Anyone carry mase or other "non-lethal" alternative to side arm? - Page 2

gunssb · 06-21-2005, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrawn

I usually have a good supply of gas on tap. I chases off anything that can get away, especialy after some good pastrami sandwiches and Guiness.:right:

okay thanks for the info but I just had lunch

Thrawn · 06-21-2005, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunssb

okay thanks for the info but I just had lunch

Want some cheese with that whine? you're in france after all.:drink:

gunssb · 06-21-2005, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrawn

Want some cheese with that whine? you're in france after all.:drink:

very funny - had pizza at some Italian place where they sort of understand English

solar · 06-21-2005, 07:41 AM

There’s an interesting diversity of opinions.

It seems like a lot of people have the mentality “shoot first, question second”. While I agree the point of CCW is for self defense, the legal battle you will face will be an enormous financial burden – no matter where you shoot someone or their condition afterwards.

Rebel727 – if you maced someone, how would they know who you are? I’m assuming that if you were in a confrontation where you maced someone, you wouldn’t stick around to give them your home address.

JamesFayNC – I think regardless of what state you’re in, following the procedure you mentioned will at least show that you did what you could to escape and avoid the situation.

Phrogg – I find it hard to believe the courts will view a .22 differently than a 10mm. A gun is viewed as a lethal weapon no matter what caliber it is. If you shoot someone, you shoot someone.

m

inuyasha · 06-21-2005, 01:09 PM

i would think if your forced to think about defending yourself like that, then you probably care more about living, then dying/being injured yet still having your money. i dont think i would care to have mace as a backup... they had a guy on cops that had to be on some kinda drugs -- they maced him about 5 times and it 100% did not effect him.. instead it got in the cops eyes and THEY had the trouble. if your lucky enough that the attacker isnt the one packing, then try to escape, at least to a more fortified position, then try to signal help/defend yourself.

Thrawn · 06-21-2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solar

It seems like a lot of people have the mentality “shoot first, question second”. While I agree the point of CCW is for self defense, the legal battle you will face will be an enormous financial burden – no matter where you shoot someone or their condition afterwards.

I'm not the law, come around here and screw with me and you'll find yourself on the receiving end of whatever artillary I'm carrying that day. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six!:gangster:

rebel727 · 06-21-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solar

Rebel727 – if you maced someone, how would they know who you are? I’m assuming that if you were in a confrontation where you maced someone, you wouldn’t stick around to give them your home address.

m

Case of location. Everybody around here knows everybody else. That wouldn't be a problem "somewhere else" but we got our share of druggies and drunks that get "antsy" sometimes and you never know what they're going to do. There was a guy a few months ago that considered himself a bad !!!!! got ticked at some kids and whipped his truck around and was going to run them down but when he whipped around he hit another truck head on. He's a dead !!!!! now. Good riddance. Would I shoot first at signs of aggression? You're dam skippy I would.

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bigdog21 · 01-07-2006, 06:45 AM

i hope to god you dont use mace also known as cn gas not even cops carry it anymore it so ineffective.all cops carry pepper spray which is 80% effective unlike mace(cn gas)is only 35-45% effective.

Rave · 01-07-2006, 09:12 PM

I have found a knife to be very effective and the level of injury easy to control,one doesn't have to kill or even seriously injure an attacker to stop the attack unless the attacker is on some mind altering drugs.
I have always felt that a container of mace would be rather uncomfortable when stuck in the wrong place.
Here in Florida one is allowed to defend oneself by any means when one can convince the authorities that one legitimatly feared for one's live or serious bodily injury.
The best thing to do is use a bit of common sense and avoid those situations if at all possible.

Shaun · 01-07-2006, 09:29 PM

The issue with mace or pepper spray you have to ask yourself is can you defend yourself in the case that someone sprays you with the stuff before an attack. 28% of the population is not affected by Mace (me included) - 14% of the population is not affected by pepper spray (it takes me down quick). Personally I would rather shoot the perp.

Otter · 01-08-2006, 07:32 AM

I carry a 3 section steel baton, a Ka-Bar, and/or a .45. If I have to defend myself, I don't want to piss off my attacker, I want to stop him.

"Life is too important to be taken seriously."

troy2000 · 01-08-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rave

...The best thing to do is use a bit of common sense and avoid those situations if at all possible.

