States move to bar protests at soldiers’ funerals

troy2000 · 02-06-2006, 10:14 PM

Fundamentalists’ picketing may provoke clash of privacy, free speech rights
HOCKENBARGER
David Kohl / AP file

COLUMBUS, Ohio - States are rushing to limit when and where people may protest at funerals — all because of a small fundamentalist Kansas church whose members picket soldiers’ burials, arguing that Americans are dying for a country that harbors homosexuals.

During the 1990s, the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., went around picketing the funerals of AIDS victims with protest signs that read, “God Hates Fags.” But politicians began paying more attention recently when church members started showing up at the burials of soldiers and Marines killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Legislation is being considered in at least 14 states, and several of the bills moving quickly, with backing from legislative leaders and governors.

If they pass, the bills could set up a clash between privacy and free speech rights, and court challenges are almost certain.

“We’re not proposing to silence the speech of the Westboro Baptist Church, as offensive as most of us find that,” said Kansas Senate Majority Leader Derek Schmidt, a Republican. Instead, he said, he is trying to achieve a balance that respects “the rights of families to bury their dead in peace.”

The church has about 75 members, most of them belonging to the extended family of Westboro Baptist’s pastor, the Rev. Fred Phelps. The church is an independent congregation that preaches a literal reading of the Bible.

Shirley Phelps-Roper, Phelps’ daughter and an attorney for the church, said states cannot interfere with their message that the soldiers were struck down by God because they were fighting for a country that harbors homosexuals and adulterers.

Lawmakers are “trying to introduce something that will make them feel better about the holes we’re punching in the facade they live under,” Phelps-Roper said. “If they pass a law that gets in our way, they will be violating the Constitution, and we will sue them for that.”

Among the states considering such measures: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

Some of the bills specify noisy, disruptive behavior or signs with “fighting words,” as in Wisconsin. Some bar protests within one or two hours before or after a funeral starts; others specify distances ranging from 10 car lengths to five blocks away; some include both.

Violations can bring fines of a few hundred dollars, up to 30 days in jail, or more. Wisconsin is calling for fines of up to $10,000; one of five Oklahoma bills would set a one-year jail sentence.

Missouri’s bill was named for Army Spc. Edward Lee Myers, 21, whose wife went to his funeral an hour early to try to avoid protesters. They were already across the road, holding signs that read “God Hates Fags” and “God Made IEDs,” a reference to roadside bombs.

Her 5-year-old son kept asking why “mean people” were outside, undercover agents were in the church, and she worried that angry relatives might start a fight.

“I couldn’t even pay my last respects because of everything that was going on,” Jean Myers said.

Legislation against funeral protests was also introduced in West Virginia last month after a small knot of protesters from Westboro Baptist demonstrated outside a memorial for the 12 men killed in the Sago Mine disaster. The protesters held signs reading, “Thank God for Dead Miners,” “God Hates Your Tears” and “Miners in !!!!,” arguing that the miners’ deaths were a sign of God’s wrath at America for tolerating gays.

“It’s just inhuman for a group that says it’s coming in the name of the Lord to protest a funeral,” said state Delegate Jeff Eldridge, a co-sponsor of the West Virginia bill.

If such restrictions are challenged, the courts will probably look to rulings on laws governing abortion protests, constitutional scholars said.

The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Florida ban on peaceful picketing within 300 feet of an abortion clinic, but allowed restrictions on behavior that impedes access to a clinic. However, the courts have allowed restrictions on picketing in front of doctors’ houses, saying privacy trumps free speech.

The question is whether a church, funeral home or cemetery is considered private or public during a ceremony, said Eugene Volokh, a law professor at the University of California at Los Angeles.

Shaun · 02-06-2006, 11:27 PM

there should never be a protest at a funeral its disgraceful to the person who has sacrificed their life

Troy · 02-07-2006, 12:05 AM

god have mercy on anyone protesting a funeral that i attend, cause i won't. what a disgusting display of stupidity.

.22guy · 02-07-2006, 12:24 AM

These stupid people were supposed to come to my town to protest the funeral of a solider killed in Iraq. His wife (several months pregnant, by the way) was very gracious and told everyone to ignore them (she had 'invited' the public to come). She said that her husband had died to protect their rights to free speech. I don't think I would have felt that way if it was me.

What a bunch of sickos, they are no better than the Muslim terrorists.

.22guy · 02-07-2006, 12:24 AM

They didn't show up, by the way.

