Support" <aucswebhelp@ebay.com>
To: "HCLC" <hclc@hunterlink.net.au>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: AU90060 Thank you for contacting eBay Trust and Safety.
(KMM3502256V31931L0KM)

[BattleRifleG3]

> Hello,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to write to eBay. My name is Oonaloo (name changed), and I appreciate the opportunity to help clear this up for you.
>
> First of all, I appreciate your patience in waiting for a response. We have had unusually large amounts of email volume, and are working hard to address your issues in a timely manner.
>
> Now, in regards to the auctions that were removed from eBay, Item #s 7127779825 and 6505309284, I have found that they were appropriately removed. Please allow me to explain:
>
> 7127779825 ("303 BRASS NEW") :: Nowhere in your auction did it state that the brass was unprimed. This is why your auction was removed. We are not experts -- when listing brass, please make sure to indicate whether or not they are primed, and if they are primed, whether or not they have been fired.
>
> 6505309284 (303 drill rounds) :: Although you did state that they were inert, you would still need to mention how they were made inert (e.g. powder removed, primer removed or fired, etc.). You must specifically mention whether or not the powder and primer are included. If they never contained powder/explosive material, nor primer, please state this within your auction. Mentioning the fact that they are "dummy rounds"
> with no powder/primer would have resulted in your auction *not* being removed.
>
> Now, you do a wonderful job explaining these items in your emails to us. In order to avoid future auction removals, I would suggest putting in as much detailed information in your listings.

>
> In regards to the notice you received regarding possible suspension, please understand that it is not meant as a threat, but rather an informational notice bringing to light policies and guidelies which sellers may not be familiar with. Rest assured that your account will
> not be negatively affected should you comply with our policies.
>
> Should you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
>
> Regards,
>
> Oonaloo (name changed)
> eBay Customer Support
> _______________________________
> eBay - Australia's online marketplace
>
> *******************************





AND THEN I WROTE………






Greetings Oonaloo,



I still do not accept that you are acting according to your own rules or acting fairly for the following reasons.

1 You quote the links to the firearms acts of the states & territories but do not seem to accept their definition of ammunition.

2 I cannot find anywhere in your guidelines & policies that state a need mention primers or powder for NON AMMUNITION items to be listed.


Further, with item 7127779825 ("303 BRASS NEW"). Brass is brass. Thats it. Brass is NOT ammunition. Never has been and never will be. Brass is a non explosive COMPONENT which the acts you quote confirm in their definitions. The following is a quote from section 4 of the NSW Act.

"ammunition" includes:
(a) any article consisting of a cartridge case fitted with a primer and a projectile, or
(b) any article consisting of a cartridge case fitted with a primer and containing a propelling charge and a projectile



Relative to item 6505309284 (303 drill rounds). Drill rounds are manufactured without any explosive components at all. Again, according to the acts, they are not ammunition. The terms "drill" & "dummy" are synonymous.

Neither of these items should have been cancelled. It appears to me that you are simply defending your actions rather than making a right decision to acknowledge your error & apologising to me.

My questions now are these:

1 Why quote the acts if you dont accept their definitions?

A disclaimer that says "THIS IS NOT AMMUNITION" should be more than adequate & is what I (and many others) have done in the past.

2 How am I expected to know what your requirements are if you dont let me know up front? Now, if you have got instructions somewhere that tell me that when listing inert cases or non explosive components that I have to specifically mention that there is no explosives involved - please direct me to it & I will humbly & sincerely apologise for not doing the right thing from scratch.

3 If explosives are not permitted at all on ebay, (and I fully understand that they are not & totally agree with that) why do I have to mention that there are none with my brass cases but am not required mention that there is no explosives with any other item I list? eg: A teddy bear? "This teddy bear has no primer or powder". "This 25 piece socket set has no primer or powder?" If explosives are so horribly forbidden, perhaps we need note that there is none in anything and everything that we list?

4 When an alleged listing violation is reported by a member of the Ebay community, is the listing checked by a human being or is it automatically deleted by your "dob in" programme? Im sure it is automatic because a human could not be so totally brainless as has been demonstrated to date but I just have to ask. It will explain a lot.

5 How come I can quote to you many recently completed auctions for similar items to the ones you cancelled that have no mention of the non existence of primers and powder?


Here are a few examples from the last couple of weeks:

7132836718 223 brass NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER" (they do say "inert" but you say that doesnt count)

7132654075 222 rem brass NEW UNFIRED. NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER" It says "UNFIRED" thats bad according to you.
7131709122 308 brass NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

7129516001 223 brass - same again NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

7132782664 projectiles -just as much a component as brass so no different and... NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

7132422502 projectiles as above

7133489680 Projectile AND cases. - This is REALLY REALLY bad. Especially because there is NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

7131068831 Brass - more of that EVIL UNFIRED brass and again NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"


6510054858 drill round - NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

6510054600 drill round - NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

6510253250 303 BRASS - this is a BRILLIANT ONE - IT SAYS IT IS PRIMED!!!!!! but no problems for him huh?

