Strange ballcap in a surplus store

troy2000 · 11-21-2005, 09:40 PM

As I mentioned before in a Veteran's Day thread, I'm uncomfortable when people start making a fuss over my being a veteran. I don't expect to to be patted on the head for something that should simply be expected of me (I know. It's ungracious of me, and I should deal with it).

I'm also uncomfortable around what I would call "professional veterans." Those would be people who put in their time, then build the rest of their lives around remembering it. I can't help thinking that they need to find something for today and tomorrow to be passionate about instead.

Enough with the prelude. Today I walked into a very well-stocked surplus store. It had tons of gear and clothing that was genuine surplus, as well as lots of just "outdoorsy" stuff. But along one wall, they had every ballcap you could imagine that mentioned being a veteran: Operation Freedom Veteran; Gulf War Veteran; Operation Freedom AND Gulf War Veteran; Vietnam Veteran, WWII Veteran; Retired Army, Navy, Air Force or USMC; etc.

But the prize winner was one that said, in big capital letters, "PURPLE HEART" something or other (I don't remember the exact wording). Under that in smaller lettering it said, "Combat Wounded."

Am I the only one who thinks that is a Very Strange Ballcap? Personally, I'd rather get shot again than be caught dead wearing it...

jerry · 11-21-2005, 09:47 PM

to each his own I reckon. some people deal with things and express themselves in their own way. someone just created another outlet for individuals to make a choice to do that. now, if we lived in one of those extremely communist countries, they may not even allow that on the shelf. then, someone could go ahead and shoot me.

troy2000 · 11-21-2005, 10:21 PM

Actually, in the old communist Russia they made a big fuss over their WWII veterans. But the modern government has cut or stopped their pensions, I've been told. In a country as poor and as mismanaged as that one's been for untold generations, that's pretty serious stuff for the old boys, and it's a shame. It could literally be a matter of life and death to someone too old or infirm to work.

A little sidetrack here: the Russians have got to be the most inept rulers in the world. There are areas they ruled for a thousand years that don't even speak Russian. Can you imagine anyone else ruling people for that long without even managing to teach them the language, much less integrating them into their society and culture?

inuyasha · 11-21-2005, 10:35 PM

i agree troy... i always thought it was odd that people announced that they were shot in combat, i generally assumed that was something you would not care to admit. i suppose it is to show what sacrifice you personally made for the country but still... that would be like getting hit by a car to save a person in the street, just seems odd to have a shirt saying "i got hit by a car" ... just my thoughts..

gunssb · 11-21-2005, 10:43 PM

there is a HUGE difference between getting shot in combat for your country and getting hit by a car.

I'm not a soldier or never been one I have great respect for those who are/were - to voluntarily stand at the receiving end of a weapon must require immense dingleberries.

kind of funny incident but I was shooting some hot 8mm the other day and a bullet impacted at the top of the wooden target frame...it was shot to bits! I joked with our ol' rangemaster about how I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of that...he looked at me & said, son our boys *were* at the receiving end of that 8mm and it wasn't pretty...I just stood there for a second or two

troy2000 · 11-21-2005, 10:54 PM

Incidently, I don't want to be too hard on those "professional veterans" I mentioned. I'm fully aware that a lot of them are out there fighting for their fellow veterans, instead of just going to meetings and having parades. And the rest of us are better off for it

inuyasha · 11-21-2005, 11:08 PM

you have been misunderstanding me lately gunssb... i am overly simplifying the actions itself. trust me, i know and appreciate the differences, a large amount of my family and friends are vetrans. i agree though, it takes a LOT to be on the receiving end of those conflicts. one of the people i know had an enemy soldier stab him with the bayonet, step on him and try to take it off, and attempt to stab him again.

Outriderdark · 11-21-2005, 11:08 PM

I am not a vet.
I know many vets, however. I have much more respect for those like Troy who don't wear it on thier sleeve. Sometimes it makes those of us who didn't serve uncomfortable, because there was nothing for some of us to serve for.
I was born too late for VietNam. I grew up in the eighties and came of age in 1990 - when the military didn't want me. I got a GED when I was 17 so I could work to support my family since my parents were hit hard in the recession then (I know dumb move but you know how hindsight is.) I wasn't college bound or in college or have any college credits. I know, I tried to join and they wouldn't give me the time of day. This was the beginning of an era of military reductions and recruiters were pushed to find quality recruits, instead of quantity.
Desert Storm came and went in the blink of an eye.
Now they need recruits. I could still join (barely) but now I have a family of my own to feed and the military doesn't pay for sh*t. It's kept me up at night at times 'cause I feel like somethings coming down the pike that's gonna make Iraq look like Grenada and I would want to defend this nation.
Anyway, my point is that alot of us who haven't served but wanted to were just born at the wrong time. And sometimes the Uber-patriots with Purple Heart hats make me feel like I'm a poor excuse for an American. Maybe I am.

