Calling all Nerds - Building a Computer

[BattleRifleG3]

Warning: Tech Talk to follow that even I don't understand

In response to my computer woes, I've decided to build a computer dedicated to multimedia projects and basically all hardware and software, and strip my current computer down into an internet machine running Linux in order to resist the evils of computer viruses that nothing I've been able to do can stop.

I don't need a super-duper expensive machine, but I do want quality.

My idea thus far is to build on an Athlon 64 processor due to the high system bus speed. I currently run an Athlon XP 2600 at 2.16GHz. Current processors don't seem to have come all that far ahead. At the store, I don't even see processor speed ratings anymore. My impression has been that Sempron, Duron, and Celeron processors just don't do as well as the Athlons and Pentiums, but does anyone know better? I lean Athlon over Pentium because I've been told they are more reliable and efficient running, even if slightly less than 100% compatible with everything thrown at them.

So there are Athlon 64s at 1600MHz bus using the 754 socket, and ones at 2000MHz bus using the 939 socket. The latter is more expensive and isn't as available in package deals from Tigerdirect. BTW, anywhere else I should be looking?

I basically want to use this computer for:
Word Processing
Image Generation and editing
Video generation, capture and editing (possibly including animation)
MIDI music composition, generation, recording, and editing (all within the computer)
Other sound and video recording, editing, mixing, exporting, and such
Perhaps eventually computer engineering design programs

All of the above would have to be done at the best reasonable quality for the price. One use I DO NOT have is gaming.

I intend to install the sound card of my choice and some sort of video capture and output card(s). However, I do not need insane graphics on the monitor. I would want good capacity for and compatibility with peripherals, such as external drives, card readers, and video cameras. This may mean installing additional cards and/or drive bay devices.

First order of business would be a LARGE case with plenty of drive bays, particularly external ones. I mean LOTS. At least two DVD drives, at least one of them rewritable. AT LEAST two other drive bays. The larger mid-size cases with four 5" bays are a good spot to start, but even more would be nice.

I need LOTS of PCI slots and at least one AGP (for possible graphics card). I see all these "PCI Express" slots of all different kinds and don't know what the heck they are or what they're good for. If I had my way I'd get an ISA slot and use a favorite sound card of mine from the 20th century. Screw gaming, it does the greatest MIDI music I could have ever imagined.

Some motherboards I'm looking at have a composite and S-Video out. Looks great. Others don't even have a friggin VGA monitor output. WTH? Do monitors now use a different connection? Or am I expected to buy the additional video card of my choice? If so, how the heck do I install the software if I can't see anything?

So yeah, I have a zillion "what the heck" sorts of questions that should probably be asked one at a time, but they all affect what I buy. But if anyone has any experience choosing computer components and has answers to any of my above questions, you are my heroes. They say when you need to know about technology, ask someone younger than yourself. Welp I'm getting old, so now it's you young (or young at heart) folks' turn to give me a hand.

[BattleRifleG3]

I'm basically shopping at Tigerdirect.com. Can anyone tell me if any of their motherboards are better than others? I also have preferences between nationalities of manufacture, ie US and those more friendly or less unfriendly to the US. And can I assume that any motherboard will work with any case, or do I have to be aware of compatibility issues? Some cases have front side USB included, would they attach to any motherboards?

[Big Dog]

BRG, some of the newer flat monitors have the capability of using a USB connection - ours at work can do that.
With all the extras you want to run, be sure to get a very robust power supply! That was the Achilles Heal of the E-towers - a mediocre PS. Probably need a really good cooling fan too.

I'm leaning the same way - I'm getting into digital photography and imaging a bit, with some gaming. No music though - that's what my stereo is for.
But who knows? Maybe later.

I noticed my new machine has a 'Fire Wire' connection - a new option, but for what? I haven't investigated it yet.

[silentknight]

BRG3, I would look at www.newegg.com instead of Tiger direct. They use much less rebates than tiger, and their prices are ususally about the same as tiger's after rebate price.

[Chris]

Hey BRG3,
NewEgg is great...but if you really want to save money on the parts you will need ( hard drive, ram, DVD burner, video cards) I suggest checking out a site called fatwallet.com
People talk about the best deals at the time and how to get the most back with the rebates and such.

