I picked up a Universal carbine at a gunshow awhile back, trying to get a decent shooter that wouldn't have to pay too much for. I had no problem with a commercial model carbine but I was trying to stick close to the G.I. style, which of course this gun doesn't do but it was in very nice shape and looked almost new. Trouble is, after firing no more than just 18 rounds through the gun, the operating slide broke. So... basically the bolt lug has no slot to ride inside of anymore. I've found that this is a pretty common problem and I'm considering replacing the part for a little less than $60... BUT... it seems that these Universals have other more concerning problems... such as firing out of battery. They say the back of the bolt is supposed to be shaped so that the hammer can't reach the firing pin unless it's fully rotated into the locking position. If my gun had fired completely unlocked, I doubt I'd be typing this right now because I'd been blinded by fragments of hot brass.
So my situation sucks. I would like to simply sell the gun and hopefully correct my mistake by shopping around later and finding a better non-Universal carbine. But, I won't sell a gun that I think is unsafe. Replacing the operating slide will cost me $60, making my total investment in the gun uncomfortably close to $400. Even then, I have no idea if the gun would fire out of battery once repaired. I'm not sure what a gunsmith could cost to look at it for me and I'm trying not to invest too much in the gun. If I do, I'd might as well keep it and shoot it. But even then, they say the cast aluminum magazine well can fracture? Good greif.
I love the carbine design, but this Universal is a lemon of a gun if I've ever seen one. But it's just so... clean. But I feel that's probably because whoever owned it before didn't shoot it much because they knew what I didn't. Anyways, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
I would be interested to know where exactly did the op slide break ? Was it
behind the charging handle, also did you look at the left side of the receiver where the bolt lugs engage to lockup, look for cracking,or chipping. I agree with the other posts,A good gunsmith should do a thorough close inspection and having the spent casings to inspect may help as well in determining the problem. I would also inspect the op rod grooves in the lower barrel area.
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
The top portion of the "window" in which the bolt lug turns inside of the operating slide in front of the charging handle broke off. Eh... basically the bolt can be rotated unlocked and nearly clears the operating slide enough to move back without it, but not quite. There's no visable damage anywhere else. Actually, the portion that broke appeared to have been welded on and the welds simply broke. I don't know if they made them that way from the factory of if this is a sign that it's broke before and someone repaired it this way.
They were not welded from the factory... go to Egunparts.com and look at item # 544900B...Op slide type 2 for barrels milled flat on sides. $50.10...
There is a type 1 that is not available at this time from them for a round barrel.
You may have to disassemble action from stock to see which type you have.
Military Op slides will Not work on a Universal Carbine.
R.
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
Now you know why Universals are considered to be the bottom feeders of the carbine world. To test your carbine for the out of battery problem, you will need to pull a bullet and the powder out of a live round. First place the primed but otherwise empty case in the chamber and close the action so that the extractor slips over the rim. Then pull back on the slide so that thee bolt lug is jus barely clear of the side rail of the receiver. You can slip a thin piece of paper under the lug to hold it there. Then pull the trigger. If the primer pops, then your carbine can fire out of battery and is very dangerous. If it doesn't, remove the case and inspect the primer. If there is any dent, not just a tiny mark, but a real dent, then your carbine could still fire out of battery, if you have a soft primer. You can actually do this safely without having the slide replaced first. It may help you decide whether to repair the carbine or not.
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!
I tried a similar test but without a casing. I'll have to try that way. The way I did was with a small nail with a head that fit against the face of the bolt. I tried it from a couple unlocked positions and I think it launched the nail out a couple times so that might tell me something... and of course, if it fires out of battery, that's yet another thing wrong with it and how to fix that? A new bolt? I'm in the position of wanting to fix and sell the gun... because I know no one will want to buy a broke firearm. But I also refuse to sell anyone a "fixed" yet still dangerous firearm. If I had to do all that work, I'd might as well keep it and blast the crap out of some stuff while I'm at it.
The problem with one that fires out of battery is this, you can't fix it! it is a design flaw in the rifle. The bridge under the bolt was incorrectly milled, and If you try to fix it by welding, you destroy the heat treatment of the barrel and make it even more dangerous.
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!
Hm.. well I see the bridge below the bolt that allows the hammer to come up enough to strike the back of the bolt. I did my nail test again and it won't launch anything out with the bolt rotated completely unlocked, not 3/4s of the way. But about half way or so it will strike the nail hard enough to leave the barrel and hit my ceiling. So... it would probably fire about half-unlocked but the design of the operating slide doesn't seem to allow it to get stuck that way. It would either chamber the round, or jam. And if it jammed, the bolt would be completely unlocked, as the bolt has to fully close forward before it starts to close. So if we're talking about it firing with the bolt completely open, I don't see that being likely. Wouldn't it have to fire completely unlocked and with the breech partly open for it to detonate a round in my face? Trust me, I have no intention of finding out but I'm just seeing what I have here.
You are lucky. You have one of the good ones. Many of them will fire with an open unlocked bolt. That is what put the company out of business. A youngster was killed when one of them fired out of battery and blew up in the kid's face. The company went belly-up before the lawsuits were filed!
And I just saw a goof that I made....If you try to repair the bridge by welding you destroy the heat treatment of the RECEIVER, not the BARREL! Sheesh! I need to proof read my posts!
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!
Hm, so I wonder... does the bolt have to be mearly unlocked for an accident to happen or does it mean that the case has to actually be partly out of the chamber when the shot goes off? I'm pretty sure mine would not fire with a jammed round or one that's out of the chamber or completely unlocked. But as I said, it does seem to reach the pin with the bolt about halfway. I'm thinking that shouldn't hurt much because it doesn't look like the bolt would rest that way in the first place but then again... what made the operating slide break? Was it this out of battery deal or just a cheaply made slide? And would a new replacement slide hold up better than the original...
That depends on whether you have an early or late Uni. Early ones with a single recoil spring would have a different set of problems from the later two spring models. The later ones have definate heat treatment problems with the slide and the stress of firing often fractures them. That is the most common breakage in late Universals. IF it is an early one with many GI parts, then it is probably just a flaw in that particular part. Cracking at the lug cut did occasinaly occur even with the GI parts. It is a high stress point, but such breakage is relatively uncommon in GI parts.
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!
Yeah, mine is a late Universal. It doesn't use the G.I. parts and has the two return srings... which I might add are a bit aggrivating when putting the rifle back together. That "window" in the slide for the bolt lug doesn't seem as sturdy as the one made for the G.I. model. So, I guess if mine won't fire completely out of battery, I can replace the slide and it'll be "alright." I think the newer part would hopefully hold up well, since I'm sure it's commonly replaced and I hope the replacement parts are better made than the originals. Some generous lubrication on the bolt lug and inside the window there would hopefully reduce the stress and prolong the life of the slide. So... it looks like I can probably replace the slide and at least have the gun operable.
But of course, I did buy 200 rounds with my carbine and I must admit I'd like to fire it. But... I seriously don't want to risk it breaking again so I'm thinking of replacing the slide and selling it and getting a more G.I. style carbine.
Anyways, I hate to ramble... but let's say I fix my rifle. There's no real assurance that I'll find a buyer anytime soon. Might could keep it as trading material but what I'd really like back out of it is the money to get a better one. I'd be wanting a G.I. style rifle, but not really anything vintage. Just a good shooter. And I suppose the bayonet mount would be nice and that little green pouch for the extra mags. When at the gunshows, I never see anything but $350 Universals, and $500 and up G.I. variants. So where do I find a good deal on a G.I. style carbine? Any good makes, models, that aren't bringing an arm and a leg?
006, it seems like you will only find one in your dreams... the way todays market is going. Cheapest I heard was 500 for a non-matching Inland !
It really is sad when the M1 carbine was the most produced U.S.Weapon,
and I can find Garands cheaper, Even the New repros are at 699+ !!!:jaw:
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
I love the little carbine but it is plagued with a bit of over-pricing. We're talking about a small rifle with a round that is "adequate" but in no way a really overwhelming man-stopper. For much cheaper you can buy Kalashnikov variants like my Maadi. I've even seen a FAL L1A1 I'm considering for $600 with lot's of ammo and extra magazines. I really wish the carbines were more in the $300 price range. If you consult your Gun Trader's Guide, you'll see that the commercial models listed there are appraised well below what most are asking. It bugs me because I think the carbine is a good little gun that I wish more could enjoy without the high costs.