ducktapehero · 11-22-2005, 12:27 AM

I served my country and I'm proud of it. I didn't see combat but I did shatter my ankle at Hohenfels Germany. I'm a disabled veteran. And when people thank me it's great but the best way to honor and thank vets? Treat them how they deserve to be treated after they get out. I speak from experience, VA hospitals are a disgrace. It's a shame. And the problem is that the people in charge don't even think there's a problem. People on welfare get better medical care than our veterans.

NorCalAshnjikov · 11-22-2005, 04:27 AM

I am not a veteran (though I've had to keep my head down a few times),
but I don't think any actual veterans would buy a hat (cap) like that.
Maybe one that just say USMC ... but veteran? Its just too lame.

troy2000 · 11-22-2005, 08:42 AM

A lot of guys buy the Veteran or Retired Military caps. Go into any retirement community in the California desert and you'll see old geezers wearing them. I think it marks them as part of a social group, more than anything else.

But I've never seen one before like the Purple Heart cap I was talking about. I'd feel sorry for anyone wearing one. Not because they had gotten tagged in combat, but because their lives were so empty they needed the validation.

troy2000 · 11-22-2005, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducktapehero

I served my country and I'm proud of it. I didn't see combat but I did shatter my ankle at Hohenfels Germany. I'm a disabled veteran. And when people thank me it's great but the best way to honor and thank vets? Treat them how they deserve to be treated after they get out. I speak from experience, VA hospitals are a disgrace. It's a shame. And the problem is that the people in charge don't even think there's a problem. People on welfare get better medical care than our veterans.

My personal experiences were always the same: an incredibly long wait, then outstanding care by overworked people who really cared. My father's a disabled WWII vet, and he's also been treated extremely well over the years. I think they do the best they can with limited resources and manpower, at least out here in California and Arizona.

They desperately need more money, and the current administration should be ashamed of itself. The last head of the VA got canned for saying that the allotted budget was only about half what was needed. His replacement said the budget was just fine. And what happened? Congress had to scramble to pass an emergency appropriations bill when the VA ran out of money this year, just like the last guy got fired for saying it would.

I don't remember names and details, but I can look up the facts and back that up if I have to.

Dale · 11-22-2005, 10:20 AM

Being a veteran puts a person into a unique brotherhood.

Much like a fraternity or the brotherhood of LEOs and fire fighters.

And one of the side perks of that brotherhood is knowing that you experienced a period of time in sacrafice and provided a civic and patriotic service so that others would not have to.

If a person wants to tell society that he/she served by wearing an article of clothing then it's his/her right to do so.

In fact they have far more right to show their service than for others to condemn them for it.

Troy, I guess you'd think less of those drivers here in Arizona that have the Purple Heart license plate on their vehicle.

I salute every one that I see. For I know what traumatic thoughts they carry each day for us to be free.

I'm having a hard time finding the line you have drawn, Troy.

Does your post..and others..suggest that members, such as myself, of the VFW, the American Legion, DAV, etc. are insecure and they join just for the sake of bragging rights?

I'm not trying to start anything but I am trying to thoroughly understand what the difference is between wearing what one wishes and what one puts one their car, etc.

I see many vehicles with Marine Corp stickers, US Army stickers, etc. and that says to me the same...they served. And I often see past US Navy men wearing caps that broadcasts the ship they served on in the Persian Gulf and elsewhere.

I've see emblems where men and women say they are Korean or WW II veterans. I've seem the same emblems for Viet Nam vets.

I think it's great to see them and I thank them for their service.

In short, I might also think that it's gaudy wearing a notation that they were injured but, like I said, that person earned the right to wear that cap and I'll be danged if I will openly chastise him or her for wearing it.

Rave · 11-22-2005, 10:41 AM

Imo anyone who served our country has the right to wear a ball cap,t-shirt,or anything else that rings their chimes.
I served,but it's not my thing to wears things or have bumper stickers and auto tags,but to each his own,and I am respectful of those that choose either way,they have a right to show how proud they are of their accomplishment.
I salute all who served! :cheer: :right:

jerry · 11-22-2005, 10:42 AM

I gotta agree Dale.

I have Vet plates on my truck, I don't feel like a bad guy. If I had a PH would I buy the hat and T shirt? I don't know. If I did, I probably wouldn't were it to some places, it might make a good fishing hat. Always looking for a good fishing hat.

