[dhermesc]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialRe...20050823a.html



The federal agency that regulates U.S. gun dealers stands accused, along with at least three Virginia law enforcement agencies, of trying to shut down legal gun shows through alleged intimidation of gun buyers and sellers. The law enforcement organizations also allegedly broke the law by sharing gun buyers' information with members of the public.

Annette Gelles, owner of gun show sponsor Showmasters.us, told Cybercast News Service that at least 30 agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) along with nearly 500 Virginia State Police, Henrico County Police and Richmond City Police officers were assigned to the ATF operation targeting her gun show on Aug. 13 and 14 at the Richmond International Raceway and Fairground Complex, outside Richmond, Va.

later in the story:

Gelles explained that, when gun dealers took the paperwork to the Virginia State Police on-site office to complete the background checks on prospective buyers, ATF agents copied the names, home addresses and telephone numbers of the applicants.

Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, told Cybercast News Service that he has received numerous complaints alleging that as handgun buyers were waiting for their National Instant Check System (NICS) background investigations to be completed, ATF was secretly conducting the so-called "residency checks."

According to the complaints he received, Van Cleave said officers were dispatched to the homes of the prospective gun buyers to speak with family members, asking for example: "Gee, did you know your husband was going to a gun show today? Do you have his cell phone number? Did you know he was buying a gun?

"If people weren't home they, in some cases, went to neighbors" to ask the same questions, Van Cleave said.



Title 18 Section 923 of the U.S. Code concerns the licensing of gun dealers and appears to support Van Cleave's position. It contains the following restrictions on the information collected during the process of a gun purchase:

"(g)(3)(B) Except in the case of forms and contents thereof regarding a purchaser who is prohibited by [federal law] from receipt of a firearm, the department of State police or State law enforcement agency or local law enforcement agency of the local jurisdiction shall not disclose any such form or the contents thereof to any person or entity, and shall destroy each such form and any record of the contents thereof no more than 20 days from the date such form is received."

[Rufus Rhastus J]

these people should be shot on sight. They are vilest form of person and deserve nothing more than the sword. most probably, they are democraps. It's no wonder, at all, they got 500 low class cops to protect them from what they know they deserve, :joker:

[BattleRifleG3]

Sounds like a state vs fed lawsuit in the making.

They've been sitting on my dealer's license renewal for months. They obviously don't mind hurting legitimate gun businesses. For pete's sake, my dealer sells nothing but sporting arms to everyone but me.

I'm highly convinced that an incredibly large number of employees of that agency are useless morons propped up by a 70 year old useless agency.

How's that for non-PC, Rufus?

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

I don't believe this story as the Bush administration supports second amendment rights.

:insane:

[Rave]

Not bad G3,telling it like it is is usually the best policy.

[BattleRifleG3]

Quote:       Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

I don't believe this story as the Bush administration supports second amendment rights. :insane:

Bush has executive authority, but it would take a lot of specific attention to that agency to change their policies and frankly to replace, rehire, and retrain most of the organization. It would take multiple major scandals to revamp them like necessary. This should be just such a suit.

[Dennis]

When Home land security was being formed there was Real talk of streamlining federal law enforcement and haveing the justice department absorb the Batfe.
Some one with some BIG political horsepower squashed the idea.
I have had several personal dealings with the Batfe as a gun dealer.
They will lie right to your face, With a straight face too.
if you correct them or shame an agent you have an enemy for life, and they are not above vendetta and revenge, they are very much like a gang, writ large.
They Do not care.
There is a culture in the organization that is just BAD.
This example sounds extreme but To me with my previous experience it fits with all their previous activitys.
somehow the Batfe seems to think that haveing a firearm is immoral and completly wrong, and that THEY are the organization that has been tasked with eradicating all the firearms and firearm owners.

We are wasteing Billions of dollars every year because we have competing federal law enforcement agencies all trying to enforce the same laws.

If the Batfe catches you with drugs do thet turn you over to the DEA?.... no.
if the justice department catches someone with illegal expolsive do the turn you over to the batfe? no....
So
we have lots of overlap massive overlap and the batfe is the worst.
they are on a crusade to intimidate and cow everyone buying or owning a firearm.
its silly
but they do it.