WetKnife · 02-07-2006, 01:06 AM

Ya it would piss me off ! But !!!! you gotta love the sign "God Hates Fags" ! I heard they had their kids toting the signs . Peaceful protest is fine , throwing handgrenades like they did in Belfast or car bombs in Iraq is notta so good.

Mooseman684 · 02-07-2006, 01:17 AM

Maybe its time to use LIVE ammo for the Salute.....OOPS !:insane:

whirlwind · 02-07-2006, 01:33 AM

ive never heard about this before...what kind of sick freak would ever even think of protesting at a funeral?whoa!...talk about rediculous!

BattleRifleG3 · 02-07-2006, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

The church is an independent congregation that preaches a literal reading of the Bible.

Apparently not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

The church has about 75 members, most of them belonging to the extended family of Westboro Baptist’s pastor, the Rev. Fred Phelps.

Figures.

troy2000 · 02-07-2006, 07:54 AM

When that gay college kid was tied to a fence post one winter night in Wyoming, beaten bloody and left to die, these are the sickos who showed up at his funeral with signs saying, "God hates Fags," and "Burn in !!!!, Matthew."

Rufus Rhastus J · 02-07-2006, 07:56 AM

I think that the peole need to bury thier dead without harassment from protesters. There is such a thing as bad taste. Protesting at a funeral is surly in bad taste!

Rave · 02-07-2006, 08:04 AM

It has been said that there is a time and a place for everything,this is neither.:insane:

Shaun · 02-07-2006, 08:07 AM

this sounds like the same group that showed up here at the funerals of two local Guard memebers -- we had a solution all LEO's had an arrest on sight order from the sheriff and the local citizens made our statements of support.

Gunnie Ed · 02-07-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .22guy

They didn't show up, by the way.

That's because they were welcomed. they're like reverse vampires, they only go where they aren't invited.

People have the right to dispose of their dead in peace. nobody has the right to harrass funeral goers.

FutureMarine · 02-07-2006, 11:54 AM

It must be a true mental disorder. How can they not see how these people are protecting THEIR freedom as well as everyone elses

troy2000 · 02-07-2006, 06:00 PM

I think that minister has fantasies about little boys, and this is his coping mechanism.

And if they peeled the children of his congregation away from their parents and really talked to them, it wouldn't surprise me to find out they're more than fantasies.

.22guy · 02-07-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnie Ed

That's because they were welcomed. they're like reverse vampires, they only go where they aren't invited.

I think you're right. The wife of the soldier was young, but quite a lady. Our city was taken with her humbleness. A local radio station even threw her a public baby shower and she got a lot of stuff.

mudtoy67 · 02-07-2006, 10:36 PM

Have you guys seen this? I'm glad to see there's people out there who love to spend their time defending the families of fallen soldiers from those shameless insensitive protesters (it's hard not to cuss when talking about them).

http://www.patriotguard.org/

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone on another forum

I was in Garden City KS for a family member funeral and because of family matters, I was not able to attend the memorial service for Clint Upchurch, a private first class with the 101st Airborne Division and a Garden City resident, was killed in Samarra, Iraq, Jan. 7 by small-arms fire after the convoy he led hit a mine. Some of my family that live there did attend and sent me these photos. The Patriot Guard attend only when invited by the family and act as a buffer against the protesters. If the protesters get loud, the Patriot Guard will drown them out with the bikes. 100 Patriot Guards is pretty loud.

Pic-

Shaun · 02-08-2006, 08:10 AM

Protestors To Picket Ceremony For Fallen Ft. Campbell Soldiers
Posted: 2/8/2006 7

00 AM
Updated: 2/8/2006 7:44:11 AM

The remembrance ceremony, which honors those soldiers killed in battle, will be held Wednesday afternoon at Fort Campbell. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church from Topeka, Kansas also plan to be on hand, holding signs and protesting the ceremony.

The church is known for its controversial views, including the belief that war and natural disasters are God’s way of punishing America. In the past, church members have even picketed soldiers’ funerals.

Family members of fallen soldiers, along with those who still have loved ones fighting overseas have planned a peaceful counter-rally.

”We have to do our part as military wives, and we have to be able to depend on each other. If we can’t depend on each other while our husbands are gone, there isn’t anyone else we can depend on. We have each other and that’s it, and our husbands are over there fighting for our rights and everybody else’s rights so we have to fight for them while they’re over there,” said Jennifer Egleston, the wife of a Fort Campbell soldier.

