murtha ---army is worn out

[7mmag6]

What does everyone think of what murtha says---all I know is the nm national gaured unit near here used to have a yard teeming with deuce and a halfs( showing my age) hummers construction equipment. The gaured is back but there aint a dang thing in the yard but a couple of busted up hummers, a friend in the gaurd told me they have nothing to take if they go back and most of the equipment lays in junk yards in Iraq, and they basically have no equipment, rifles, or ammo
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051201/..._iraq_murtha_3

[Rave]

Ssssshhhhh!

[Big Dog]

Sounds like some lucrative new production contracts are in order. Wonder who's constituency gets the jobs . . . ?

They do this occasionally - find a nifty little conflict to use and test the toys in - find what works and what doesn't. Use up the older stuff, so they can order the next-generation stuff.
Just like with Clinton's War, in the old Jugoslavia - all those aged cruise-missiles expended to make way for the newer ones.
I'm betting your units will soon have their yard full of shiny new Hummers and trucks, new rifles, crates of new ammo. And some Senators will get re-elected for helping their local companies get those contracts.

Same old stuff, indeed.

[mudtoy67]

:hmmm Maybe when this war finally cools down I'll need to take a little trip to scrounge some Iraqi junkyards for hummer parts.

[troy2000]

Here's my two bits: Murtha's a good man, in every sense of the word, and with the emphasis on "man." that doesn't automatically make him right on everything he says, but anyone with good sense will at least listen to him carefully...

[Roy Collins]

Murtha is worn out and needs to step down from office or be arrested for treason.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Roy Collins

Murtha is worn out and needs to step down from office or be arrested for treason.

Obviously not, or you'd know better than to say that. In spite of the Republican propaganda machine, there was nothing "cut and run" about Murtha's plan. The man has spent his life serving his country, and the thanks he gets is to have "Mean Jean" Schmidt call him a coward, and to have little wanna-be Rambos like you call him a traitor.

If thinking Bush has his head stuck where the sun don't shine is treason, you'd better send someone to arrest me too.

That happens to be my flag you're wrapping yourself in, and I wish you'd put it down. You're getting slime all over it...

"I'm afraid the making of World War III is actually taking place in front of our eyes." Prince Hassan of Jordan - March 26, 2004

[gmatov]

Bravo, Troy.

Cheers,

George

[Rave]

I heard them say on FNN that it was odd that he be attacked and called a coward by someone that who's only fight was for a parking space at the country club,can't give much credibility to anyone who has never been there.:nod:

[dhermesc]

Actually Schmidt was repeating the words of an active duty Marine that took exception to Murtha's surrender advocacy. The words she quoted were "cowards cut and run, Marines don't."


"Congressman John Murtha, the liberal media's overnight American Idol. Last week, he was almost anonymous. (Bet you couldn't name which state he represents.) By the weekend, he had his name in lights like Cindy Sheehan -- another helping of powdered instant media-manufactured anti-war hero.

Mr. Murtha boldly declared that the Iraq war could not be won militarily, going so far as to say American was making it far worse -- that we were "the problem," not the solution. Suddenly, by Thursday night, he was leading the nightly TV newscasts. ABC called him an "influential Democrat." CBS said "on military matters, no Democrat in Congress is more influential." NBC's Brian Williams put it this way: "When one congressman out of 435 members of Congress speaks out against the war in Iraq, it normally wouldn't be news. But it was today, because of who he is."

But the really amazing turn in the rapid ascent of John Murtha, our instant Exit-Iraq-Now hero, was what happened next. On Friday, House Republicans finally showed some spine and did something wonderful. They called for an up-or-down vote on withdrawal, and put everyone formally on the record.

So much for the most "influential Democrat" in the Congress. The House -- Democrats and Republicans -- handed Murtha (and the press) one of the most lopsided, humiliating defeats imaginable. The House vote for withdrawal: 3 in favor, 403 against. So much for that "growing" public demand for the removal of American troops. The headline should have been "Overwhelming House Majority Votes to Support Bush in Iraq."
by Brent Bozell



STATEMENT FROM CONGRESSWOMAN JEAN SCHMIDT Washington, DC -

Last week as I returned to the Capitol Building after attending a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery for a local fallen Marine, I found out that the Democrats had just announced their policy position to immediately withdraw troops from Iraq.

I strongly opposed the plan from the moment I heard it.

My good friend Representative Bubp called me to discuss this plan during the House debate on the issue of immediately removing troops from Iraq.

I relayed our conversation with Representative Bubp on the House Floor.

Since that moment I have been attacked from across the country by the left.

I never meant to attack Congressman Murtha personally. I sent him a personal note of apology on Friday evening moments after my words. While I strongly disagree with his policy, neither Representative Bubp nor I ever wished to attack Congressman Murtha. I only take exception to his policy position.

I am amazed at what a national story this has become. It was never intended.