I've spent a lot of time in a lot of interesting places, and I can usually smell trouble coming half an hour before it hits. I've avoided a lot of scars by not being there when the !@#$ hits the fan. Finish your drink and disappear when things start working up to rowdy, stay out of dark alleys, take the shortest route home, etc.

I no longer have any urge to take up the middle of the sidewalk to prove I can, or stand my ground just to prove that no one can push me.

And by the way, I've seen people get stupidly brave because they were armed or thought they had backup, when otherwise they'd have quietly sidestepped trouble. I'm not talking a duty to retreat; I'm talking about having the sense not to escalate the situation unnecessarily.

BattleRifleG3 · 01-09-2006, 01:10 AM

Anything can become a weapon depending on its use. An education is no exception. Knowing how to apply forces correctly matters.

Common sense is of course best. Running may seem pathetic, but frankly in many situations it's the best way to save your life AND your property. Consider how hard it is for you to hit a still target. Consider how long it takes you to aim your shots. Imagine that target running away from you at 15+ mph.

If running away is an option it's probably the better one. If it isn't, you're probably in a situation that clearly warrants the deadliest of force.

Dennis · 01-09-2006, 05:39 AM

I have used Pepper spray (oc capisicum) numerous times and it has performed exellently.
check to make shure that it works when you get it and replace it every 6 months
It is amazing when ya have a drunk drunk, and they just wont stop,
Then when you properly apply the product many forget what you where talking about.
It has helped, alot, many times.
just dont get any on you and then wipe your face later.

it doesnt wash off easily.
I got gassed a coupla times when we had the riots here 5 years ago.
that was miserable, had no choice in the matter......
When ya gotta get a unruly passenger out of your Taxi cab,
DONT SPRAY IN THE CAB!!!
Stop on a side street electrically un lock the doors, get out, open the passenger doors, and push them out on the curb side, if ya get in a clinch spray a spot on their cloths rub your hand on it and touch their face.
this works well and minimizes exposure inside the car.
see if your car is "gassy" it will be very hard to finnish your shift and your passengers will not ride with you.
Remember that spraying in the eyes "just like the instructions" works very well, but they have to be open.
Dont start feeling sorry for them afterwards, some of the squallerin crying jags that grown men will exibit are remarkable and embarassing.
once you have sprayed them, LEAVE. sometimes those that have recieved a spraying forget What they did and why they got sprayed and then "whip up" a fish tale about how they are the victims.
many people want to comfort a victim and will completly discount anything other than a "victims" story.
Dont let anyone see your pepper spray before you use it, when the time comes draw it and spray it.
Remember, the whole purpose is to "get Away"
so if you are faced with haveing to spray some Pooh head
Spray and LEAVE.
if there is more than one nugget, that you have to contend with, you can try and spray and hope the other leaves if they dont.
Trust in God and carry your concieled pistol.
Make shure of your decision, Make it, and dont doubt yourself afterwards.
think about what you are doing when you are employing a weapon, make shure you can explain what you did and WHY you Did what you Did later to someone that asks.
Right after an incident Write it Down, this will help you organize your thoughts and will help you remember what you did and WHY you did it.
this is Very important.
there are thousands and thousands of people that have had justified reasons for employing a weapon and had to endure horrendous hardships afterwards because they could not coherently explain what happend and Why they did what they did.

all these "rules" apply to Any incident involving a confrontation with another person.
It can make the difference between doing 5 years for manslaughter and getting a "no bill" from a grand jury.(or 90 days for Ag assault with pepperspray)

WetKnife · 01-09-2006, 11:51 AM

I always have my lethal sarcasm ready to go.

Outriderdark · 01-09-2006, 01:30 PM

I use my lightning fast fists of fury coupled with my explosive legs and feet of certain death!

(I'm being sarcastic - since you can't carry a firearm in NJ humor is my only defense.)

troy2000 · 01-16-2006, 03:19 PM

As I mentioned earlier, I think it makes some people too brave.

And whether it's valid or not, I also have always felt that carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle can imply premeditation when the law tells you you have some 'splainin' to do.

I don't usually keep anything more lethal than a small pocketknife or a big ring of keys in my pocket. And I don't have anything in my vehicles that couldn't logically be explained as being there for purposes other than hurting people.