The remembrance ceremony is scheduled for 5:00 Wednesday afternoon. The protestors have only been given a 30-minute window from 5:00 – 5:30 to protest, and they’ll only be allowed to do so on the public street outside the base. No protestors will be allowed on post.

Rufus Rhastus J · 02-08-2006, 08:17 AM

saw on TV how they were talkin' 'bout a law but, that these folks could show up with signs and there was'nt nothin' anyone could do about it....well, me thinks that some paid vigilantes (read: "Good Citizens") might just wander over and kick thier butts before the law dogs could do a thing about it! Some folks just need to be taught a lesson. Just because it's legal don't make it morally correct.

02-06-2006, 10:14 PM	#1
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 8,909 Trader Rating: (0)	States move to bar protests at soldiers’ funerals Fundamentalists’ picketing may provoke clash of privacy, free speech rights HOCKENBARGER David Kohl / AP file COLUMBUS, Ohio - States are rushing to limit when and where people may protest at funerals — all because of a small fundamentalist Kansas church whose members picket soldiers’ burials, arguing that Americans are dying for a country that harbors homosexuals. During the 1990s, the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., went around picketing the funerals of AIDS victims with protest signs that read, “God Hates Fags.” But politicians began paying more attention recently when church members started showing up at the burials of soldiers and Marines killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Legislation is being considered in at least 14 states, and several of the bills moving quickly, with backing from legislative leaders and governors. If they pass, the bills could set up a clash between privacy and free speech rights, and court challenges are almost certain. “We’re not proposing to silence the speech of the Westboro Baptist Church, as offensive as most of us find that,” said Kansas Senate Majority Leader Derek Schmidt, a Republican. Instead, he said, he is trying to achieve a balance that respects “the rights of families to bury their dead in peace.” The church has about 75 members, most of them belonging to the extended family of Westboro Baptist’s pastor, the Rev. Fred Phelps. The church is an independent congregation that preaches a literal reading of the Bible. Shirley Phelps-Roper, Phelps’ daughter and an attorney for the church, said states cannot interfere with their message that the soldiers were struck down by God because they were fighting for a country that harbors homosexuals and adulterers. Lawmakers are “trying to introduce something that will make them feel better about the holes we’re punching in the facade they live under,” Phelps-Roper said. “If they pass a law that gets in our way, they will be violating the Constitution, and we will sue them for that.” Among the states considering such measures: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin. Some of the bills specify noisy, disruptive behavior or signs with “fighting words,” as in Wisconsin. Some bar protests within one or two hours before or after a funeral starts; others specify distances ranging from 10 car lengths to five blocks away; some include both. Violations can bring fines of a few hundred dollars, up to 30 days in jail, or more. Wisconsin is calling for fines of up to $10,000; one of five Oklahoma bills would set a one-year jail sentence. Missouri’s bill was named for Army Spc. Edward Lee Myers, 21, whose wife went to his funeral an hour early to try to avoid protesters. They were already across the road, holding signs that read “God Hates Fags” and “God Made IEDs,” a reference to roadside bombs. Her 5-year-old son kept asking why “mean people” were outside, undercover agents were in the church, and she worried that angry relatives might start a fight. “I couldn’t even pay my last respects because of everything that was going on,” Jean Myers said. Legislation against funeral protests was also introduced in West Virginia last month after a small knot of protesters from Westboro Baptist demonstrated outside a memorial for the 12 men killed in the Sago Mine disaster. The protesters held signs reading, “Thank God for Dead Miners,” “God Hates Your Tears” and “Miners in !!!!,” arguing that the miners’ deaths were a sign of God’s wrath at America for tolerating gays. “It’s just inhuman for a group that says it’s coming in the name of the Lord to protest a funeral,” said state Delegate Jeff Eldridge, a co-sponsor of the West Virginia bill. If such restrictions are challenged, the courts will probably look to rulings on laws governing abortion protests, constitutional scholars said. The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Florida ban on peaceful picketing within 300 feet of an abortion clinic, but allowed restrictions on behavior that impedes access to a clinic. However, the courts have allowed restrictions on picketing in front of doctors’ houses, saying privacy trumps free speech. The question is whether a church, funeral home or cemetery is considered private or public during a ceremony, said Eugene Volokh, a law professor at the University of California at Los Angeles.