6508786063 SHELL CASES - these are really big so they must be really bad and again NO MENTION of "UNPRIMED" or "NO POWDER"

There are plenty more but I think Ive made my point clearly enough.

I hope you have taken the time to look at these, and, if you are honest, you will begin to see why Im a little disappointed in why my auctions were cancelled and these were not. I see 2 different standards at work. Also, I note that I have listed numerous auctions for brass in the past simply with the disclaimer "this is not ammunition" (with no mention of the non existence of powder & primer) and these auctions have completed without
incident.


You say that your letter relative to suspension of my account was not a threat "but rather an informational notice bringing to light policies and guidelines which sellers may not be familiar with". Again, please refer me to the guideline/policy that requires me to mention primer & powder & explain why the above completed auctions were not cancelled.


Now, relative to YOUR SARCASTIC COMMENT on how "I do a wonderful job explaining these items in your emails to us" and "I would suggest putting in as much detailed information in your listings", may I suggest that you exercise some COMMON SENSE. Please refer to all these completed items above again. I will though, give a very, very detailed description in future BUT can you guarantee me that my auction wont be cancelled even if I do kowtow to your request?


Any way, Im still waiting for that apology.

Regards,

ninteen11







NOW IM AWAITING THEIR NEXT REPLY………



(TO BE CONTINUED)

[BattleRifleG3]

In an effort to be a good ebayer & keep my 100% feedback rating held for 5 years now, please read my









FINAL DISCLAIMER








This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied; Do not remove this tag under penalty of law; Confined Space - Do Not Enter; user assumes full liabilities; not liable for damages due to use or misuse; equal opportunity disclaimer; no shoes, no shirt, no bidding; caveat emptor; read at your own risk; this disclaimer may contain material some readers find objectionable; parental advisory: explicit lyrics; keep away from pets and small children; limit one-per-family please; no money down; no purchase necessary; ask us about our non-guns-for-bid-trade-in plan; you need not be present to bid; some assembly required; batteries not included; action figures sold separately; this disclaimer was packed full, contents may have settled during mailing; sanitized and sealed for your protection; do not bid if safety seal is broken; do not bid while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment; safety goggles may be required during use; call before you use this disclaimer; use only with proper ventilation; for external use only; if a swelling, redness, rash, or irritation develops, discontinue bidding; do not place near a flammable or magnetic source; keep away from open flames; avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes; disclaimer contents under pressure, may explode if incinerated (joke – really); smoking this disclaimer may be hazardous to your health; the best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of this disclaimer; text is made from 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles; no electrons were injured in preparing this disclaimer; no animals were used to test this disclaimer; no salt, MSG, preservatives, artificial colour or flavour added; if ingested, do not induce vomiting, if symptoms persist, consult an auctioneer; possible penalties for early withdrawal; one size fits all; this disclaimer is valid only at participating auction sites; slightly higher north of Brisbane; allow four to six weeks for delivery; if defects are found, do not try to fix them yourself, but return to an authorized auctioneer; please remain seated until the bidding has come to a complete stop; bidding in the mirror may be more complicated than it appears; this disclaimer does not cover hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, and other Acts of God, sonic boom vibrations, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, unauthorized repair, improper installation, misuse, typos, misspelled words, missing or altered signatures, and incidents owing to computer or disk failure, accidental file deletions, or milk coming out of your nose due to laughing while drinking; other restrictions may apply. If something offends you, lighten up, get a life, and move on.





Now,



READ THIS IMPORTANT THING ABOUT PAYMENT & POSTAGE THEN MY JOY WILL BE COMPLETE.









IMPORTANT!!!!

DON’T BID UNLESS YOU READ THIS FIRST!!!!!!!!

TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY



“Every time a system is made foolproof - a new class of fool emerges.”

Prod Harris



Beacuse Ebay has freaked me out so bad and I now spend all my waking hours shaking in a corner like a dog sitting on a thistle I have little or no capacity to deal with any one else giving me a hard time.



So..........







Please note: Successful bidder needs to contact me within 48 hours of close of auction and PAY within 3 working days or the item will be re-listed and negative feedback will be left.



If you cant do this,, PLEASE DON’T BID.



Also, let it be known, I have great difficulty with people who win auctions then ask questions like “can I pay you next week?” Read carefully: if you don’t have the money, DON’T BID. Sorry to be horrible but SLOW PAYERS & NON PAYING BIDDERS are a nuisance and I do want to discourage them. After having numerous auctions cancelled by ebay and having to relist I really dont feel like waiting any longer.