I would compare tigerdirect to newegg. I would be looking at a higher end motherboard and video card. I recommend ATI for the video card. I would get at least 1 gig of ram with the type of setup you are looking at.

I would also recommend an Antec case, they should come with a powersupply made by them and they are some of the best power supplies I have ever seen. Reliable and they help your parts not get fried.

Check out these two cases. I have the Sonata one, but if I was going to get another one I would get this one


I also have an AMD 64 Processor. I have had mine for the last year, and I love it. The reliability and speed they have come to have is a lot more than I expected. You might think they are a bit pricey, but *knock on wood* I have had nothing but awesome results from mine.

If you have any other questions/comments post here, or shoot me a PM.

Good luck.

[Shaun]

actually Tiger has some great machines -- have you looked at some of the gaming grade machines for what you are doing they would handle all your needs.

[ruger22com]

forget all that build yer own junk (I have built many myself) and get a sony vaio....I have two and they are amazing.
You can an amazing deal at ubid.com if you are careful and don't go overboard on bidding. these are mostly demos or "window display" computers 100% reburbished and guarenteed by sony. I got two $2,000 systems for $700! Just do a little research so you know which model is the best to bid on for what you do! (most have dvd burners and big hard drives)
When I first got mine, I opened em up, and there was not even a drop of dust inside..and you could smell the ozone when I first fired them up for a few days..a sign that they had never even been turned on before for more than a few minutes.
bob :jaw:

[BattleRifleG3]

I'm through with buying complete systems. You guys who know me know that I know what I want and trying to make someone else's machine what I want it to be is just not going to cut it. With a VAIO I'd sink over a grand into a machine that I'd STILL want to upgrade. And I'm sure there would be conflicts with the upgrades.

No, I considered building my last computer and now wish I had. I'm not making that mistake again. Athlon 64 is probably how I'll go, considering the system bus speed is almost as fast as the processor. I'm debating between the 1600MHz Socket 754 and the 2000MHz socket 939. I think that's how it works anyway.

I think USB is trying to take over the world. Thing about monitors though is will it need to be set up first before sending the monitor signal along USB? Somehow I really think the VGA port is better, even if I have to plug in an AGP card.

Talked to GunGeek today, who's built a computer or two, and he didn't know the answers to many of these either. I think I'm going to say screw PCI Express and make sure whatever I get is AGP.

Another thing I'm trying to figure out is how I should do graphics, ie should I get a separate capture card and video card and TV output card, or should I get as many of those integrated as possible? If I do stuff separately, I'll be looking at using up at the very least three PCI slots (not including adding extra USB and firewire ports) and possibly 4 or more front end drive bays. I'm definitely going to need a BIG motherboard and BIG case. One thing I don't want is a wierdo gamer type case though. I want it plain with lots of bays. Interestingly enough, the cases I want don't seem to cost much. The ones Chris suggested look nice, and would probably be a good idea if I needed to lock it up, but I'm looking a little more budget minded.

When you say robust power supply, BD, how many watts are you talking about? Some come with 350 or so and some come with 425.

[silentknight]

I'd say 425w would be an absolute minimum for the amount of drives your talking about. Also, I wouldn't give up on PCI Express so fast, a couple years down the road when you start to think about upgrading an AGP graphics card, you will be hard pressed to find a fast one (by tomorow's standards).

[BattleRifleG3]

Ah, so PCI express is replacing AGP? I thought AGP was the new thing...

[BattleRifleG3]

I'd swear that the folks designing these motherboards and packages are retards. They never package good things together. I'm looking to get a MB with 6 PCI slots and Firewire. Only one board has both, and it only has two RAM slots. And they never package that MB with the 3400 Athlon 64 Socket 754.

"Today's letter is... BONG!!!"

[BattleRifleG3]

Ok, latest questions:
Is there any compatibility concern or functional difference between motherboards listed as VIA or SiS and such? Or 8T800 and 8M800 or so?

And Serial ATA stuff... does it work the same way as IDE ATA, like can I have my primary hard drive connected to the Serial ATA only?

