WTC--Conspiracy Theory

[Ctwo]

Originally Posted by troy2000

A plausible-sounding conspiracy case can be made for any major event in history, if you work at it.

I prefer to work at a simpler level. Were the people accused of the deed capable of it? I think the answer is yes, regardless of the scientific quibbling.

Did anyone else have more to gain than they did? No.

Bush and the government certainly didn't need 9/11 to kickstart their agenda; look at the way they just flat lied our way into Iraq. Lies are cheaper, easier, more dependable than disasters, and they don't backfire nearly as bad as physically getting caught creating a disaster.

And if someone wanted to FAKE an attack, there are definitely easier ways than rigging two highrises with explosives, somehow without anyone from the maintenance workers to the cleaning staff noticing the activity or the mess.

I think the operative word is "common sense," which is usually the first casualty of a conspiracy theory. I don't need to refute all the pseudo-scientific evidence, to know that this particular conspiracy theory doesn't pass the smell test.

Nor do I need to accept someone else's explanation for something just because I can't explain it. I can just say, "OK. I can't explain this, but I'll bet there's a reasonable explanation that doesn't involve a conspiracy.

The last there says you already have a preconceived notion and are just going to look at things that support that. Obvious you will just dismiss eveything else.

common sense says that a building contructed like the WTC would not collapse at free-fall nor the way it did. common sense says that there would not be a huge quantity of molten steel and slag at the base of the buildings that continued to flow for days after.

"plausible-sounding" truths and flasehoods can be made up for anything. What does that prove? nothing!

look at it at a simpler level? were the people accused capable? YES (BTW, we are saying the gov. are the accused here). In fact, was the US gov MORE capable of doing it than a gang of cave rats? YES! in simple terms, what does that prove?

Did anyone else have anything more to gain? YES! I guess a gang of cave rats would have good reason to jump in glee, but who could gain a whole lot more? Maybe the US GOV? What else happened at the time of the attack...I think I also read something about millions of dollars dissapeared..other inside transfers related to the economy...if you only would have known ahead of time, you could postion yourself quite well to gain quite a bit. Now, who had more to gain? It would not be the first time the gov. rapped its citizens. simple terms.

The bush admin DID need a terror event to start their agenda. The little nazi NEEDED to strike fear into americans to push his agenda. the previous system would not support or tolerate actions that are taking place today. simple. Afgan and Iraq, maybe not. patriot act...YES it was needed. Now after the terror shock has just about been exhuasted...the little nazi is becoming blatent about his actions...you wait till they raid Google and TAKE what they want, because they "have" authority. Self proclaimed authority to ANYTHING they want, in the name of national security. There had to be a threat to that security before any of that would fly.

that is the simple level of it, which means absolutely nothing because at that level, anything and everything is true or false... and it has nothing to do with logic, reason, and the true evidence. Which is why I choose to ignore the political aspect of any of it, because it cannot be proven one way or the other...but you cannot cheat science, not even by attaching a fancy adjective to it.

The science is properly applied. If you can explain one thing, explaing the

Anyway, thank you Outriderdark and the others for your *genuine* attention to this. Some people choose to see with their eyes open, others choose to see with them closed.

[troy2000]

I say again: EVERY important event has a dozen wild-eyed conspiracy theories attached to it. Most of them complicate what would seem to be rather straightforward events.

This one's about as straightforward as they come. A building is hit with a jet liner full of fuel by people who have already committed terrorist attacks and threatened more. The impact and the heat of the fire weaken the structure until the floors above collapse into the damaged one, and it starts a chain reaction all the way down. No conspiracy theory you throw at me is going to be a simpler or more believable explanation.

There's a world of difference between having an open mind and having wind whistling between my ears.

[Ctwo]

Troy2000, the only thing that matters at this point is that the real truth will likely come out and I have much greater statistical odds of still being alive to hear it.

"There's a world of difference between having an open mind and having wind whistling between my ears."

Well, pull your fingers out of your ears, bub. It might not open your mind, but I'm sure you'd hear the whistleing.

[GunBanLand]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ange+is%3Afree

Here are the answers to all of your questions, watch this and see what ya'll are missing. As a structural steel engineer with 28 years doing nothing but, I can assure you all that steel does not come down like that without being strategically emploded. Watch the film! It will really open a lot of eyes.

[troy2000]

Okay, last attempt at sanity here, Ctwo. As I said earlier: if I don't think your explanation for what happened is a reasonable one, I don't have to accept it anyway just because I don't have an alternate explanation.

That wouldn't be open minded; it would be simple-minded credulity. And claiming I have to agree with you because I don't know, and you claim you do know, is one of the oldest and most dishonest rhetorical devices around.

[Shaun]

lets cut the personal attacks and resume some decent discussion

[whirlwind]

about the molten steel, i would agree that jet fuel doesnt burn hot enough to melt steel,but in nature very few fuels do. such as coal for instance. throw your fork on your outdoor grill and light the coals its not going to melt the fork...but add a bellows and the proper insulation and poof! instant forge. and then take acetylene for another instance...on its own it wont liquify steel,but add an oxidizer and poof! cutting torch. now im no fire inspector or engineer but the millions of passageways in a rubble pile could serve as a bellows and the pile its self can insulate and god knows there were probably hundreds of oxidizers in that and virtually every other building in the world. just a thought.:right:

[GunBanLand]

Well I posted a link to a Google film called Loose Change. It was an in depth film on the facts of 911 that discusses many if not all of the topics in this thread with fact based information but Shawn decided to delete it and all my posts saying it was spam? Are we allowed to post informative links here? For someone that touts homeland security you just pulled a terrorist type mistake. I was not selling, or advertising anything nor was I promting a view or being biased in any way. It makes me wonder how much more post and thread moulding goes on in gun and game?

[Shaun]

your allowed to post informative links to the forums -- the spam issue is because to same post was found in 5 different places and this is a common tactic used by spammers on this site.

[GunBanLand]

Well wait a minute here Shaun, in your private message to me you stated that you deleted it as I was attacking someone personally in my post who I shall leave namelss since there was no attack on anyone mentioned nor an attack of any kind. Now you say it is because it was listed elsewhere in the forum? Can we get a clarification as to just why you are deleteing posts without being clear here? And excuse me if it was listed elsewhere. Is a link so space taking that it is a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Shaun

your allowed to post informative links to the forums -- the spam issue is because to same post was found in 5 different places and this is a common tactic used by spammers on this site.

[7mmag6]

we do not know you, coming in here with strange posts will get eviction, this site has a very good reputation that we will up hold -- this site is for gun knowledge and this specific forum is for users to post ideas ---you are not making a grand entrance --

[7mmag6]

if you dont like it dont let the door hit you in the but on the way out