KEEP READING - WE’RE NOT FINISHED YET



Payment:

Payment will be by DIRECT CREDIT to bank account or by PAYPAL for overseas bidders

NO EXCEPTIONS

(unless by PRIOR arrangements)



Note: Please don’t win and then try to send me a money order, or cash, or sea lion skins, cowry shells, your pet stick insect, your grandmother, crack cocaine, tea leaves or anything else that you might think I will accept - because I wont. If you are in Australia and you cant direct credit me DON’T BID. If your from overseas & cant do PAYPAL - DON’T BID.

I will have an outburst of negative feedback in your general direction if you aggravate me by ignoring this term.





REAL IMPORTANT

READ THIS BIT A FEW TIMES

!!!!!MUST READ!!!!!



Postage:

Postage (within Australia) for this item is shown in the Payment Instructions. Please factor the quoted amount into your bid as part of the total cost of the item. I do not claim that the postage quoted is actual, in most cases it is more than sufficient (however in others it is not) but is quoted now in order that you can make a fully informed bid without me working out individual costs for postage for each auction ,, so,, please DON’T ASK ME FOR A QUOTE - just factor the quoted amount into your bid. I trust you understand. I hope you understand, I even pray you understand (because so many don’t & I cant understand why). Australian bidders, if you want your item sent registered and insured (up to $100) please let me know and I will do that. This costs an additional $2.00 over the quoted price and is a very wise option. If you don’t & it goes missing I cant do anything about that except to feel sorry for you. (Having said that, we haven’t lost one yet, but give Australia Post time, they will). Thank you for your understanding.



Oh, and, please please please don’t ask me to discount on postage if you win more than one item. I'm not into that. If you feel the urge to ask me that then you need to read the above paragraph at least another 5 times and pray for understanding.



Real life story: Some POOR SOUL actually read all this, won one of my auctions, then had the nerve to BAG OUT on me in feedback BY SAYING “SHIPPING COST EXPENSIVE IE CHARGED $15.00 COST $5.80 ”

To which I replied:

“Postage amount was clearly shown in the item description & payment instructions”

AAAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!!!!

IT WAS SOOOO HARD TO REMAIN POLITE!!!!

So, welcome to my “blocked bidders” list!

Please refer to the quote at the top of the TERMS.



so



If you cant respect the above PLEASE DON’T BID

it really is OK not to bid





ALMOST FINISHED, KEEP GOING!!!!!



Overseas Postage: As above, however sometimes not quoted in description. If not, please contact for a quote.



FINALLY



I used to be sane once but I think that I have sold too many things on ebay and they have hurt my brain. (I don’t know how those “power sellers” do it!!!!) I like people (generally speaking) I truly think people are the most important thing on the planet, I try hard to get on well with everybody & have some fun & head off all foreseeable problems before they occur in the interests of everybody’s well being, mental health, self esteem and for the sake of endangered species, world peace, the ozone layer and everything else but I have come to the conclusion that you cant win them all or please everybody all of the time. So, finally, if you cant handle my terms or my attitude (you guessed it) please DON’T BID.



The end

I feel better now.







Please feel free to buy my piece of brass for $5.00 with the “buy it now” thingy as it will encourage me greatly as I continue to write emails to people who have a problem with honest, law abiding people who enjoy an endangered sport.



Please note: all monies received from this sale will be used for the purchase of sedatives.







OH YEAH, DON’T FORGET TO CHECK OUT MY OTHER ITEMS.

[wirehunt]

gunssb it isn't about the money he deserves every cent! He's put a little bit of effort into, that's why it'll go a lot higher yet

[BattleRifleG3]

It's now about the principle.

[colt45]

after finally giving up on ebay here last year for the same problem. I feel the guys pain.

[wirehunt]

AU $38.90 (US $30.64) and counting

[dhermesc]

Keep posting Ebay's replys, this is **** interesting.

[toolman]

This guy sounds like a good addition to G&G-I think we should recruit him!

[wirehunt]

AU $50 US $39.42 and counting

[gunssb]

well at least they're letting him post up all that stuff - they could've just shut him up and banned his account and no one would have found out :insane:

[Apollyon67]

Quote:       Originally Posted by toolman

This guy sounds like a good addition to G&G-I think we should recruit him!

A agree, He has a good imagination going there.

[myarmor]

I can't believe people would pay $40 for 5 rounds of crappy brass.
Man I hope I never get that hard up for brass to reload.

[BattleRifleG3]

It's not about the brass anymore. It's about principle.

[Thrawn]

up to $50 this morning

[Habakkuk21]

Bless his heart, but he got dumped again, and had to re-list!
His new location is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW
I think if I were him, I'd keep the brass; maybe have it bronzed!