[BattleRifleG3]

And yet another: Would there be any significant advantage to going Socket 939 over 754? Seems as though there's a higher system bus. Everywhere but Tigerdirect says it's 1000MHz over 800MHz, Tiger says it's 2000 over 1600. Any idea why Tiger doubles the ratings? If it's 2000 MHz, then that's faster than the lowest Socket 939 processor, which is 1800MHz. Wouldn't make sense in that case.

[wirehunt]

If your going to do a lot of image work, the bigger the better on HD and ram, I do a bit of stuff with photo's and that's the two thing's to look at with them. That and powered USB the more the better, I've got four camera's and three of them need powered USB plus all the other stuff that runs on it now.

[Chris]

BRG3-
PCI Express is the latest thing. It offers some of the best graphic edit, and gaming features around. Its also the most expensive. It might be a good idea to have this an option on the motherboard, if you just want to get an AGP card at the moment.

You have to be sure to get the right motherboard that supports PCI-Express, and the correct memory. I know Intel boards take PCI-E and DDR2 for certain boards, amd is slightly more flexible...so do more research!

The 754 is the old 64 bit AMD. the 939 is the newer improved version. I would get a VIA Motherboard.

I would only put a powersupply that had at least 400Watts of power in it. Again, this is crucial to the dependability of your machine, don't skimp on this part.

I built several for people using giant Antec server cases, and one rare occasions a server case that was almost 3 feet tall.


If you want me to look into a nice mobo, and such let me know.

[Gunnie Ed]

http://www.newegg.com/

[BattleRifleG3]

Ok, definition here - mobo? Oh wait... motherboard, right?

I think I found a satisfactory case that's 2 feet tall and has 5 external drive bays. Also talked a little with Gungeek tonight, who explained that two IDE ports go farther than I thought. I think the motherboard I picked is VIA. Costs are adding up though and I'm wondering if 1.8GHz Socket 754 will be adequate. I've had the feeling RAM and system bus will matter more than CPU speed. Yes, no? It would basically be half again as much for half again as much speed, ie $175 or so for 2.4GHz as opposed to $115 for 1.8GHz. Any compelling reason to go Socket 939, for which the motherboard choices are less and the same speeds of processors cost more?

For graphigs, I'm really not warming up to this PCI express. I have a feeling AGP will still be the standard for a while. Plus, I don't plan to put extreme amounts of new hardware and software in repeatedly. Just need the space for it all to add up. My old Packard Bell P200MMX has done pretty darn well for several years with upgrades, and can still do things my HP Athlon XP cannot (because they don't make some stuff that they used to.) As I said before, my kingdom for an ISA slot...

BTW, what would be the last type of "mobo" that would have an ISA slot, ie what sort of processors would it take and such? Like might there be a motherboard with an ISA AND AGP slot? Possibly for a Pentium III?

I really appreciate all the help, guys. Slowly but surely this plan is coming together.

[BattleRifleG3]

Never mind previous... Now I'mlooking at options that have an ISA slot. My choice of sound card is an ISA...

Here's a motherboard I'm currently looking at. It would unfortunately require that I switch to a Pentium :/ But I really want ISA, PCI, and AGP slots, and this one also supports a fast bus and DDR RAM.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813180072

It would support an 800 MHz system bus and a P4 3.0 GHz (best specs for the buck on that bus speed and socket).

But I'm an Athlon man... :/

The board and CPU combo would probably be twice as much as the Athlon 64 I was looking to build, though I'd get an extra GHz or so for it. All that for ISA and non-integrated sound and video. Hmm.

[Apollyon67]

I have always liked athlon myself, just found out why I need to rethink that position. It seems that Celeron has more internal memory and works better for grafics. My buddy built two identical machines with one of each processor. He says its about 20% faster than the Athlon. He was also an Athlon guy. Just some info for you.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Apollyon67

I have always liked athlon myself, just found out why I need to rethink that position. It seems that Celeron has more internal memory and works better for grafics. My buddy built two identical machines with one of each processor. He says its about 20% faster than the Athlon. He was also an Athlon guy. Just some info for you.

Celeron is no where close to the AMD 64 bit even on a bad day.