Watched the President's speech.

[Rave]

Watched his speech on the "plan" in Iraq,SOS,he did say that as long as he was in charge we would stay the course.
Meanwhile there was a crawler under him stating that the Army War College,Crane and Tyrell, said that we could not sustain the occupation of Iraq for more than three more years,we will not be able to crush the insurgents in three years,and we will not be able to make the Iraq defense army effective in that time.
If all this is true than we will indeed be spending the rest of his term in Iraq and someone else will have to clean up after him/us.
Sounds like Viet Nam all over again,history repeating itself,guess our fearless leaders never learn.

[Stopper]

Sos

[Outriderdark]

What a waste....we had such an opportunity with Iraq and they blew it.

[troy2000]

I think it's bad enough they went in on what I believe to be false pretenses, insulting my intelligence all the way. but I could have forgiven that, if the results had turned out to be worthwhile.

But it's inexcusable that they didn't do it right. And I don't know what the (bleep) we should do now; I don't see any good options.

I think that it was empty rhetoric for Bush to stand there and say he won't accept anything but "total victory." Will someone please define for me what "total victory" is, against a guerrilla war operating side-by-side with a terrorist campaign in a country where, according to the polls, about four out of five people just want us to get the !@#$ out and go home?

Originally Posted by troy2000

I think it's bad enough they went in on what I believe to be false pretenses, insulting my intelligence all the way

DESCRIPTION OF CONFLICT:

As early 1899, U.S. and Filipino forces faced off as a tense situation became worse. American forces held the capitol of Manila, while Aguinaldo's army occupied a trench-line surrounding the city. On the evening of February 4, 1899, Private William Grayson of the Nebraska Volunteers fired the first shot in what would turn out to be a very bloody war. Grayson shot at a group of Filipinos approaching his position, provoking an armed response. Shooting soon spread up and down the ten-mile U.S.-Filipino lines, causing hundreds of casualties. Upon the outbreak of hostilities, U.S. troops, supported by shelling from Admiral Dewey's fleet, quickly overwhelmed the Filipino positions while inflicting thousands of casualties. Within days, American forces spread outward from Manila, using superior firepower, mobile artillery and command of the sea to full effect.


By November of 1899, Aguinaldo and his forces had been pushed further and further into central Luzon (the main Philippine island) and he realized he could not fight the Americans with conventional military units. At this point, he ordered his followers to turn to guerilla tactics to combat the American army. From this point on, the war became a savage, no-holds-barred guerilla conflict made up of ambushes, massacres and retribution. Both sides engaged in wanton violence and slaughter. Villages were destroyed, civilians murdered, prisoners tortured and mutilated along with a host of other atrocities. Many American officers and non-coms had served in the Indian Wars, and thus applied the old belief that "the only good Indian was a dead Indian" to their relations with the Filipinos. This attitude of course was reciprocated by the native forces.

Emilio Aguinaldo was captured in March, 1902, and organized opposition from his followers soon faded. Despite the official end to hostilities proclaimed on July 4, 1902, individual tribes in Luzon and the Muslim Moros of the southern islands launched further uprisings for another decade or so.





CONSEQUENCES OF CONFLICT:

1. Independence for the Philippines was delayed until 1946.
2. The United States acquired an overseas colony which served as a base for U.S. business and military interests in the Asia/Pacific region.

3. Following the conclusion of major hostilities, the U.S. did it's best to "Americanize" the Philippines. Through successful civilian administration, the Islands were modernized and the nation prepared for eventual independence. The Philippines became an independent nation on July 4, 1946.



CASUALTY FIGURES:

U.S.-- 4,234 dead and 2,818 wounded.
Philippines-- 20,000 military dead and 200,000 civilian dead. (approximate numbers). Some historians place the numbers of civilian dead at 500,000 or higher.



UNIQUE FACTS OR TRENDS:

1. This was the first major land campaign fought by the U.S. outside of the Western Hemisphere.
2. The Philippine-American War can be considered America's first "Imperialistic" conflict.



SOURCES:

1. In Our Image: America's Empire In The Philippines. 1989, by Stanley Karnow. pp. 75-195.
2. The Wars of America. 1981, by Robert Leckie. pp. 563-574.

Originally Posted by Stopper

Sos

funny to see someone else make that mindless post :right:

[Rave]

No more interest in the speech? That comes as no surprise,it being more of the same stuff we heard during Viet Nam,hummm,I guess a lot of you didn't hear it,no matter,it was and is the same,stubberness to the extreme to not admit a mistake,holding the course is easier for the politician than doing anything.
I think our president has sold us out on many different subjects and in doing so sold out the GOP,too bad,we had a chance to really straighten out this country instead of tilting at foreign windmills.
I don't know what the future holds in store for us,but it doesn't bode well,imo.:insane:

[Rufus Rhastus J]

What does "imo" mean? Also, the fact he, bush, has crippled the repubs is my main concern. what if the mindless voters decide to vote for "anybody but, a repub" as a result of this very unpopular war? I did not hear the speech as I knew it would be just more of the same ole lies and half-truths.....just a little differant spin. Same ole stuff, as you say Rave.

[Outriderdark]

And that will likely be what happens. Just like after Nixon.

[Rave]

Bummer!

[1963duce100]

This is the best eample that I can come up with.

Suppose that you get a call from your ten year old sons best friends parents, they say that we have been told that you son has a LOADED .357 in his bedroom nad plans on using it at the elementry school that you teach at, would you tear his room apart despite all the fighting and argueing that would take plase.our would you say that oh he would not have one and would not use it, land let it be. After long search you find nothing, is this then false pretenses or is it Better safe than sorry???
Then imagine that "you" is the president "your kid" is Iraq "the school you teach at" is the USofA

Despite the effect it had on my son I would tear his room apart, I couldnot handle the consaquences of the other choise.

[Outriderdark]

You cannot, or rather you should not, wage war upon a soviergn nation on uncorroborated suspicions. Iraq was not our child. It was a soviergn nation.
We actually DO have WMD and everyone knows it. We declare that we do. Would you support therefore an invasion here? Are we so superior to everyone else that other nations are our "children"? Sound like tyranny, not liberty.

[1963duce100]

You cannot, or rather you should not, wage war upon a soviergn nation on uncorroborated suspicions. Iraq was not our child. It was a soviergn nation.
We actually DO have WMD and everyone knows it. We declare that we do. Would you support therefore an invasion here? Are we so superior to everyone else that other nations are our "children"? Sound like tyranny, not liberty.

YOu have taken what I said out of context, it was just an analogy.
IRAQ never was our child it was a simple analogy. You are reading way too deep. I do not feel this forum is the correct place to discuss this. If anyone want to discussthis further with me you can reach me at my yahoo gorup I will refrain from further political motovated posts
Thanks
my yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/same_page/

[Outriderdark]

The Powder Keg is a place to discuss anything, including politics. I don't think it's necessary to refrain from anything. It would be rather boring if folks stopped posting their opinions.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Outriderdark

The Powder Keg is a place to discuss anything, including politics. I don't think it's necessary to refrain from anything. It would be rather boring if folks stopped posting their opinions.

I may get a little testy at times, but I hang here for discussions and opposing viewpoints. If I just wanted to hear stuff I agree with, I'd talk to myself instead.

[Rave]

Dam good point!!!!!!:nod:

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Boreing is something we can do without!