[Johan Malan]

You bet Rave when whe sorta got into the middleages in europe we started to get ahead so to speak. in Africa they never even had that yet. They just bettered themselfs by riding the colonials's Assesl and then moan about being oppressed, When africa was settled by europeans whe had muskets and ships invented they did not even have the wheel yet. and where running around the bush half naked with spears

[Andrew]

Where does China fit into this?Would they aid the enemy?

[Outriderdark]

Hard to say at this point. They can't continue thier growth at the moment without us to buy stuff. If there were a return of the Chinese hardliners, that might change. If North Korea bombs Seoul, all eyes would be on China to see their response.

Africa really wouldn't play into it at all. You need a Navy, Airforce or other means to move troops to be a global threat. Nor does most of Africa have recources anyone needs right now. I don't think they would be a strategic factor at all.
As far as aiding Arabs in North Africa, many black Africans despise the Arabs. They played a large part in the slave trade and the general subjugation of the continent. They were giving it to them royally long before Europeans got in on it.

And as long as we're making racial generalizations - Asians, Persians, Egyptians, and others were civilized long before Europeans ever were. Those guys were figuring out astronomy while Europeans were wearing raw animal skins and grunting at the moon.

[Stopper]

China and India are both STILL growing nations whose hunger for oil is getting larger too. Both have signed big oil deals with Iran and if we or Israel bomb Iran, there could be heck to pay. Iran could stop traffic through the straits of Hormuz shutting off oil flow to and from the Arab peninsula. China and Japan and Russia are not quite squabbling but they all claim resource interests in traditional Japanese land/area. Japan has no resources and may have to go to war with China or Russia in order to get them, we won't be able to help them out cause we may not have enough oil for us. China isn't interested in sharing cause they have a couple billion to feed, cloth and have gas for a ever expanding middle class. China will replace America as far as middle class wealth if they haven't already. It'll be about resources as they deplete, it'll be about who controls it, who wants to control it.

[practical]

I think India would side with us. China I'm not so sure about. I think they'd most likely try to stay out of it. Africa does have valuable resources and would get drug into it all. They control a pretty good amount of oil, the worlds supply of chromium, and a pretty good piece of the worlds uranium supply. All of which are strategic and/or we want to keep out of certain hands. I'm not sure Pakistan is going to be happy when India joins us and we go all out against the muslim world, and they have nukes, so that's bad.

[Outriderdark]

Africa actually doesn't have all the chromium - Zimbabwe is Africas chromium nation. Russia, Transvaal, Turkey, Iran, Albania, Finland, Democratic Republic of Madagascar, and the Philippines are all chromium producing nations as well.
As far as oil - North Africa has some oil, but not a fraction of the mideast or we'd be making African allies left and right. Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt are Africa's oil producing nations and they produce very little, relatively. Each of those 4 nations' biggest export is wheat.
Africa's lack of strategic resources is why some people believe the civilized world has done precious little to help the continent they spent a thousand years pillaging.
Africa's main resource are agriculture, minerals and precious stones.

[Outriderdark]

China is certainly an enigma. The need for resources that you point out, practical, must be balanced with the need to export what they're making with all that energy. China relies heavily on coal, which they produce themselves and China is taking steps to increase it's coal dependency, much to the shagrin of environmental concerns, since coal is so dirty to burn.
China's small but growing middle class is confined mostly to urban areas. Most of the country is still very poor. Which of course leaves the door open for hardliners to return on the platform of capitalist inequity.
Of course the problem with China, is we never know quite what they really think or who's calling the shots. One minute, we're buddies. The next they threaten war over Taiwan.
They are one of the very few, if not the only, nation that could wage war on us on thier own.

[Outriderdark]

It's the nukes that screw everything up.
Pakistan launches on India. India launches back. China masses troops on India's border it's Navy masses in the South China Sea on it's way to the Indian ocean, Japan objects and blockades, Tokyo is toast. We launch on China, they launch on us, Israel can't stay out of it so they launch on every mid east nation. All the hidden ones come up from the ground. France launches on Israel, England launches on France, Russia launches on us by accident cause the missle command is underfunded. Phew....zombie time.
There are people in the Pentagon right now running all these scenarios over and over.
The nuclear weapons of today compared to Hiroshima is like a cruise missle compared to a .25acp belly gun. There is no strategic value, all it would achieve is Mutually Assured Destruction

[ash]

Bring on the zombies!

[Outriderdark]

I'd look pretty cool in some Mad Max duds.

[ash]

I got the coat for it.

[practical]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Outriderdark

Africa actually doesn't have all the chromium - Zimbabwe is Africas chromium nation. Russia, Transvaal, Turkey, Iran, Albania, Finland, Democratic Republic of Madagascar, and the Philippines are all chromium producing nations as well. As far as oil - North Africa has some oil, but not a fraction of the mideast or we'd be making African allies left and right. Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt are Africa's oil producing nations and they produce very little, relatively. Each of those 4 nations' biggest export is wheat. Africa's lack of strategic resources is why some people believe the civilized world has done precious little to help the continent they spent a thousand years pillaging. Africa's main resource are agriculture, minerals and precious stones.

You forgot Nigeria, Angola, and the rest of west Africa. They have a pretty good bit of oil and thats all they have going for them. I have some friends who work in those !!!! holes. They say its bad. Really bad.

[whirlwind]

how ever it ends its gonna be bad. its a shame...but it has to end sometime.

[Big Dog]

I just hope whatever rises up from the ashes is better than what went before.
Where is Ben Raines when we need him . . . ?

[Johan Malan]

Transvaal is a province not a Nation anymore

[Johan Malan]

The big thing to remember is: That no matter how just the cause a war will never be won, both sides will lose in someway, war is something evil that shold not happen

Quote:       Originally Posted by Johan Malan

war is something evil that shold not happen

war is a constant, defining characteristic of humanity..like it or not, it's here to stay some wars are inevitable..good against evil..take Germany in the first two world wars..there was no way we weren't going to get involved..the muslim terrorists wouldn't hesitate to use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons if they had them..

[BattleRifleG3]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Johan Malan

The big thing to remember is: That no matter how just the cause a war will never be won, both sides will lose in someway, war is something evil that shold not happen

That is correct in that war is a result of our fallen (sinful) nature. What we do about it as something that is a given about this world is another matter. I hold that while war is the result of sin, avoiding it is not getting beyond the problem.

[Outriderdark]

Regardless of the origins of our nature, I believe conflict is necessary to our nature, and nature in general- good and evil aside for it is very rarely as simple as that.
But it has become a "let's try not to completely f* the world" proposition since 1945.
In a way, nukes have prevented many a potential war in the last 60 yrs. But the way human nature is, it is unlikely that everyone can stand around with their fingers on the triggers of the ultimate guns forever without someone squeezing.
"I feel impelled to speak today in a language that in a sense is new - one which I, who have spent so much of my life in the military profession, would have preferred never to use. That new language is the language of atomic warfare." Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Outriderdark]

You are correct, Johan. Sorry for the error.
Actually, I think Transvaal isn't even a province anymore after the '94 elections. But I may be wrong about that.