I don't understand what the big deal is.

OneInchGroup · 11-22-2005, 01:09 PM

Everybody deals with their life experiences according to their own set of quirks and whatever twists life has taken for them. For me, a PH hat would not be a first choice, but I've known a few guys for whom that particular experience was the one that turned their life in a whole new direction, sometimes to the good, and sometimes to the extreme other side.
There is going to be somebody out there who'll remark that the PH is just a sign you're in the "Too Slow Ducking" fraternity, and that insults a huge number of guys who view the PH as a badge of honor, signifying wounds taken in battle for our cause, whatever the cause was that day.

Only problem I have with any of this is the growing minority who seem to be quietly revising their personal histories to become "warriors after the fact" claiming various decorations, actions, and even imagined participation in major combat events from the right era, but which did not actually involve them at all.

Tall tales are always fun, but a lot of us 60's-70's era vets get turned off by some of our "brothers in arms" going around wearing the hats, or the medals, or other insignia that were not earned on the field. Too many wannabe heroes around who can't name any of the villages or objectives, or A-Team compounds, or any specific targets or campaigns of the SE Asia War Games, but show up at the VFW or even at the Wall in DC wearing the Green Beret, or some such regalia they found at a REAL veteran's yard sale somewhere.

I have a fairly simpleminded view: If you earned it wear it. Day and night if you feel like it. Anybody has a problem with it, I'll help you make that person understand YOUR point of view. Nobody needs to question a Veteran's pride in his service, whatever the PC view of the day might be.

On The Other Hand; If you are just a poser, puffing yourself up on the basis of imagined actions or exaggeration of your actual service, do us both a favor, and keep some serious amount of distance between you and me....

I'm too old for fistfights anymore, but given the training and practice Ive had over the years, you would still not want to be around me if I caught you faking your military credentials. By the way, when/if you DO get caught out, don't try to tell a real vet that you are "just paying homage to the spirit of the era" THAT will get you lots of fresh dental work, quick.

Otter · 11-22-2005, 02:17 PM

Several years ago the police chief of a small New England town got caught with POW registration plates on his and his wife's cars, when someone found out that he had never even been in combat.

"LIfe is too important to be taken seriously."

Rave · 11-22-2005, 03:27 PM

Been to gun shows in Oklahoma where vets get in free,I like that! :lucky: :nod:

lefty o · 11-22-2005, 04:03 PM

if you dont like my hat, thats fine. you can look at the ground while i walk by , with my head held high.

OneInchGroup · 11-22-2005, 05:04 PM

Vets get free club dues at ASSA.......www.slugshooting.com, and have private discussion forums just for them as well. Same with active military and LEOs.

11-21-2005, 09:40 PM	#1
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,017 Images: 9	Strange ballcap in a surplus store As I mentioned before in a Veteran's Day thread, I'm uncomfortable when people start making a fuss over my being a veteran. I don't expect to to be patted on the head for something that should simply be expected of me (I know. It's ungracious of me, and I should deal with it). I'm also uncomfortable around what I would call "professional veterans." Those would be people who put in their time, then build the rest of their lives around remembering it. I can't help thinking that they need to find something for today and tomorrow to be passionate about instead. Enough with the prelude. Today I walked into a very well-stocked surplus store. It had tons of gear and clothing that was genuine surplus, as well as lots of just "outdoorsy" stuff. But along one wall, they had every ballcap you could imagine that mentioned being a veteran: Operation Freedom Veteran; Gulf War Veteran; Operation Freedom AND Gulf War Veteran; Vietnam Veteran, WWII Veteran; Retired Army, Navy, Air Force or USMC; etc. But the prize winner was one that said, in big capital letters, "PURPLE HEART" something or other (I don't remember the exact wording). Under that in smaller lettering it said, "Combat Wounded." Am I the only one who thinks that is a Very Strange Ballcap? Personally, I'd rather get shot again than be caught dead wearing it...

11-21-2005, 09:47 PM	#2
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11,199 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	to each his own I reckon. some people deal with things and express themselves in their own way. someone just created another outlet for individuals to make a choice to do that. now, if we lived in one of those extremely communist countries, they may not even allow that on the shelf. then, someone could go ahead and shoot me. __________________ Joe the plumber is screwed

11-21-2005, 10:43 PM	#5
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833	there is a HUGE difference between getting shot in combat for your country and getting hit by a car. I'm not a soldier or never been one I have great respect for those who are/were - to voluntarily stand at the receiving end of a weapon must require immense dingleberries. kind of funny incident but I was shooting some hot 8mm the other day and a bullet impacted at the top of the wooden target frame...it was shot to bits! I joked with our ol' rangemaster about how I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of that...he looked at me & said, son our boys were at the receiving end of that 8mm and it wasn't pretty...I just stood there for a second or two Last edited by gunssb; 11-21-2005 at 10:58 PM.

