Just a thought on Energy/Oil Prices.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 02-02-2006, 05:48 PM

Do you ever wonder if these high prices we are paying is to get us to try to adapt to other sources of energy? Look at the surge in hybrids these last years. There will simply be no need for dual fuel or alternative energy sources if the market didn't demand it. As long as gas is cheap why buy a hybrid car for more money and get less space?

Ever think that our government is allowing this to happen? If so would they be regarded as geniuses in the future or idiots.

Shaun · 02-02-2006, 05:52 PM

I am still a firm believer in fossil fuels -- I don't want batteries powering my cessna

NRAJOE · 02-02-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

I am still a firm believer in fossil fuels -- I don't want batteries powering my cessna

Howza 'bout a giant rubberband then?

dhermesc · 02-02-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

Do you ever wonder if these high prices we are paying is to get us to try to adapt to other sources of energy? Look at the surge in hybrids these last years. There will simply be no need for dual fuel or alternative energy sources if the market didn't demand it. As long as gas is cheap why buy a hybrid car for more money and get less space?
Ever think that our government is allowing this to happen? If so would they be regarded as geniuses in the future or idiots.

Right now Topyota is making a mint on their hybreds through tax breaks. If you check mileage you'll find that it has only increased slightly on most models while they are advertising more power.

Shaun · 02-02-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRAJOE

Howza 'bout a giant rubberband then?

The best solution is to drill anwar and keep all the oil produced in this country in this country plus we need to increase the tariffs on products sent to oil producing countries that are dependant upon us for those products --- want to bet all oil prices will come down then.

Ctwo · 02-02-2006, 06:27 PM

I don't think the gov has any influence in it...not directly anyway. I mean I don't think they could just decide that gas is too high and then just make the prices lower.

I'm sure the current admin is doing whatever it takes to facilitate the rise in prices (kind of like how Bush likes to see a steady flow of illegals across the southern boarder, he did say we "need" them), but it boils down to old fashioned crooked american capatilistic greed. Exxon posted the highest profits ever for any american corp...and Chevron has posted record profits...all the oil boys are rolling in dough.

Personally, I wish they would just jack it up to $8 a gallon. I'm sick of this slow bleeding to death.

troy2000 · 02-02-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

Do you ever wonder if these high prices we are paying is to get us to try to adapt to other sources of energy? Look at the surge in hybrids these last years. There will simply be no need for dual fuel or alternative energy sources if the market didn't demand it. As long as gas is cheap why buy a hybrid car for more money and get less space?
Ever think that our government is allowing this to happen? If so would they be regarded as geniuses in the future or idiots.

The one who said something like, "what worries me is that I'm not sure whether the world is being run by smart people who are, how you say, 'putting us on,' or by idiots who really mean it."

Considering that both Bush and Cheney have oil industry backgrounds, I think we can take at face value their commitment to letting their buddies make money. This is the administration that put a spoke in the wheels of mileage requirements, remember? The one that gave the oil industry incredible tax breaks on top of their obscene profits the last couple of years. And I think it was Bush himself who has defended Exxon's history-making record profits for any company in our history as simply the "workings of a free-market economy."

BattleRifleG3 · 02-03-2006, 01:14 AM

I frankly think we're going about hybrids and electric cars the wrong way.

Safety standards designed to keep dorks from flipping SUVs when driving them like sports cars are holding back a lot of development in my opinion.

Gimme a rugged but spartan vehicle, and it will weigh less, get better mileage, and take less space than the ground hugging sluggish hybrids. Make simple tandem two seater cars and people will be able to afford a gas sipper for commuting and a truck or van for hauling people or stuff, and drive both with the caution required for a jacked up pickup truck, instead of giving the worst of both worlds with ritzy SUVs without enough structure to carry themselves, less space than a station wagon, and the bragging right that their gas mileage is a few MPG better than the other guys.

We need to remember something - trucks/vans/SUVs are much more fuel efficient than cars - per unit volume and weight capacity. If we kept them simple, we could have both worlds instead of trying and failing to get the best of both.

Shaun · 02-03-2006, 01:50 AM

the other thing we need to remember there is an attraction to the larger vehicle I want a lrge truck its so I can crush the idiot who chooses to hit me from the front and if they choose to hit me from behind thier car will have contact with a schedule 40 tube steel bumper

Rufus Rhastus J · 02-03-2006, 08:35 AM

I think we are getting screwed....but, that's not new is it? Hybrid cars are junk. only those who lease cars would be getting a deal. They are maintance nightmares and, (I am a mechanic, i know what I'm talking about) they only get good mileage in town under fourty mph! If you drive highways, you wll get lousey mileage because the engine is underpowered and has to run too hard to make up the speed. Hybrids suck! But, on the flip side, if you lease the POS and drive only in town, you may avoid the comeing expense when battery packs start to fail....and they will...lots sooner than you think. Toyota's POS has the battery packs in the doors and under the rear seat filled with little (about "D" size NiCad )battery packs! Imagine checking for battery problems and how much it's going to cost. And, they already cost about 15% more than the real vehicle without all the junk. Just my opinion.

BattleRifleG3 · 02-03-2006, 09:01 PM

I have read the same things, Rufus. Also that their EPA mpg estimates are unrealistically high. Alternatively, our Korean cars do far better than their EPA ratings. I have gotten up to 45mpg with regular gasoline on the superhighway using cruise control in the 50mph range.