I am thankful for the thousands of supportive messages I have received from the people I represent and others across the nation since Friday. But this story has been way too focused on me, my conviction and word selection. Instead this story should be focused on the extremely poor policy the minority now propose. A policy, I might point out, that through this media storm has now been repudiated by dozens of leading members of the minority.

I have been attacked very personally, continuously since Friday evening. I am quite willing to suffer those attacks if in the end that policy I so strongly oppose is exposed as unsound. First and foremost I support the troops. They dodge bullets and bombs while I duck only hateful words.

[troy2000]

WASHINGTON - Three days after Rep. Jean Schmidt was booed off the House floor for saying that "cowards cut and run, Marines never do," the Ohioan she quoted disputed the comments.

Danny Bubp, a freshman state representative who is a colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve, told The Enquirer that he never mentioned Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., by name when talking with Schmidt, and he would never call a fellow Marine a coward.

"The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute.

"Unfortunately, they came out wrong," said Bubp, R-West Union.

She also broke several rules of the House, including one that says, "A member may not read in debate extraneous material critical of another member, which would be improper if spoken in the member's own words."

In other words, she can't get around the rules against insulting fellow members by claiming that someone else said it.

The resolution that the Republicans put forth had absolutely nothing to do with Murtha's. He put forth a detailed plan for withdrawal of major forces from Iraq, coupled with a plan for deploying "quick-strike" forces in a perimeter around it, because he said our very presence in-country was making things worse. Theirs, which they specifically intended for people to confuse with Murtha's, simply called for an "immediate withdrawal," period.

To claim that a vote against it was a vote against Murtha is the rawest, most cynical political spin.

Little Ms. Schmidt just guaranteed that she'll be a one-term congresswoman. She's actually tried to claim she didn't even know Murtha was a Marine, with the excuse that, "they keep us awfully busy around here."

Jack Murtha, on the other hand, was given a standing ovation the next THREE times he entered the chamber.

Get your facts straight next time.

Originally Posted by dhermesc

Actually Schmidt was repeating the words of an active duty Marine that took exception to Murtha's surrender advocacy. The words she quoted were "cowards cut and run, Marines don't."
"Congressman John Murtha, the liberal media's overnight American Idol. Last week, he was almost anonymous. (Bet you couldn't name which state he represents.) By the weekend, he had his name in lights like Cindy Sheehan -- another helping of powdered instant media-manufactured anti-war hero.
Mr. Murtha boldly declared that the Iraq war could not be won militarily, going so far as to say American was making it far worse -- that we were "the problem," not the solution. Suddenly, by Thursday night, he was leading the nightly TV newscasts. ABC called him an "influential Democrat." CBS said "on military matters, no Democrat in Congress is more influential." NBC's Brian Williams put it this way: "When one congressman out of 435 members of Congress speaks out against the war in Iraq, it normally wouldn't be news. But it was today, because of who he is."
But the really amazing turn in the rapid ascent of John Murtha, our instant Exit-Iraq-Now hero, was what happened next. On Friday, House Republicans finally showed some spine and did something wonderful. They called for an up-or-down vote on withdrawal, and put everyone formally on the record.
So much for the most "influential Democrat" in the Congress. The House -- Democrats and Republicans -- handed Murtha (and the press) one of the most lopsided, humiliating defeats imaginable. The House vote for withdrawal: 3 in favor, 403 against. So much for that "growing" public demand for the removal of American troops. The headline should have been "Overwhelming House Majority Votes to Support Bush in Iraq."
by Brent Bozell
STATEMENT FROM CONGRESSWOMAN JEAN SCHMIDT Washington, DC -
Last week as I returned to the Capitol Building after attending a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery for a local fallen Marine, I found out that the Democrats had just announced their policy position to immediately withdraw troops from Iraq.
I strongly opposed the plan from the moment I heard it.
My good friend Representative Bubp called me to discuss this plan during the House debate on the issue of immediately removing troops from Iraq.
I relayed our conversation with Representative Bubp on the House Floor.
Since that moment I have been attacked from across the country by the left.
I never meant to attack Congressman Murtha personally. I sent him a personal note of apology on Friday evening moments after my words. While I strongly disagree with his policy, neither Representative Bubp nor I ever wished to attack Congressman Murtha. I only take exception to his policy position.
I am amazed at what a national story this has become. It was never intended.
I am thankful for the thousands of supportive messages I have received from the people I represent and others across the nation since Friday. But this story has been way too focused on me, my conviction and word selection. Instead this story should be focused on the extremely poor policy the minority now propose. A policy, I might point out, that through this media storm has now been repudiated by dozens of leading members of the minority.
I have been attacked very personally, continuously since Friday evening. I am quite willing to suffer those attacks if in the end that policy I so strongly oppose is exposed as unsound. First and foremost I support the troops. They dodge bullets and bombs while I duck only hateful words.

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by troy2000

WASHINGTON - Three days after Rep. Jean Schmidt was booed off the House floor for saying that "cowards cut and run, Marines never do," the Ohioan she quoted disputed the comments.
Danny Bubp, a freshman state representative who is a colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve, told The Enquirer that he never mentioned Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., by name when talking with Schmidt, and he would never call a fellow Marine a coward.
"The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute.
"

You are forgetting the "rest of the story". The marine that said he didn't mention Murtha by name also said it was because he didn't know Murtha's name, nor did he know Murtha was a former marine. But he was pissed that Murtha has made "Surrender and Retreat" his slogan for the past 2 years. He figured they guy was Sheehag's cousin.

[Outriderdark]

We may get to the point that we need the draft.
Perhaps someone with a more thorough knowledge of military history could confirm this, but I don't think anyone in world history has maintained a military campaign for any length of time without conscription.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by dhermesc

You are forgetting the "rest of the story". The marine that said he didn't mention Murtha by name also said it was because he didn't know Murtha's name, nor did he know Murtha was a former marine. But he was pissed that Murtha has made "Surrender and Retreat" his slogan for the past 2 years. He figured they guy was Sheehag's cousin.

Murtha has NOT made Surrender and Retreat his slogan for the last two years. This is the first time he came out against the war, after supporting it from the get-go.

And there is no possible way that Bubp could have opposed Murtha for two years without knowing who he was. You're flat making that up. Or you're stupidly parroting someone else who's making it up, which is even worse.

"Bubp, who has served in the Marine Corps Reserve for 27 years, including three years of active duty, said he called Schmidt on Friday afternoon to discuss the resolution that called for the immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq - not to talk about Murtha.

"There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward."

People like you have played the "coward" and "traitor" cards a time or two too many. How long do you think you can get away with claiming that every combat veteran, and every professional military man, who opposes Bush is a sham and a fraud who hates his country?

Note the quote that says Bubp called Schmidt to "discuss the resolution that called for the immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq." That would be the phony resolution that the Republican leadership put forth for a vote in place of the one that Murtha proposed. She twisted Bupb's words, because she's such a bumpkin she thought she could get away with calling Murtha a coward simply by attributing the insult to someone else, instead of owning up to it.

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Murtha has NOT made Surrender and Retreat his slogan for the last two years. This is the first time he came out against the war, after supporting it from the get-go.

Please eat this crow:

May 10, 2004 CNN story stating, “Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, in a news conference with Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, said the problems in Iraq are due to a ‘lack of planning’ by Pentagon chiefs and ‘the direction has got be changed or it is unwinnable.’"

Published on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 by the New York Times
Democratic Hawk Urges Firing of Bush Iraq Aides
by David Firestone


Then this crow:

WASHINGTON, Sept. 16 2003 — One of the strongest Democratic supporters of the invasion of Iraq joined the growing offensive against the administration's postwar planning today, demanding that President Bush fire his defense leadership team.

The Democrat, Representative John P. Murtha of Pennsylvania, a decorated Vietnam veteran, said that he had been misled into voting for the war by incorrect information from top administration officials and that the president had also been misled.

"You can't fire the president unless you're in California," Mr. Murtha said. "But somebody recommended this policy to him, and he took the recommendation. Somebody has to be held responsible, and he's got to make the decision who it was."

Then take a bite out of this one.

September 18, 2003 “Hardball”:

Chris Matthews: Earlier this week, Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania called on President Bush to fire those responsible for drafting and executing the post-war plan in Iraq. Here he is.

MURTHA: I've never been able to find out. And then they said if Saddam Hussein is cornered, the same thing is going to happen. All right. That didn't happen.

We're embarrassed internationally. We have lost credibility. Now what can we do to retain our credibility?

They're losing hope in Iraq. Lugar, Senator Lugar's report in June said, "OK, 80 percent of the Iraqi people support us. They support the liberation."


Murtha's been a back biting bi*** since 6 months after his party voted to go to war.

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by troy2000

And there is no possible way that Bubp could have opposed Murtha for two years without knowing who he was. You're flat making that up. Or you're stupidly parroting someone else who's making it up, which is even worse.

Please note, Bubp serves at the STATE level, Murtha is a rep at the federal level. You do know the differance between the state and federal governments right?

[troy2000]

My quote: And there is no possible way that Bubp could have opposed Murtha for two years without knowing who he was. You're flat making that up. Or you're stupidly parroting someone else who's making it up, which is even worse.

Originally Posted by dhermesc

Please note, Bubp serves at the STATE level, Murtha is a rep at the federal level. You do know the differance between the state and federal governments right?

What are you trying to say?

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by troy2000

What are you trying to say?

You don't know what your talking about and you parroting someone else's talking points without doing any research.


By the way, the only time prior to 9/11 that America's armed forces faced off against terrorists and warlords in battle, Murtha made very public demands that Slick withdraw them immediately from Somalia, that turned out great.

[troy2000]

And !!!!!ing about how a war was planned and is being carried out is a long way from a policy of Surrender and Retreat. Sorry, friend. There's no crow in that pie...

Unlike you and your cohorts, sensible people don't think that patriotism consists of blind, unthinking loyalty to our Illustrious Leader, no matter what happens or what he does. My loyalty is to the country, not to Dubya..