Let's Talk About Our Country

[troy2000]

The flood of illegals is having a tremendous impact on California, as GunBanLand says. I don't blame them for coming; I'd do the same if I had a family to feed and lived in the cesspools they come from. And most of the ones I've dealt with are hardworking, decent people. But the flood is overwhelming us.

It's blatantly obvious that Bush not only isn't trying to stop them; he likes the endless supply of desperate people who not only work cheap but drive down wages for others.

He claims they do work that Americans won't do. You know why they won't do it? Because they can't make a living at it.

When I was young I worked in the fields alongside whites, blacks, and mexican-americans. Back then a man could feed, clothe and house his family on what he made. Try doing it on today's minimum wage--and the employers regularly screw the illegals out of even that pittance.

Federal law calls for a fine of up to $10,000.00 a day for every illegal alien an employer has on the payroll. You know how many of them were cited and fined last year by the Feds? Not a single one.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Troy2000, you said "The flood of illegals is having a tremendous impact on California"...well, you left out florida! I went down to renew my passport yesterday, i was the only white guy there. all the rest, mex!!!!! They were drivening up in vans, from the farms in Ruskin! Of course, no speak english so they had two translators. What a crock! There ought to be a law!

[FutureMarine]

Originally Posted by troy2000

The flood of illegals is having a tremendous impact on California, as GunBanLand says. I don't blame them for coming; I'd do the same if I had a family to feed and lived in the cesspools they come from.

I totally agree, ive said many times that these are very good people, hard working and decent. I dont recall them on street corners saying signs WILL work for money...the ARE working, and very hard

[GunBanLand]

OK, they are not on the corners begging for cash. But they are in large groups begging day jobs at every paint store, electrical supply, and home Depot in town taking jobs and work away from our legal citizens. Home Depot would help our economy if they promoted a hiring program for american workers instead of giving a safe haven to illegals while stealing american jobs.
Let's face it, their country is poor but saying you can't blame them for coming here is no feasable answer. It is that attitude that got us in this position. It is up to their governmaent to asist them not ours. Rememeber they are here illegaly shall we? Leaving their country due to it's poverty is no reason we should have to pay their way in ours is it?
This should stir your thoughts. Almost all Law abiding americans are listed on record as gun owners, assault weapon owners, and so on. How many illegals are registered? Do you think for a single minute they are unarmed?

Originally Posted by FutureMarine

I totally agree, ive said many times that these are very good people, hard working and decent. I dont recall them on street corners saying signs WILL work for money...the ARE working, and very hard

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by GunBanLand

saying you can't blame them for coming here is no feasable answer. It is that attitude that got us in this position.

If anything, looking at them realistically and understanding why they're here is necessary if we want to stop them. Demonizing them, hating them or claiming they're only up here so they can sponge off welfare is a sidetrack.

They're here because they think they can find work here. And they can find work here because our government holds its own laws in such contempt that it won't even try to enforce them. I say again: not a single employer was busted last year for hiring illegals.

And the reason the illegals are having such a horrendous impact on our healthcare system is also due to the employers: they don't offer them healthcare, and they don't pay enough for them to afford it themselves.

[FutureMarine]

Originally Posted by GunBanLand

OK, they are not on the corners begging for cash. But they are in large groups begging day jobs at every paint store, electrical supply, and home Depot in town taking jobs and work away from our legal citizens. Home Depot would help our economy if they promoted a hiring program for american workers instead of giving a safe haven to wetbacks while stealing american jobs.
Let's face it, their country is poor but saying you can't blame them for coming here is no feasable answer. It is that attitude that got us in this position. It is up to their governmaent to asist them not ours. Rememeber they are here illegaly shall we? Leaving their country due to it's poverty is no reason we should have to pay their way in ours is it?
This should stir your thoughts. Almost all Law abiding americans are listed on record as gun owners, assault weapon owners, and so on. How many illegals are registered? Do you think for a single minute they are unarmed?

I understand that illegal immigration MUST come to a stop. Do you really think it is fair calling them wetbacks when they are just trying to do the best for their family?

EDIT: Another thing is that if we are not careful, terrorists will get here that way. I'm sure they are already here because of that

2nd EDIT: I remember reading a thread where is says the rules and one of them said no racial slurs, im surprised this was able to go this long.

[GunBanLand]

As a whole they have done more bad than good to the state, the economy, and the land itself.
For anybody to defend them being here or think they are doing us any good is rediculous. It is thinking like that which caters to them and part of the reason they are so out of control now. I suggest you do some research. Learn what has happened to our state's General Fund and see where the biggest allocation of it's funds goes. It is not to the citizens, not public Schools, it is not going to create more jobs or tax breaks. It goes to aid the illegals in food and medical. The loss to insurance companies for traffic accidents is staggering and they recoop that loss by charging us who drive legally higher rates. I guess when someone you love is turned away from a closing Trauma center or an illegal runs a light and wipes out your family and has no insurance let alone a drivers license like you and I maybe you will begin to understand. God forbid but if that happens, thank our illegal neighbors and our government for not being proactive about the problem.
As an employer I pay Inflated workers Comp Premiums due to the high incident rate of on the job accidents in this state. I bet you have no clue as to what group of workers poses the largest reporting of on job accidents do you? It is the undocumented workers that is who by a margin of 7 to 10. It is a well known fact they come here, get hurt and live like kings on our dollar. A major percentage of these acidents are staged and need to be investigated at whose expenses? Ours.
These are all facts not opinions or suspicouns and can be backed up by americans wishing to research the real issues we face rather than make silly excuses that seemingly defend them for being here illegally.
Proactive prevetion is needed not politically correctness. If it were at least fair it would not be an issue but it is not fair to us tax payers and there is no end in sight.
FYI? I removed the dergitory remark as you call it. I am not sure where you live in the state but it is widely used by many of us as well as police and fire departments included as a term for being here undocumented and not in any way meant or intended as a derogitory insult.
I do not pretend to have the cure but I am smart enough at least to recognize the problem as huge rather than how most others obviously see it.

[FutureMarine]

Okay again, i understand what is happening is AWEFUL and is going to ruin this country and state. All i am saying is that for the individual people they are decent and hardworking.

Edit: And i counldnt agree MORE with you on the fact that it MUST cease. Or, is it going take some more Ryder truck bombs and making healthcare costs soar greater to make people understand that this must stop

[troy2000]

GunBanLand,

You need to lighten up. So far, absolutely no one has disagreed with you that the illegal immigration has to stop. But you keep screaming louder and louder, as though we're all saying we want them here.

Your statistics are bogus, and your attitude is worse. Apparently you aren't satisfied with us wanting the illegal immigrants stopped; you want us to hate them too.

[Rave]

in an intrview said 1.5 million illegals were stopped in 2005,they represented more than 80 countries.
800 Americans died as a result of illegal crime,and it looks like this year will be worse.
His comments,true or false,it is a bit more food for thought.
I would be more than happy to pay more for produce if it would help stop the flood of illegals and give Americans a decent paying job.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Rave, that is shocking news! Guess we see now, as if we were not already sure, bush hates America. If he did not, and if he was sincere about the terrorist bull....he'd do something, anything...to seal our borrders better. But, of course, he is pandering to a group that will never vote repub...a group of rich mucky-mucks/elite. when honest, law abiding, and paying, citizens are denyed and crimanals are welcomed, it's clear that bush has an agenda that is not good for America.

[GunBanLand]

Originally Posted by troy2000

GunBanLand,
You need to lighten up. So far, absolutely no one has disagreed with you that the illegal immigration has to stop. But you keep screaming louder and louder, as though we're all saying we want them here.
Your statistics are bogus, and your attitude is worse. Apparently you aren't satisfied with us wanting the illegal immigrants stopped; you want us to hate them too.

Okay I will lighten up. You calling my statistics bogus assures me you have not checked them as they are right from the General Fund Records of this state and reflect the past 5 years.
Furthermore I am not trying to scream or raise anger nor promote hatred.
I believe the voice of opposition, whether it be voting or voicing is the strongest tool we the people have but when people spread rhetoric in support of the imigrants and their plight in a positive slant it further muffles the voice of change. It sends mixed signals to those listening.
I hate nobody. How you can ask me if I am trying to insite hatred behooves me as I have not said a single hatefull word directed at these people. It is not a hate issue to me at all. Living in Calif I know many illegals and yes, there are many decent among them so does that mean we bend over and let them park their ten speeds in our butt cracks?
Is it not a crime to enter the country illegally? Are criminals not supposed to be punished? What seperates criminals? Theives, rapist's and terrorist's are criminals. Are they less criminal than someone who entered our borders illegally? Other than those incarcerated, do we reward any other criminals in this country with free medical, free food, and free maps to sneak in across our borders while letting them roam free among us?
Hate is not the issue although when faced with a lack of facts it is most times easier to play the race or hate card in the absence of any other intelligent response. It got OJ free right?
I will leave this issue and topic on this note: VOTE !!! VOICE!!!

