Welcome to the New GunAndGame.com
Send Feedback - Back to the Old GunAndGame

Go Back   Gun and Game Forums > General > The Powder Keg

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-19-2005, 09:58 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Stopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kansass
Posts: 2,212
Images: 1
Very Interesting

A Federated Republic or One Nation?
by Benedict D. LaRosa
by Benedict D. LaRosa



The controversy over the words “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance overshadows an old, long-forgotten issue regarding the Pledge.

When it was first published in 1892, the Pledge did not contain the words “under God.” Congress added these words in 1954 as a Cold War response to atheistic communism. Nevertheless, many Americans originally viewed the Pledge with suspicion. Why? Because of the then-foreign concept of pledging allegiance to one nation.

To Americans of the late 19th century, “allegiance” was a feudal concept denoting subservience to a master. Americans considered themselves sovereigns, not subjects. They feared that the natural supremacy of the individual over his government, as reflected by the Declaration of Independence and guaranteed in the constitutions of the United States and of the several states, might eventually be overturned by the ideas expressed in the Pledge. They, unlike so many Americans today, understood that those who exercise the instruments of government – public servants – feel more comfortable ruling than serving.

The Pledge’s words also smacked of nationalism, which Americans of that period considered, well, un-American. Their objection to nationalism seems strange today, but to Americans of 1892 it was a dangerous concept.

Although they saw themselves as separate and distinct from foreign peoples and powers, internally they considered themselves a collection of independent states united by a compact called the Constitution of the United States. “One nation” implied that the states were merely subdivisions of a national government, which Americans of that era knew was not the case. Pledging allegiance to one nation, they knew, would undermine the concept of federalism and threaten constitutional government.

Their suspicions were justified, for the intent of the Pledge’s author, a socialist named Francis Bellamy, was to support the secular education of the public-school system and efforts by the National Education Association (NEA) to counter the growing influence – especially among immigrants – of the Catholic Church’s parochial schools. Bellamy and the NEA felt that inculcating a sense of nationalism into America’s children would serve their purposes.

The Mexican-American War of 1846–48 had given the idea of nationalism a boost. The Civil War (1861–65) gave the concept additional impetus. But the more accurate description of that latter conflict – the War Between the States – contains within its wording the concept of state citizenship rather than national citizenship. The vast majority of the military units on both sides carried state designations – the 54th Massachusetts, the 4th Alabama, et cetera. When Robert E. Lee refused command of the Union army and resigned his commission in 1861, he told the commanding general of the Army, Winfield Scott, he did so because he could not raise a sword against his country. The country he referred to was the commonwealth of Virginia. Scott, a fellow Virginian, understood. Prior to the Civil War, Americans commonly referred to the Union as “These United States.” After the war, the term “The United States” came into more common usage.

Bouvier’s Law Dictionary (Eighth Edition, 1914, p. 2297), distinguishes between a national and a federal government:

National Government. A government of a single state or nation united as a community by what is termed the social compact, and possessing complete and perfect supremacy over persons and things so far as they can be made the lawful objects of civil government. A federal government is distinguished from a national government by its being the government of a community of independent and sovereign states united by compact.
(Although earlier editions of Black’s Law Dictionary agree with Bouvier’s definitions, the fifth edition published in 1979 blurs the distinction.)

Early court decisions reflected this difference. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Chisholm. v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 419, 1 L.Ed. 440 (1794),

The question to be determined is, whether this State ... is amenable to the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court of the United States? This question, important in itself, will depend on others, more important still; and may, perhaps, be ultimately resolved into one, no less radical than this – “do the People of the United States form a Nation?”

... From the law of nations, little or no illustration of this subject can be expected. By that law the several States and Governments spread over our globe, are considered as forming a society, not a NATION.
In McIlvaine v. Coxe’s Lessee, (1804), the Supreme Court refers to New Jersey as a country:

[It] is a recognized principle that a man may owe allegiance to two countries at the same time, and therefore may lawfully have the intention of owing allegiance to both Great-Britain and New-Jersey.
Not long after the Pledge’s publication, the popular Spanish-American War of 1898 influenced upcoming generations of Americans to see themselves as one people under a national government. By 1905, the state militias were reorganized into the National Guard and put under federal control.