02-06-2006, 11:27 PM	#2
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	there should never be a protest at a funeral its disgraceful to the person who has sacrificed their life __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-07-2006, 01:17 AM	#7
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,198 Trader Rating: (0)	Maybe its time to use LIVE ammo for the Salute.....OOPS !:insane: __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-07-2006, 01:33 AM	#8
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,728 Trader Rating: (0)	ive never heard about this before...what kind of sick freak would ever even think of protesting at a funeral?whoa!...talk about rediculous! __________________ De oppresso liber !

02-07-2006, 07:56 AM	#11
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Trader Rating: (0)	I think that the peole need to bury thier dead without harassment from protesters. There is such a thing as bad taste. Protesting at a funeral is surly in bad taste! __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf

02-07-2006, 12:05 AM	#3
Troy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manitoba Canada Posts: 2,499 Trader Rating: (0)	god have mercy on anyone protesting a funeral that i attend, cause i won't. what a disgusting display of stupidity.

02-07-2006, 12:24 AM	#4
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,059 Trader Rating: (0)	These stupid people were supposed to come to my town to protest the funeral of a solider killed in Iraq. His wife (several months pregnant, by the way) was very gracious and told everyone to ignore them (she had 'invited' the public to come). She said that her husband had died to protect their rights to free speech. I don't think I would have felt that way if it was me. What a bunch of sickos, they are no better than the Muslim terrorists.

02-07-2006, 01:06 AM	#6
WetKnife Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 239 Trader Rating: (0)	Ya it would piss me off ! But !!!! you gotta love the sign "God Hates Fags" ! I heard they had their kids toting the signs . Peaceful protest is fine , throwing handgrenades like they did in Belfast or car bombs in Iraq is notta so good.

02-07-2006, 07:54 AM	#10
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 8,909 Trader Rating: (0)	When that gay college kid was tied to a fence post one winter night in Wyoming, beaten bloody and left to die, these are the sickos who showed up at his funeral with signs saying, "God hates Fags," and "Burn in !!!!, Matthew."

02-07-2006, 08:04 AM	#12
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,735 Trader Rating: (0)	It has been said that there is a time and a place for everything,this is neither.:insane: __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

02-07-2006, 08:07 AM	#13
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	this sounds like the same group that showed up here at the funerals of two local Guard memebers -- we had a solution all LEO's had an arrest on sight order from the sheriff and the local citizens made our statements of support. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-07-2006, 11:54 AM	#15
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,946 Trader Rating: (0)	It must be a true mental disorder. How can they not see how these people are protecting THEIR freedom as well as everyone elses

02-07-2006, 06:00 PM	#16
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 8,909 Trader Rating: (0)	I think that minister has fantasies about little boys, and this is his coping mechanism. And if they peeled the children of his congregation away from their parents and really talked to them, it wouldn't surprise me to find out they're more than fantasies.

02-08-2006, 08:10 AM	#19
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	these fools protesting at a funeral need to die Protestors To Picket Ceremony For Fallen Ft. Campbell Soldiers Posted: 2/8/2006 700 AM Updated: 2/8/2006 7:44:11 AM The remembrance ceremony, which honors those soldiers killed in battle, will be held Wednesday afternoon at Fort Campbell. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church from Topeka, Kansas also plan to be on hand, holding signs and protesting the ceremony. The church is known for its controversial views, including the belief that war and natural disasters are God’s way of punishing America. In the past, church members have even picketed soldiers’ funerals. Family members of fallen soldiers, along with those who still have loved ones fighting overseas have planned a peaceful counter-rally. ”We have to do our part as military wives, and we have to be able to depend on each other. If we can’t depend on each other while our husbands are gone, there isn’t anyone else we can depend on. We have each other and that’s it, and our husbands are over there fighting for our rights and everybody else’s rights so we have to fight for them while they’re over there,” said Jennifer Egleston, the wife of a Fort Campbell soldier. The remembrance ceremony is scheduled for 5:00 Wednesday afternoon. The protestors have only been given a 30-minute window from 5:00 – 5:30 to protest, and they’ll only be allowed to do so on the public street outside the base. No protestors will be allowed on post. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-08-2006, 08:17 AM	#20
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Trader Rating: (0)	saw on TV how they were talkin' 'bout a law but, that these folks could show up with signs and there was'nt nothin' anyone could do about it....well, me thinks that some paid vigilantes (read: "Good Citizens") might just wander over and kick thier butts before the law dogs could do a thing about it! Some folks just need to be taught a lesson. Just because it's legal don't make it morally correct. __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf