[myarmor]

Ok first off, I'm not trying to start a war between the loyalist. But I want some honest opinions as to a target rifle in a 30 cal. I see strengths and weeknesses on both sides, but I love them both.
Both have been used by snipers for a long time, and target shooters alike. I see the weekness of the 30-06 as being long action allowing for more flex on the action. Many refer to the 30-06 as Vulnerable..Why?
And the strength of having a 308 being short action, and over all stiffer. What I am lacking in is knowledge in BC. Also too the advantages of subsonic...Like to learn more on this as well.
I remember reading that no other cartridge has won more competitions than the 308 besides the 6mm. How true that is I am not totally sure.
So what do you guys think. Strengths and weeknesses of both the 30-06 and 308 in a target rifle?

[BattleRifleG3]

The 308 is inherently accurate, being shorter and less tapered. However, what really matters is quality of manufacture. Simple fact is that more accurate rifles are made for the 308 than the 30-06, and more match ammo is made for the 308 than the 30-06, and it's more affordable too.

The inherent differences are small but the edge goes to the 308. As far as how to practically get the most accurate rifle at the best price, your best options are also in 308.

Now you COULD probably set up a 30-06 that is more accurate than you. But there would be no advantages over the 308 options that would cost tremendously less except for more power. If you want more power, the 300 WSM is also being chambered in many accurate rifles, as is the 300 Win Mag. Again, nothing wrong with the 30-06 for that, just that they don't make 30-06 target rifles.

[myarmor]

I was thinking of this Savage as a possibile option, and later down the road with a custom barrel.
http://www.savagearms.com/112bvss.htm

[BattleRifleG3]

Looks like you got a good choice of rifle there. You could probably save money going to a similar 308 model, but I'm sure there are plenty of advantages to your choice. I believe Federal makes a 30-06 match load.

Still, you'll have more options and probably lower cost doing pretty much the same thing with 308. However, if you have reasons for wanting a 30-06, this rifle should serve you well. I've gotten MOA out of a standard weight Savage in 300 RUM.

[practical]

I've had an itch for a 30-378 Wby for a while now. When it comes to accuracy, more is better right?

Actually, I think the flinching it will induce is gonna ruin me if I ever get it.

I'd say 308 for a target rifle. There are more rifle choices and ammo is much cheaper. 30.06 is too much to just go plinking with. Unless you have a Garand.

[BattleRifleG3]

The wear of such an extreme rifle would make it inaccurate pretty fast. Not to mention ammo cost being prohibitive. A 300 RUM and 300 Wby are almost as good unless you have a very very long barrel, ie LONGER than 30 inches.

[rebel727]

For an off the shelf gun go with the .308. A .308 isn't at all finicky about what it eats. Haven't seen one yet change zero with different brands. Yes Federal makes match grade ammo and it's the best match grade you can get. I can't handload anything better especially for the money. A 30-06 is too finicky about what it eats. You can build an 06 to out perform a .308 and most pro target shooters have their .308's rebarreled and tweaked but for off the shelf you can't beat it. As for the 30-378 forget it. You can't get enough barrel length to utilize it. Most of it's energy is wasted. Muzzle blast is horriffic and if fired across the hood of a truck will break the windshield(saw it happen)Also ammo 3 years ago was $89.00 per 20. if you want to fully utilize the 30 caliber try the wildcat 30-338(handload only) in a 26 inch barrel. you can go with the .308 Norma Mag which is close to the same thing but ammo is high. Neither one burn barrels as bad as the .300 Win Mag.

[Dale]

I would think that accuracy would depend, in part, in the platform of the rifle and the quality of the ammo.

What I'm thinking, for example, is that if I were to compare my 30.06 bolt actioned Springfield 1903-A3s with my .308 Cetme I would find the Springfields would consistantly shoot better because of the bolt action versus the semi-auto action.

Also, in terms of my 30.06s, I took two accuarate rifles and improved them greatly by tailoring a reload that each liked as compared to mil-surp and commercial ammo that was not quite as accurate.

Accuracy, to me, is a combination of many things which, all put together, results in that accuracy; least of which is the element of the shooter himself.

So, to me, accuracy is subjective and contingent on all of the various elements coming together.

I suppose that if you asked a group of people to define accuracy you would get as many varied responses and what is an accurate shooting round for one person might not be accurate for another simply because of the firearm they are shooting, the person himself, shooting conditions, the ammo, the target, etc.

Does my point make sense?

[rebel727]

Yes it makes a lot of sense Dale and you're right. I was talking about off the shelf guns and ammo. I didn't even consider an auto tho.(don't see many autos at matches)

[BattleRifleG3]

I was assuming from the beginning that the considered guns would be bolt action. That Savage is the only bull barreled 30-06 I know of, while there are more heavy barreled 308s than I can name. So if that one gun and one match loading by Federal aren't your thing, 308 would probably be the better choice simply for selection.

As I said above, the inherent differences don't really matter that much compared to the quality of manufacture of the ammo. For example, the 300 Wby Mag SHOULD be inaccurate by design, but Weatherby ammo and rifles are anything but. Also, 7.62x39mm is not the most accurate cartridge shape, but a bolt gun using domestic ammo will shine with all the Sporting rounds.

[Snakebite]

Inherently accurate. I hate that term. Tell me why and I might change my mind.
A .17 caliber is accurate as is .50 caliber in the right hands. What in the world makes one gun "inherently" acurate?

[mr mom]

myarmor: i have the savage 12bvss in .308.. and i couldnt ask for anything better. i have used it for deer hunting if i dont go to far from the truck , but my kids have used it for sil. matches... sighting it in at the rams 550 yds the kids can keep 4 shots on the end of a 4x4 that was used for sight in... i have played around with diffrent weight bullets and mine dosent like anything over 150 gr. so far... my pet load that i use most of the time is a speer 125 tnt. with 47 gr of imr 4064... at 100 yds i can keep 5 shots on a dime size dot. it will do it all day every day.

my 2 sons have used it in back to back relays and it didnt seam to bother it a bit.

[myarmor]

I am looking for a Bolt Action for my target rifle. I love the semi auto's and perhaps one day will own a Garand, but that's not on my top priority list. I want a full fledged target rifle that I can take up to at least 800 yard shots with. Around where I live I am hard pressed to find that distance to shoot, but non the less, that is what I want, and I do know of a few places I can take that kind of shot here. I want a capable rifle, and a capable caliber for the distance. And I know the 308 and 30-06 are both very capable. Later down the road I do plan on making a custom rifle, so I am kinda leaning toward a Remington 700 action for such. Though they don't offer a 30-06 in a target config. I would have to take the long way around and go straight for a custom rifle, in which I don't have the total money for that at present.
So I started looking at the Savages and the Model 12bvss. I know that the Savage action might not be as stiff as the 700, but non the less I know it is a most capable action, and many a target rifle have been made from it. There are a lot of happy Savage owners out there, as are Remington. Also too, I have heard that many people are worried about the quality issue with Remington as of late. But that is a whole new issue I suppose.
So I guess the question is, other than choices of ammo and factory rifles, why not the 30-06? I have heard some say it's the perfect medium between the 308 and 300WinMag ballistically.

[BigJake]

Myarmor, I chose .308, not because I dissaprove at all with the 30-06. My basis was on the fact that I know other calibers would be great, but the 308 is tried and true and I have 2 FALs that just push me to keeping the order of the ammo. One note about the 30-06 is that it has the most variance in bullet wt, per grains. giving you a broader spectrum, but 308 is not far behind in selection. I know 762x51 surplus is not the most accurate but if you feel you need to use it one day in a pinch remember to get a replacement firing pin spring. (or it might take you 2 or 3 times to bust the primer) That probably in itself negates the fact that you are building a Target rifle... so enough said, I will stop typing.

[practical]

Does anybody have any experiences/oppinions on the 300RUM? I'm always idly seeking a . .30 magnum. Not because I really need one. Just because.

I do have a line on a Remington 700 PSS in 308 though. It seems like an excellent gun for the money for just a target/plinking .30 BA. Is it really that much better than just a regular 700 in 308?

[lefty o]

for general purpose, the .308 is a fine choice. if you were to pick one particular discipline of target shooting the choices may be entirely different. the 30-06 is a good cartridge, but for all out accuracy it is no where near the top choice. :flame:

[BattleRifleG3]

300 RUM is fine. Not as easy to find or feed as 300 Wby though, which is pretty much equivalent. Thye design of the RUM is more accurate but the Weatherby ammo andrifles are top notch and probably more accurate than most of us.

But the RUM is beinf chambered in a few heavy barrel target rifles, like the Rem 700Police. My basic Savage in 300 RUM gets MOA.

[rebel727]

Myarmor, if you want a rifle to shoot now and build a serious target rifle on later I'd have to go with a Winchester model 70 in 30-06. Building a target rifle isn't cheap tho. You'll need to buy a top end barrel such as Obermeyer or Krieger, preferably with flutes to dissipate heat. Krieger barrels have shallow rifling which gives less bullet distortion hence a lil more accuracy. However they're shorter lived. I have an Obermeyer sporter on my F.N.98 and it's a lot more accurate than I am. Next you'll want an adjustable target stock. I prefer the heavier laminated stocks, they help absorb recoil. Next you'll need a custom trigger such as Jewel or Timney set at 3 oz. Optics you can take a lil slack on. I know I'm gonna take flak for this but the fact is you can put a 1500.00 scope on a 500.00 rifle and it won't make it shoot sub MOA but a 500.00 scope on a 2000.00 rifle will shoot sub MOA all day long. As long as it can handle the recoil and hold zero it's all you need. If ya got the bucks to spend by all means go for the hi dollar scope but if ya gotta hedge somewhere do it on the scope not the barrel.

[myarmor]

I thought about a Model 70. Though I have heard some bad reports as of late with crappy barrel quality from Winchester. I do like the Model 70, very smooth and if I'm not mistaken Hancock used one before he got a Rem 700 for sniping.
I was thinking about going with Lilja down the road come time to start building and really investing. Scope-yeah I wasn't going to skimp on. I have as of late with a few of my projects and other small arms, but when it comes time to build a custom job, it's all buisness. I suppose the reason I am leaning toward the -06 is that I already have one, but it's strickly a hunting rifle..not target by any means. And I don't want to "step down" as it were by possibily going with a 308. And by no means am I trash talking the 308. I have shot several and have always been a fan and aware of the reputation it has made for it's self.

[rebel727]

The .308 is a fine gun and has won lots of 500 yd. matches but for extended range the handloaded 06 has a lil more going for it.