11-21-2005, 11:08 PM	#8
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	I am not a vet. I know many vets, however. I have much more respect for those like Troy who don't wear it on thier sleeve. Sometimes it makes those of us who didn't serve uncomfortable, because there was nothing for some of us to serve for. I was born too late for VietNam. I grew up in the eighties and came of age in 1990 - when the military didn't want me. I got a GED when I was 17 so I could work to support my family since my parents were hit hard in the recession then (I know dumb move but you know how hindsight is.) I wasn't college bound or in college or have any college credits. I know, I tried to join and they wouldn't give me the time of day. This was the beginning of an era of military reductions and recruiters were pushed to find quality recruits, instead of quantity. Desert Storm came and went in the blink of an eye. Now they need recruits. I could still join (barely) but now I have a family of my own to feed and the military doesn't pay for sh*t. It's kept me up at night at times 'cause I feel like somethings coming down the pike that's gonna make Iraq look like Grenada and I would want to defend this nation. Anyway, my point is that alot of us who haven't served but wanted to were just born at the wrong time. And sometimes the Uber-patriots with Purple Heart hats make me feel like I'm a poor excuse for an American. Maybe I am. __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

11-22-2005, 12:27 AM	#9
ducktapehero Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Southern Missouri Posts: 319	I served my country and I'm proud of it. I didn't see combat but I did shatter my ankle at Hohenfels Germany. I'm a disabled veteran. And when people thank me it's great but the best way to honor and thank vets? Treat them how they deserve to be treated after they get out. I speak from experience, VA hospitals are a disgrace. It's a shame. And the problem is that the people in charge don't even think there's a problem. People on welfare get better medical care than our veterans. __________________ Is it Duck or Duct Tape? http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/duckvsduct.html "Me fail English? That's unpossible!!"----Ralph Wiggum

11-21-2005, 10:21 PM	#3
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,017 Images: 9	Actually, in the old communist Russia they made a big fuss over their WWII veterans. But the modern government has cut or stopped their pensions, I've been told. In a country as poor and as mismanaged as that one's been for untold generations, that's pretty serious stuff for the old boys, and it's a shame. It could literally be a matter of life and death to someone too old or infirm to work. A little sidetrack here: the Russians have got to be the most inept rulers in the world. There are areas they ruled for a thousand years that don't even speak Russian. Can you imagine anyone else ruling people for that long without even managing to teach them the language, much less integrating them into their society and culture?

11-21-2005, 10:35 PM	#4
inuyasha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US occupied territories of "south dakota" Posts: 357	i agree troy... i always thought it was odd that people announced that they were shot in combat, i generally assumed that was something you would not care to admit. i suppose it is to show what sacrifice you personally made for the country but still... that would be like getting hit by a car to save a person in the street, just seems odd to have a shirt saying "i got hit by a car" ... just my thoughts..

11-21-2005, 10:54 PM	#6
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,017 Images: 9	Incidently, I don't want to be too hard on those "professional veterans" I mentioned. I'm fully aware that a lot of them are out there fighting for their fellow veterans, instead of just going to meetings and having parades. And the rest of us are better off for it

11-22-2005, 04:27 AM	#10
NorCalAshnjikov Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 688 Images: 1	I am not a veteran (though I've had to keep my head down a few times), but I don't think any actual veterans would buy a hat (cap) like that. Maybe one that just say USMC ... but veteran? Its just too lame.

11-22-2005, 08:42 AM	#11
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,017 Images: 9	A lot of guys buy the Veteran or Retired Military caps. Go into any retirement community in the California desert and you'll see old geezers wearing them. I think it marks them as part of a social group, more than anything else. But I've never seen one before like the Purple Heart cap I was talking about. I'd feel sorry for anyone wearing one. Not because they had gotten tagged in combat, but because their lives were so empty they needed the validation.