That leaves a lot of leeway: I think it's perfectly reasonable that a framing hammer should be floating around my pickup cab along with a few other tools, and for a German trenching tool to be kicking around in my Jeep from the last time I was offroad. But I'd never have an iron bar under the seat of the wife's minivan.

And I would caution people that if you plan to ever use something for self-protection, you'd better have practiced with it, and if the time comes you'd better use it enthusiastically. Otherwise you're simply placing a weapon where your opponent can get his hands on it.

Troy · 01-16-2006, 11:15 PM

yall are too tough. now i carry my arse, loaded, at all times. totally explainable why it is there, pretty important part of the body. and if the LEO's ever want to know why i was walking around with it loaded at said time of altercation, well, a simple explanation of dinner at the in laws will suffice. there may be some hazardous waste issues depending what was on for dinner, but hey, you mess with the azz, you get the gazz.:right:

View Poll Results: Do you carry mace?
Always	3	13.04%
Sometimes	3	13.04%
Never	13	56.52%
Carry something similar	4	17.39%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

01-07-2006, 09:12 PM	#29
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,744 Trader Rating: (0)	I have found a knife to be very effective and the level of injury easy to control,one doesn't have to kill or even seriously injure an attacker to stop the attack unless the attacker is on some mind altering drugs. I have always felt that a container of mace would be rather uncomfortable when stuck in the wrong place. Here in Florida one is allowed to defend oneself by any means when one can convince the authorities that one legitimatly feared for one's live or serious bodily injury. The best thing to do is use a bit of common sense and avoid those situations if at all possible. __________________ USAF '62-'66 . Last edited by Rave; 01-07-2006 at 09:15 PM.

01-07-2006, 09:29 PM	#30
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	The issue with mace or pepper spray you have to ask yourself is can you defend yourself in the case that someone sprays you with the stuff before an attack. 28% of the population is not affected by Mace (me included) - 14% of the population is not affected by pepper spray (it takes me down quick). Personally I would rather shoot the perp. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-08-2006, 07:32 AM	#31
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 942 Trader Rating: (0)	I carry a 3 section steel baton, a Ka-Bar, and/or a .45. If I have to defend myself, I don't want to piss off my attacker, I want to stop him. "Life is too important to be taken seriously." __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

01-09-2006, 01:10 AM	#33
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Anything can become a weapon depending on its use. An education is no exception. Knowing how to apply forces correctly matters. Common sense is of course best. Running may seem pathetic, but frankly in many situations it's the best way to save your life AND your property. Consider how hard it is for you to hit a still target. Consider how long it takes you to aim your shots. Imagine that target running away from you at 15+ mph. If running away is an option it's probably the better one. If it isn't, you're probably in a situation that clearly warrants the deadliest of force. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

06-21-2005, 07:41 AM	#24
solar Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: MA Posts: 157 Trader Rating: (0)	There’s an interesting diversity of opinions. It seems like a lot of people have the mentality “shoot first, question second”. While I agree the point of CCW is for self defense, the legal battle you will face will be an enormous financial burden – no matter where you shoot someone or their condition afterwards. Rebel727 – if you maced someone, how would they know who you are? I’m assuming that if you were in a confrontation where you maced someone, you wouldn’t stick around to give them your home address. JamesFayNC – I think regardless of what state you’re in, following the procedure you mentioned will at least show that you did what you could to escape and avoid the situation. Phrogg – I find it hard to believe the courts will view a .22 differently than a 10mm. A gun is viewed as a lethal weapon no matter what caliber it is. If you shoot someone, you shoot someone. m

06-21-2005, 01:09 PM	#25
inuyasha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US occupied territories of "south dakota" Posts: 355 Trader Rating: (0)	i would think if your forced to think about defending yourself like that, then you probably care more about living, then dying/being injured yet still having your money. i dont think i would care to have mace as a backup... they had a guy on cops that had to be on some kinda drugs -- they maced him about 5 times and it 100% did not effect him.. instead it got in the cops eyes and THEY had the trouble. if your lucky enough that the attacker isnt the one packing, then try to escape, at least to a more fortified position, then try to signal help/defend yourself.

01-07-2006, 06:45 AM	#28
bigdog21 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: florida Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	i hope to god you dont use mace also known as cn gas not even cops carry it anymore it so ineffective.all cops carry pepper spray which is 80% effective unlike mace(cn gas)is only 35-45% effective.