During World War I, some state units even lost their state designations. For example, the 69th New York became the 165th U.S. Infantry; the 4th Ohio became the 166th U.S. Infantry; the 4th Alabama became the 167th U.S. Infantry; and the 3rd Iowa became the 168th U.S. Infantry.

The march of nationalism has hardly been impeded ever since. True to the fears of earlier Americans, it has inflicted a serious blow to federalism and the Constitution which gave it birth.
__________________
They should have stopped at "Congress shall make no law"
Stopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2005, 02:02 PM   #2
Super Moderator
 
BattleRifleG3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Western PA
Posts: 11,467
Images: 13
Perhaps then the addition of "under God" meant that we were one nation not by our political allegiance but by our belonging to a people brought together only by the providence of God and with freedom to worship Him that is not controlled to the government. Ie "One nation under God" as opposed to "One nation under centralized political rule."

Another issue with the term nation is that we have associated it with being sysonimous with the state. Nation historically has not meant a political unit but a group of people. In the Bible, the word translated into "nation" is ethnos, from which we get our word ethnic. Now it's not translated "races" but it most certainly doesn't mean "state". Phrases include "You are a Holy nation, a royal priesthood, a people belinging to God", referring to in the New Testament to Christians, who even at the beginning were not only Jews. A line from Revelation "Nation will rise up against nation" doesn't necessarily mean governments, but groups of people, cultures, races, coalitions, interests.

Given the current peaning of nation, we should consider the historical "nation" to be synonymous with a people. Until the past couple hundred years, states generally were comprised of one people or another, ie English in England, French in France, Germans in Germany, as opposed to the current cosmopolitan nature of many countries due to a globalization more typical of an empire, ie Rome, which by the traditional use of "nation" was certainly not "one nation", but a governing of many nations under one imperial government.
__________________
Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
BattleRifleG3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2005, 02:45 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
burd1959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: burton michigan
Posts: 608
its scary that under god is a issue when we can lose our hhome to taxes and nobody cares
burd1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2005, 06:13 PM   #4
Mr. Fixit
 
toolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: abilene,tx
Posts: 5,856
Blog Entries: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by burd1959
its scary that under god is a issue when we can lose our hhome to taxes and nobody cares
How 'bout we change it to "I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the takers of my property, for whatever reason they deem suitable". Seriously, the pledge is pretty controversial considering this country was founded as an answer to tyranny. I am just about as big a supporter of the U.S. as you'll find anywhere, but our policies and views have changed radically from the days where the citizens actually thought for themselves. I've never really been comfortable with the pledge as it is too similar to every pledge of loyalty used by every enemy we've ever had, ie: a pledge is a pledge is a pledge...I much prefer the singing of God Bless America.
__________________
cosmoline is an aphrodisiac!
toolman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2005, 08:23 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Apollyon67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 2,238
Images: 17
a slippery slope indeed!
__________________
"To err is human, to repent divine; to persist devilish." Ben Franklin
Apollyon67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2005, 12:00 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 886
I can take the Pledge either way, but I learned it without the "Under GOD" words. I find it very rythmic, and easier to say and remember, in its original form, and it becomes somewhat broken with the addition. At the time Eisenhower added it, I was a little upset, but I learned to live with it.

I think that if the "NONBELIEVER" guy really believes what he has protested about, then he should not take and use our money, because if I am correct every bit of coinage and paper money has "In GOD we trust", on it!

`
Gyrene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2005, 12:08 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Otter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 981
Images: 6
Doesn't it go something like, "...one nation under surveilance with liberty and justice for those who can afford it." ??

"Life is too important to be taken seriously."
__________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Otter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005, 08:55 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
burd1959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: burton michigan
Posts: 608
Hmmm Send Me All Your Money With God Wrote On It For Proper Distruction And Disposal
burd1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005, 09:15 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Rufus Rhastus J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America
Posts: 6,339
Images: 1
Gee, even I'm not that bitter with government.
__________________
"They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf
Rufus Rhastus J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005, 10:14 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Rave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 7,065
Thumbs down

Hummmm,with this "eminent domain" crap we can loose our home even if we do pay our taxes,it just gets better every day.
__________________
USAF '62-'66

.
Rave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
interesting

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:26 PM.


[Output: 83.80 Kb. compressed to 78.72 Kb. by saving 5.08 Kb. (6.07%)]