11-22-2005, 10:20 AM	#13
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Being a veteran puts a person into a unique brotherhood. Much like a fraternity or the brotherhood of LEOs and fire fighters. And one of the side perks of that brotherhood is knowing that you experienced a period of time in sacrafice and provided a civic and patriotic service so that others would not have to. If a person wants to tell society that he/she served by wearing an article of clothing then it's his/her right to do so. In fact they have far more right to show their service than for others to condemn them for it. Troy, I guess you'd think less of those drivers here in Arizona that have the Purple Heart license plate on their vehicle. I salute every one that I see. For I know what traumatic thoughts they carry each day for us to be free. I'm having a hard time finding the line you have drawn, Troy. Does your post..and others..suggest that members, such as myself, of the VFW, the American Legion, DAV, etc. are insecure and they join just for the sake of bragging rights? I'm not trying to start anything but I am trying to thoroughly understand what the difference is between wearing what one wishes and what one puts one their car, etc. I see many vehicles with Marine Corp stickers, US Army stickers, etc. and that says to me the same...they served. And I often see past US Navy men wearing caps that broadcasts the ship they served on in the Persian Gulf and elsewhere. I've see emblems where men and women say they are Korean or WW II veterans. I've seem the same emblems for Viet Nam vets. I think it's great to see them and I thank them for their service. In short, I might also think that it's gaudy wearing a notation that they were injured but, like I said, that person earned the right to wear that cap and I'll be danged if I will openly chastise him or her for wearing it. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

11-22-2005, 10:41 AM	#14
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,053	Imo anyone who served our country has the right to wear a ball cap,t-shirt,or anything else that rings their chimes. I served,but it's not my thing to wears things or have bumper stickers and auto tags,but to each his own,and I am respectful of those that choose either way,they have a right to show how proud they are of their accomplishment. I salute all who served! :cheer: :right: __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

11-22-2005, 10:42 AM	#15
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11,199 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	I gotta agree Dale. I have Vet plates on my truck, I don't feel like a bad guy. If I had a PH would I buy the hat and T shirt? I don't know. If I did, I probably wouldn't were it to some places, it might make a good fishing hat. Always looking for a good fishing hat. I don't understand what the big deal is. __________________ Joe the plumber is screwed Last edited by jerry; 11-22-2005 at 10:45 AM.

11-22-2005, 01:09 PM	#16
OneInchGroup Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 123	War Hero Hats Everybody deals with their life experiences according to their own set of quirks and whatever twists life has taken for them. For me, a PH hat would not be a first choice, but I've known a few guys for whom that particular experience was the one that turned their life in a whole new direction, sometimes to the good, and sometimes to the extreme other side. There is going to be somebody out there who'll remark that the PH is just a sign you're in the "Too Slow Ducking" fraternity, and that insults a huge number of guys who view the PH as a badge of honor, signifying wounds taken in battle for our cause, whatever the cause was that day. Only problem I have with any of this is the growing minority who seem to be quietly revising their personal histories to become "warriors after the fact" claiming various decorations, actions, and even imagined participation in major combat events from the right era, but which did not actually involve them at all. Tall tales are always fun, but a lot of us 60's-70's era vets get turned off by some of our "brothers in arms" going around wearing the hats, or the medals, or other insignia that were not earned on the field. Too many wannabe heroes around who can't name any of the villages or objectives, or A-Team compounds, or any specific targets or campaigns of the SE Asia War Games, but show up at the VFW or even at the Wall in DC wearing the Green Beret, or some such regalia they found at a REAL veteran's yard sale somewhere. I have a fairly simpleminded view: If you earned it wear it. Day and night if you feel like it. Anybody has a problem with it, I'll help you make that person understand YOUR point of view. Nobody needs to question a Veteran's pride in his service, whatever the PC view of the day might be. On The Other Hand; If you are just a poser, puffing yourself up on the basis of imagined actions or exaggeration of your actual service, do us both a favor, and keep some serious amount of distance between you and me.... I'm too old for fistfights anymore, but given the training and practice Ive had over the years, you would still not want to be around me if I caught you faking your military credentials. By the way, when/if you DO get caught out, don't try to tell a real vet that you are "just paying homage to the spirit of the era" THAT will get you lots of fresh dental work, quick.

11-22-2005, 02:17 PM	#17
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 980 Images: 6	Several years ago the police chief of a small New England town got caught with POW registration plates on his and his wife's cars, when someone found out that he had never even been in combat. "LIfe is too important to be taken seriously." __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

11-22-2005, 03:27 PM	#18
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,053	Been to gun shows in Oklahoma where vets get in free,I like that! :lucky: :nod: __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

11-22-2005, 04:03 PM	#19
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 5,103	if you dont like my hat, thats fine. you can look at the ground while i walk by , with my head held high.

11-22-2005, 05:04 PM	#20
OneInchGroup Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 123	Vets get free club dues at ASSA.......www.slugshooting.com, and have private discussion forums just for them as well. Same with active military and LEOs.