[BattleRifleG3]

Some people out there I suspect are on the payroll of satan.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Quote:       Originally Posted by BattleRifleG3

Sounds like a state vs fed lawsuit in the making. They've been sitting on my dealer's license renewal for months. They obviously don't mind hurting legitimate gun businesses. For pete's sake, my dealer sells nothing but sporting arms to everyone but me. I'm highly convinced that an incredibly large number of employees of that agency are useless morons propped up by a 70 year old useless agency. How's that for non-PC, Rufus?

No, not nearly as non-PC as you should be but, I note on further posts you are getting better. As for the slime balls, they act like they do because we don't shoot enough of them when they come around. like the mountain folks blasted the revenewers. They all swore an oath to protect the constitution yet, they attempt to deny all that right they swore to uphold. Traitors and scum....the sword for them all. :joker: They don't answer to anyone so it's no surprise they act like little dictators.

[Rave]

Read "Unintended Consequences",scary. :joker: :nod:

[ruger22com]

Something of this story really smells fishy. WHY were the dealers even talking to the state authorities? is this due to some weird local law?
heck, here is bama, If I sell a gun to a customer (gun show or not), the ONLY contact with anyone other than myself (batf form and info into my bound book which stays in my safe) is a call on my cell phone to nics for an instant background check....that is it..period. So what are these other people doing getting involved?

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Abuseing thier authourity because everyone, includeing me, is scared shi#less of them. It matter naught who is right if they toss you in jail ,you are just guilty. period. If they kill you, you are just dead. no questions asked for either outcome. both outcomes bad.

[Rave]

There ya' go again,Ruf.
Man,ya just gotta take it a wee bit easier before ya blow a gasket!
How about givin' G3 a break,he can't help it if the Katz an' Jammer kids are nippin' at his heels. He's trying to do a good job,and in these trying times it ain't always easy!
I suggest that we get together and down a couple of chill pills and wash 'em down with some good cold Mic-Ultra,that way we can keep the carbs down and still enjoy!
Above all,don't take things too seriously,I have learned that it is not a good idea to,attracts too many folks that are of differing opinions and if you don't agree withthem they take exception and can get a bit testy.
So,once again,chill out and let them get the ulcers,you won't change anything anyway.
Besides,you get 34 mpg in your little Kia Kar,so you will always have enough to get gas and a cold one,watch the TV,and listen to the howling going on outside. :cheer:

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

I don't believe this story as the Bush administration supports second amendment rights. :insane:

That's the funniest thing I've read tonight...

[BattleRifleG3]

Ha, my Hyundai gets 38mpg! Take that, Kia bum!

As far as being non-PC goes, I think PC is what those who argue recreationally call those who don't, at least on this forum. I can't think of a more conservative bunch than us, and we're not afraid to say it.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Quote:       Originally Posted by BattleRifleG3

Ha, my Hyundai gets 38mpg! Take that, Kia bum! As far as being non-PC goes, I think PC is what those who argue recreationally call those who don't, at least on this forum. I can't think of a more conservative bunch than us, and we're not afraid to say it.

your hyndia car gets better mileage than my kia car! Now, i'm really mad! one can never be too non-pc. :joker:

[BattleRifleG3]

There's politically correct, there's what's actually correct, and then there's Rufus. :insane: :drink: :guitar: :spaceship :cheer:

[Rufus Rhastus J]

[QUOTE=BattleRifleG3]There's politically correct, there's what's actually correct, and then there's Rufus.


you finally get it! :joker:

[Lonegun1894]

how about this for non PC... my truck gets about 15mpg, and that's on good days when i stay off the gas. Seems like that's what it gets when it's parked with the engine not running too sometimes.

And as far as the feds go with the way they get out of hand, um, well, *cough* Waco, *cough* Ruby Ridge* cough*. Yall hear an echo in here or something?

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Actually, yes...I do hear that sound too! I thought the voices only spoke to me. Besides all that, my Kia car is just plain cool! And he called me a bum! Now i'm really mad! Just because my Kia car was thousands cheaper and, no doubt, faster! Better milage can only mean less go! Take that Hyundia boy!