[troy2000]

If you "have not said a single hatefull word directed at these people," I don't want my children in the room when you decide to get going.

Tell me where I can read the statistics you claim came directly from California's General Fund records. Give me an internet link; give me an address; give me a booklet name or number. More specifically, show me the proof for this statement:

"what group of workers poses the largest reporting of on job accidents do you? It is the undocumented workers that is who by a margin of 7 to 10. It is a well known fact they come here, get hurt and live like kings on our dollar. A major percentage of these acidents are staged and need to be investigated at whose expenses? Ours."

[Outriderdark]

Originally Posted by GunBanLand

This should stir your thoughts. Almost all Law abiding americans are listed on record as gun owners, assault weapon owners, and so on. How many illegals are registered? Do you think for a single minute they are unarmed?

While this may stir our thoughts, it's just not true.
The US population is approximately 298 million
About 80 million are legal gun owners.

There is no evidence to suggest any large number of illegal aliens are armed.
I know quite a few folks (including my brother in law) from south of the border and can't think of any who pack heat. (Of course I don't know any gang members of any nationality.)

To suggest that the workers coming over the border are overwhelmingly armed is misleading and seems like a scare tactic. Much like the whole lazy Mexican on welfare myth. Usually, I see many of them cutting asparagus on thier knees at 4am on a Saturday morning, not standing in the welfare line. Broad generalizations do nothing for the situation.

That being said, I'm not sure I understand who you are arguing with. No one on here thinks the flood of illegals is a good thing. We all want it to stop and we all want well protected borders. We all think if you are here illegally you need to either get legal or get sent back to where you came from.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

That's fair.

[ezearln]

Well not sure about some of this stuff. My thoughts, observations and opinions may not amout to much but here goes. Before too much is said about half of my family is mexican by marriage and having grown in in the south west I have an appreciation of the hard work that the migrants do here amongst other professions. That said however I do take issue with much of the pro-amnesty garbage I am seeing these days, I know many a south Texas border town has been in crisis over the years due to women crossing the border to have thier children (Making the baby a U.S. citizen) and thus entitling them to aid and a free education in american schools. Don't believe me travel out to Laredo or Acuna, or any of a dozen border towns and watch as the U.S. Based schools buses travel into Mexico to pick up the lil buckeroos. The other thing that turms my stomach (and just watch a few of the dateline specials you'll be surprised too) is how often these folks come up here and invest in false documents so they can work. Granted they have taxes and all deducted but unless someone is really looking they fly under the radar for years. And last for me on this today is the throngs of Illegals lining the streets demanding Illegal Alien Rights???? and then to declare we are not criminals??? Ummm if ya entered this country illegally for any reason then YES you are a criminal. Go back and stand in line like the other good folks did to get their chance to come here to work. And Welcome. But to just complain that WE are making your life hard by demanding you obey our laws and follow the rules.... and demand we cure YOUR problems of possible deportation, breakups of families because of ICE raids . You put the pot on to boil don't blame me if it burnt dry...

[CrazyIvan]

Originally Posted by N2914J

Let's talk about the homo's, and about the Iraqui Prisoner Abuse,...

You talk about that as though they are both bad....

Skin em and Grin em to get info if they are evil...I don't care...

And if someone loves another who loves them back, what's the big deal? Doesn't bother me in the slightest...heck...we could use more love in this country.

[billy]

{And if someone loves another who loves them back, what's the big deal? Doesn't bother me in the slightest...heck...we could use more love in this country.} i like that sentiment . im not crazy about gays but i dont hate em. live and let live

[ArkansasHunter]

I'll hold back some, but being gay is way beyond what nature had in mind.
And not to mention the creator of this planet and what lives on it. A.H

[billy]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

I'll hold back some, but being gay is way beyond what nature had in mind.
And not to mention the creator of this planet and what lives on it. A.H

uh oh religion