01-09-2006, 05:39 AM	#34
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,876 Trader Rating: (0)	I have used Pepper spray (oc capisicum) numerous times and it has performed exellently. check to make shure that it works when you get it and replace it every 6 months It is amazing when ya have a drunk drunk, and they just wont stop, Then when you properly apply the product many forget what you where talking about. It has helped, alot, many times. just dont get any on you and then wipe your face later. it doesnt wash off easily. I got gassed a coupla times when we had the riots here 5 years ago. that was miserable, had no choice in the matter...... When ya gotta get a unruly passenger out of your Taxi cab, DONT SPRAY IN THE CAB!!! Stop on a side street electrically un lock the doors, get out, open the passenger doors, and push them out on the curb side, if ya get in a clinch spray a spot on their cloths rub your hand on it and touch their face. this works well and minimizes exposure inside the car. see if your car is "gassy" it will be very hard to finnish your shift and your passengers will not ride with you. Remember that spraying in the eyes "just like the instructions" works very well, but they have to be open. Dont start feeling sorry for them afterwards, some of the squallerin crying jags that grown men will exibit are remarkable and embarassing. once you have sprayed them, LEAVE. sometimes those that have recieved a spraying forget What they did and why they got sprayed and then "whip up" a fish tale about how they are the victims. many people want to comfort a victim and will completly discount anything other than a "victims" story. Dont let anyone see your pepper spray before you use it, when the time comes draw it and spray it. Remember, the whole purpose is to "get Away" so if you are faced with haveing to spray some Pooh head Spray and LEAVE. if there is more than one nugget, that you have to contend with, you can try and spray and hope the other leaves if they dont. Trust in God and carry your concieled pistol. Make shure of your decision, Make it, and dont doubt yourself afterwards. think about what you are doing when you are employing a weapon, make shure you can explain what you did and WHY you Did what you Did later to someone that asks. Right after an incident Write it Down, this will help you organize your thoughts and will help you remember what you did and WHY you did it. this is Very important. there are thousands and thousands of people that have had justified reasons for employing a weapon and had to endure horrendous hardships afterwards because they could not coherently explain what happend and Why they did what they did. all these "rules" apply to Any incident involving a confrontation with another person. It can make the difference between doing 5 years for manslaughter and getting a "no bill" from a grand jury.(or 90 days for Ag assault with pepperspray) __________________ Submitted with respect to all

01-09-2006, 11:51 AM	#35
WetKnife Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 239 Trader Rating: (0)	I always have my lethal sarcasm ready to go.

01-09-2006, 01:30 PM	#36
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125 Trader Rating: (0)	I use my lightning fast fists of fury coupled with my explosive legs and feet of certain death! (I'm being sarcastic - since you can't carry a firearm in NJ humor is my only defense.) __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

01-16-2006, 03:19 PM	#37
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,142 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm not a big believer in carrying weapons As I mentioned earlier, I think it makes some people too brave. And whether it's valid or not, I also have always felt that carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle can imply premeditation when the law tells you you have some 'splainin' to do. I don't usually keep anything more lethal than a small pocketknife or a big ring of keys in my pocket. And I don't have anything in my vehicles that couldn't logically be explained as being there for purposes other than hurting people. That leaves a lot of leeway: I think it's perfectly reasonable that a framing hammer should be floating around my pickup cab along with a few other tools, and for a German trenching tool to be kicking around in my Jeep from the last time I was offroad. But I'd never have an iron bar under the seat of the wife's minivan. And I would caution people that if you plan to ever use something for self-protection, you'd better have practiced with it, and if the time comes you'd better use it enthusiastically. Otherwise you're simply placing a weapon where your opponent can get his hands on it. Last edited by troy2000; 01-16-2006 at 11:35 PM.

01-16-2006, 11:15 PM	#38
Troy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manitoba Canada Posts: 2,502 Trader Rating: (0)	yall are too tough. now i carry my arse, loaded, at all times. totally explainable why it is there, pretty important part of the body. and if the LEO's ever want to know why i was walking around with it loaded at said time of altercation, well, a simple explanation of dinner at the in laws will suffice. there may be some hazardous waste issues depending what was on for dinner, but hey, you mess with the azz, you get the gazz.:right: