[EZ1]

When Momy leaves the Kids in the car to go play the Poker machines, (where poker machines are legal, it is not a crime to play) the crime lies in the fact the mother is neglecting her kids, and the Kids are VICTIMS, so therefore no such thing as a victimless crime

[Shaun]

Lottery = stupid tax

I look at this as the same as going to a casino if you think you are going to win look at the casino industry -- they wouldn't be in business if everybody won.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/index.shtml

Quote:      

Originally posted by Logansdad http://stopthedrugwar.org/index.shtml

If we make murder legal, do you think it'll be less of a problem? Do you think making our government the biggest drug dealer in the world is a good idea? Do you think all of the civilized countries in the world are just nuts for making laws against drugs?

The problem of addiction in this country will increase geometrically if we legalize drugs.

[whirlwind]

well i am not for legalizing drugs , but yall have your view and i have mine and im not going to try and change anyones mind. all i know is that legal or not my children wont ever do them. (under penalty of death) but as for the criminals out gunning the cops i never understood why they just didnt arm the cops better? that has always escaped me. instead of spending a dollar to buy the cops whatever kinda gun it took to make them feel secure they try to take all ours away? just dont make sense.

Drug War Rant

One of the obstacles facing the movement to legalize certain drugs is the way we’re taught to look at laws. Laws are no longer the sanction that protects individuals and our unalienable rights in this country, but rather a statement of moral code, a way to “prove” that we are higher moral beings that look down on certain activities.

Many of those who wish the drug war to continue will concede that there has been no progress, even that there would be much less crime if it were to cease and certain drugs legalized, and yet they wish these laws to continue and to fight drugs, because they are “wrong.” They are “wrong” because to put a drug into your body is to slowly (or, in some circumstances, quickly) destroy something irreplaceable; human life.

Well, what about alcohol? What about tobacco, which is just as addictive as heroine or cocaine, and more harmful to your body than marijuana? For that matter, what about things like bungee jumping? Scuba diving? Those things are dangerous, too. Perhaps it’s not as dangerous as taking a hit of heroin, or perhaps, in some circumstances, more dangerous. Should we outlaw those activities?

No, say they, because that’s different than putting drugs into your body, which is “wrong.” Well, there are many people who think two people of the same gender having sex with one another is wrong, should we make a law against that?

(Oh, wait. We already have.)

There are people out there who consider drinking wrong, but no big outcry for a law against alcohol has occurred.

Oh, wait. It did, in the twenties. As any elementary school child could tell you (or one can hope, as the level of public education continues to decrease in quality), prohibition was a horrible failure, and created levels of crime that had never been seen before. As much as alcohol can destroy lives, prohibition destroyed countless more. Not to mention that prohibition didn’t stop drinking at all, it simply forced those who drank to find illegal ways to do it.

There are not many people left who would claim that prohibition was a good idea. Yet there are scores of people still who would insist that the war on drugs is a good thing, that we are winning it (we aren’t), and that it doesn’t matter anyway if we were losing it because we can’t just make drugs LEGAL, because that would mean that we APPROVED of drug users!

Well, guess what, news flash, that’s not what laws are for. Laws are meant for the survival of society, and if a law exists that causes more harm than good, it should be abolished. We’ve had so much evidence showing us that the drug war does just that; why is it that so many people choose to be so blind to how much harm it does, not just to the innocent bystander shot down by drug lords in an argument over turf in that crime-infested inner city neighborhood, and not just to the peaceful citizen arrested, put into jail and fined for willingly and knowledgably putting a chemical into their own body. Not just to those whose homes and cars are seized every day by the government, without even a warrant, without any guarantee that they will be able to get them back even if proven innocent (which also creates the backward, un-American precedent of being considered guilty before proven innocent).

This drug war does harm to everyone who is forced to give up their privacy in a school drug test, harm to everyone who has children and fears for their safety and well being, harm to everyone who one day will be stolen from, assaulted, raped, or murdered! For who is to say that the attacker would not have been caught, had the police had the manpower to do their actual job: investigating and arresting those who actually DO harm to others?

It is so much worse than “wrong” to allow the drug war to continue when it continually destroys countless more lives than it saves!

[whirlwind]

LD, i can tell by your posts about this subject that you have never had drugs affect anyone in your family's life and for that i thank god! but i have seen first hand what drugs have done to an ex-brother in law of mine and what drugs did to my own sister and her children and her numerous failed marriages. one thing you wont see on all the pro-drug sites is folks like my sister that started smoking pot when she was 16,and ran away in 1973 then came back in 80 hooked on every drug known to man. and you wont see folks like her first son who grew up in a home with his father because my sisters drug habbit consumed all parts of her life even the spots her children and her family were supposed to have. you also wont see people like my ex wifes brother,who started smoking pot at 14 and wound up in prison for 40 years. and you wont see people like me and the two daughters i have custody of. i lost my last wife to pot and my children lost their mother to it. now i hope and pray that you are never touched in these ways by drugs. but dont think drugs are a victimless crime because their not. granted not all people on drugs become hard core killers or anything else,but they are changed inside and the drugs take away everything they are,and they also take away peoples wives,mothers,husbands and children.

Quote:       Originally Posted by whirlwind

LD, i can tell by your posts about this subject that you have never had drugs affect anyone in your family's life

actually I lost an older brother to drinking..but there was no saving him anyway..he was self destructive (a pretty common trait I'm afraid)..he'd been drinking heavily since he was 14..he got drunk by the Chena River and drowned during breakup (when the ice on the river melts and starts flowing downriver) back in 92..my mother and stepfather smoke alot of pot (at least they used to)..but there is nothing that can be done to stop that behavior..my younger brother won't admit he's an alcoholic now..

[Oxford]

Whirlwind...I'm with you on your stand on drugs. When I was a classroom teacher I used to have a few students who fell into drug habits. Their behavior and lack of motivation created a downward spiral. Fortunately, I'm not aware of illegal drug useage in my immediate family but I'm not so nieve that I believe they haven't been around somewhere. But...having seen too many young people in public schools, where I spent a lot of my working career, throw their lives away because of drugs, has made me a strong opponent of legalizing their useage.

[whirlwind]

i agree ox, it is the most disgusting thing to see a childs life trashed by drugs

Quote:       Originally Posted by Klaus

Trivia Quiz: Anyone know the root of the word victim? Hint: it is the same as "vittles".

One who is harmed or killed by another: a victim of a mugging.
A living creature slain and offered as a sacrifice during a religious rite.
One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition: victims of war.
A person who suffers injury, loss, or death as a result of a voluntary undertaking: You are a victim of your own scheming.
A person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of: the victim of a cruel hoax.

Vic"tim\, n. [L. victima: cf. F. victime.] 1. A living being sacrificed to some deity, or in the performance of a religious rite; a creature immolated, or made an offering of.

Led like a victim, to my death I'll go. --Dryden.

2. A person or thing destroyed or sacrificed in the pursuit of an object, or in gratification of a passion; as, a victim to jealousy, lust, or ambition.

3. A person or living creature destroyed by, or suffering grievous injury from, another, from fortune or from accident; as, the victim of a defaulter; the victim of a railroad accident.

4. Hence, one who is duped, or cheated; a dupe; a gull. [Colloq.]

victim

n 1: an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance 2: a person who is tricked or swindled

[Oxford]

That sounds like Clinton denying his sexual acts strictly based upon metal gymnastics with words. That's pure B.S.

As I see it, a person can be a victim of their own choices. If, and only if he/she was the only one affected by those choices I might have a totally different stand on drug useage. But...others are involved in every case I've known about. It's like a large sinkhole gradually pulling everything down a bottomless pit with no hope unless someone reaches out and helps rescue the helpless victim. Most families want to help their loved ones out of personal tradgedy...but in spite of how much help they may give them, sometimes there's no hope.

No...I'll never be in favor of allowing illegal drug useage with no limits.