Seems the only reason as many folks are buying hybrids as is has to do with tax incentives and trying to be eco-friendly, but failing to do so.

My view on a fuel efficient vehicle is to not make them so friggin wide and light per unit volume. Make them thin (<4ft) and stiff (takes care of Shaun's concern), give it a 100hp or so 1.0l engine (powerful enough for its weight) make them as uncomplicated as possible, and they could probably sell for 8 or 9k. If some idiot races around a corner and flips it's his stupid fault.

Rufus Rhastus J · 02-05-2006, 09:28 AM

There is a need for economy. I need it! many others need it. But, not a piece of junk that will become a major maintanince nightmare before it is half paid for.

Rave · 02-05-2006, 10:48 AM

It's all about gettin' da money,our money!

:guitar: :guitar: :guitar:

02-02-2006, 05:48 PM	#1
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,192 Images: 1 Blog Entries: 6	Just a thought on Energy/Oil Prices. Do you ever wonder if these high prices we are paying is to get us to try to adapt to other sources of energy? Look at the surge in hybrids these last years. There will simply be no need for dual fuel or alternative energy sources if the market didn't demand it. As long as gas is cheap why buy a hybrid car for more money and get less space? Ever think that our government is allowing this to happen? If so would they be regarded as geniuses in the future or idiots. __________________ Spocrest Out!..........

02-02-2006, 05:52 PM	#2
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,619 Images: 1	I am still a firm believer in fossil fuels -- I don't want batteries powering my cessna __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-03-2006, 01:14 AM	#8
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,454 Images: 13	I frankly think we're going about hybrids and electric cars the wrong way. Safety standards designed to keep dorks from flipping SUVs when driving them like sports cars are holding back a lot of development in my opinion. Gimme a rugged but spartan vehicle, and it will weigh less, get better mileage, and take less space than the ground hugging sluggish hybrids. Make simple tandem two seater cars and people will be able to afford a gas sipper for commuting and a truck or van for hauling people or stuff, and drive both with the caution required for a jacked up pickup truck, instead of giving the worst of both worlds with ritzy SUVs without enough structure to carry themselves, less space than a station wagon, and the bragging right that their gas mileage is a few MPG better than the other guys. We need to remember something - trucks/vans/SUVs are much more fuel efficient than cars - per unit volume and weight capacity. If we kept them simple, we could have both worlds instead of trying and failing to get the best of both. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

02-03-2006, 01:50 AM	#9
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,619 Images: 1	the other thing we need to remember there is an attraction to the larger vehicle I want a lrge truck its so I can crush the idiot who chooses to hit me from the front and if they choose to hit me from behind thier car will have contact with a schedule 40 tube steel bumper __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-03-2006, 08:35 AM	#10
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Images: 1	I think we are getting screwed....but, that's not new is it? Hybrid cars are junk. only those who lease cars would be getting a deal. They are maintance nightmares and, (I am a mechanic, i know what I'm talking about) they only get good mileage in town under fourty mph! If you drive highways, you wll get lousey mileage because the engine is underpowered and has to run too hard to make up the speed. Hybrids suck! But, on the flip side, if you lease the POS and drive only in town, you may avoid the comeing expense when battery packs start to fail....and they will...lots sooner than you think. Toyota's POS has the battery packs in the doors and under the rear seat filled with little (about "D" size NiCad )battery packs! Imagine checking for battery problems and how much it's going to cost. And, they already cost about 15% more than the real vehicle without all the junk. Just my opinion. __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf Last edited by Rufus Rhastus J; 02-05-2006 at 09:26 AM.

02-02-2006, 06:27 PM	#6
Ctwo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 344	I don't think the gov has any influence in it...not directly anyway. I mean I don't think they could just decide that gas is too high and then just make the prices lower. I'm sure the current admin is doing whatever it takes to facilitate the rise in prices (kind of like how Bush likes to see a steady flow of illegals across the southern boarder, he did say we "need" them), but it boils down to old fashioned crooked american capatilistic greed. Exxon posted the highest profits ever for any american corp...and Chevron has posted record profits...all the oil boys are rolling in dough. Personally, I wish they would just jack it up to $8 a gallon. I'm sick of this slow bleeding to death.

02-03-2006, 09:01 PM	#11
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,454 Images: 13	I have read the same things, Rufus. Also that their EPA mpg estimates are unrealistically high. Alternatively, our Korean cars do far better than their EPA ratings. I have gotten up to 45mpg with regular gasoline on the superhighway using cruise control in the 50mph range. Seems the only reason as many folks are buying hybrids as is has to do with tax incentives and trying to be eco-friendly, but failing to do so. My view on a fuel efficient vehicle is to not make them so friggin wide and light per unit volume. Make them thin (<4ft) and stiff (takes care of Shaun's concern), give it a 100hp or so 1.0l engine (powerful enough for its weight) make them as uncomplicated as possible, and they could probably sell for 8 or 9k. If some idiot races around a corner and flips it's his stupid fault. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

02-05-2006, 09:28 AM	#12
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Images: 1	There is a need for economy. I need it! many others need it. But, not a piece of junk that will become a major maintanince nightmare before it is half paid for. __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf

02-05-2006, 10:48 AM	#13
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,053	It's all about gettin' da money,our money! :guitar: :guitar: :guitar: __________________ USAF '62-'66 .