30,000 GM workers to loose their jobs.

[Rave]

I guess it's just a sign of the times.

[iflylow74]

I think the union there has bit the hand that feeds it.

[Calvin]

Yeah, this is hitting Dayton hard. Last time they talked about closures, Dayton was gonna be losing over 5800 jobs locally. Don't know what the new numbers are for sure, but it looks like at least 4800 jobs are done by June of next year.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by iflylow74

I think the union there has bit the hand that feeds it.

The head of Ford just went to Congress with cap in hand, asking for tax breaks and incentives along the lines of what the (extremely profitable) oil industry just got.

I think he should have mentioned the 53 million dollars he took home last year, and discussed how much of a pay cut he'd be willing to take before he goes after the unions again...

if they made a decent product at a decent price people would buy them..but they don't..so people buy foreign cars (my Honda was made in the USA types who aren't smart enough to realize that the profit goes overseas) that are made better and last longer

[1963duce100]

Not to be a jerk, but I feel that all of us who buy impert cars are to blame. Just because I am a big GM fan (i'm on my 8th GM auto) is beside the point. I feel taht every time you buy impert you sell alittle of the county out. I try to buy American in every thing that I can. Just my $.02

another part of the problem is management and labor are so busy trying to mess each other over that they don't see that they're messing us over too..

[practical]

Originally Posted by 1963duce100

Not to be a jerk, but I feel that all of us who buy impert cars are to blame. Just because I am a big GM fan (i'm on my 8th GM auto) is beside the point. I feel taht every time you buy impert you sell alittle of the county out. I try to buy American in every thing that I can. Just my $.02

I buy what suits my needs best. When I bought a 2 seat sports car, Toyota had my business. When I bought my pickup, Chevy got it because their diesel was the best in my mind. I don't think I sold the country out when I bought my Toyota. I made an informed decision. I don't believe in corporate welfare. I'm not going to participate in it either. If GM wants to do better, they need to sell better products at good prices and keep their internal costs down.

[whirlwind]

now i havent seen any sales reports,but i bet folks arent too eager to buy big honkin'gas guzzlers after paying 3 plus bucks a gallon for most of the year. i do drive a half ton dodge and my only saving grace is mines an '01 model,and thank god it has a 318 or i would have had to get rid of it!

[dave375hh]

GM's problem is they don't react to changes in a timely manner. During the last down cycle in '81-'82 Ford and Chrysler got rid of their overcapacity by downsizing. GM just whined their way into a concession contract from the union. They didn't do anything to fix the problem. Two months after getting the concesions they paid huge bonuses to their management personel that really P'O the union. The closest guarded secret in the auto buisness is the actual cost to GM to produce a car. The most expensive part in a car is the windshield because it's outsourced and costs about $100. An AC compresser that costs $300 to $400 to replace, costs GM $52. I picked up these numbers when I worked there off of the scrap costs sheets. While they whine about labor costs remeber this, Labor costs factored into a car amount to only 7% of the total cost.

In their latest round of whining they got healthcare concessions from both the workers and retirees(that's me) and the retirees didn't get a vote. And I guarantee in Dec. they'll be handing out Exc. bonus's that will be obsene. The same thing happened in '82. Apparently the union has a short memory. In effect they give bonus's to the people most responeable for their mis-management and financial problems.

The old saying "the truth will set you free" dosen't apply to corperate ignorance, and abuse of the truth.

[Paper]

Originally Posted by 1963duce100

Not to be a jerk, but I feel that all of us who buy impert cars are to blame. Just because I am a big GM fan (i'm on my 8th GM auto) is beside the point. I feel taht every time you buy impert you sell alittle of the county out. I try to buy American in every thing that I can. Just my $.02

I'm not trying to be a jerk, either, but every time I've purchased an American made car, I spend WAY too much time fixing issues that shouldn't be issues in the first place.. My other complaint is that they don't hold value..

I don't have a problem with American car companies, but if I can't buy something reliable and if it's worthless when I decide on another car, even after only 2-3 years, why would I not spend my hard earned money on something that doesn't have these two very bad features??

My Scion xB is worth more now, used, than it was when I bought it new, and it's been completely trouble free.. My 1997 Toyota T100 has 165K miles and is still worth $7000, according to KBB private party in Good condition.. If it was a Dodge Dakota, I wouldn't be able to give it away. I know.. I owned a couple Dakotas..

[practical]

My truck, which sported a $52k price tag(thanks GM employee purchase program) had problems. Broken plastic pieces inside and loose upholstory. That has never happened with any Toyota or Honda I or my family have ever bought. Still, nobody can touch the fullsize trucks the US makes. I think, but don't know, that GM is losing their butts on cars. Maybe they should scale back there and focus on what they do best....trucks. I know they are fuel inefficient, but do what you do well.

[Paper]

Maybe they should scale back there and focus on what they do best....trucks.

Problem is, they've been doing that for years.. They call it GMC...

[Chris]

I own a Chevy Caprice, the last year of the Rear Wheel LT1's.

That baby has lasted me a very good while now *knock on wood*. Some minor cosmetics but the engine is till very strong. When GM quit making cars like that...they really lost me as a customer.

I drive a Cadillac..but after I graduate I'll be looking for a PT Cruiser

[Calvin]

I drive a Honda Civic to work. My recreational car is my Mustang. My SUV's consist of an '83 CJ7 and a '97 Wrangler.
Owned Chevys before and had lots of trouble with them. Was not impressed at all. Plus, I know a bunch of GM employees from the Columbus Delphi plant who made more money working there than they could figure out what to do with. Unfortunately, they had apartments that had little or no furniture and were the biggest dope fiends in town. Never did understand that, but to each his own.
Maybe GM shouldn't have so many different models of cars/trucks at one time. Get rid of their slower sellers and combine the best to hopefully fill in the lineup.

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by Bulletproof

if they made a decent product at a decent price people would buy them..but they don't..so people buy foreign cars (my Honda was made in the USA types who aren't smart enough to realize that the profit goes overseas) that are made better and last longer

Do you picture a 747 with the hold full of cash flying back to Japan to distribute the "profit"?

When a car is manufactured in the US most of the "profit" STAYS here. The wages paid to the workers that assembled it, the parts suppliers, and the reinvestment in the plant that built it. There is no transfer of wealth back to Japan, to do so would mean paying income tax on it a second time. Or you can go buy your GM that was built in Mexico or Canada - wonder what they do with that money?

those little trade deficits just appear out of thin air ?

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Bulletproof

those little trade deficits just appear out of thin air ?

But I don't think the cars have that much to do with them, because yer average car is a multi-national product nowadays.

My Nissan Frontier, and the Hardbody I had before, were manufactured in Smyrna, Tennessee. So the profit margin may have gone to a foreign corporation, but a lot of the money spent on raw materials, sub-assemblies, line wages, bookkeeping, energy, etc, went into the local economy instead. Not to mention the money that was spent at the dealerships, which are locally owned also.

My wife's old car was a Geo Metro. That was a Suzuki manufactured in Canada, and sold in the U.S. by Chevrolet. I'd say the profit got well-passed around on that little green machine.

Back in the early 'nineties when everyone was freaking out over the Japanese invasion, I read about a parks department in a small midwestern town that ordered a Yamaha lawn tractor. When the City Council freaked out and passed a resolution to "buy American,", they cancelled the order and bought a John Deere instead.

Turned out the Yamaha was made in the U.S.A., and the John Deere was made in South Korea...

[Paper]

Turned out the Yamaha was made in the U.S.A., and the John Deere was made in South Korea...

I'd check into that.. I don't doubt that the Yamaha was made in the States, but I'm pretty sure that all JD lawn tractors are made in Horicon, Wisconsin..

A buddy of mine is a JD dealer, so I'll check with him also..