federal budget

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

YOUR tax dollars at work!!!!
I seem to recall Bill Clintons way of lowering the Unemployment rate was to create more Government Jobs....Then he signed NAFTA and Now it's
"Hecho en Mexico"....

And I'm not wild about NAFTA, but he couldn't have signed it if a Republican Congress hadn't passed it.

[troy2000]

By the time he came up for re-election, I had become downright fond of anyone who could send people like Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson into a foaming-mouthed frenzy.

But I never considered him to be much of a Democrat; he was more like Republican Light.

In other words, I'm not exactly a True-Believer Democrat. I just consider the Republicans the greater menace to the country right now.

[Outriderdark]

Personally, I think with the exception of hard right religious politicians and extreme leftist socialists, they're all in cahoots.

Did I just say cahoots? I must be watching too many Gaby Hayes flicks.

[Apollyon67]

Troy. I do not believe it is the government's job to feed us. There is a good reason to Tithe to the Church, it ain't al about repairing a leaky roof. If a man doesn't work, neither shall he eat.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by Shaun

its simple to trim get rid of democraps and all their little programs the budget would be cut in half.

Not necessarily; It was Bush and the republicans that pushed through the big Education bill and the Medicare spending bill.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

[quote=troy2000]By the time he came up for re-election, I had become downright fond of anyone who could send people like Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson into a foaming-mouthed frenzy.
QUOTE]


How could anyone who is a 2nd amendment supporter vote for Bill Clinton the second time around?

[Outriderdark]

Originally Posted by Apollyon67

Troy. I do not believe it is the government's job to feed us. There is a good reason to Tithe to the Church, it ain't al about repairing a leaky roof. If a man doesn't work, neither shall he eat.

Which church would that be?

"He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again."
Proverbs 19:7

"In case some one of your brothers becomes poor among you in one of your cities, in your land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not harden your heart or be closefisted toward your poor brother. For you should generously open your hand to him and by all means lend him on pledge as much as he needs, which he is in want of... You should by all means give to him, and your heart should not be stingy in your giving to him, because on this account Jehovah your God will bless you in every deed of yours and in every undertaking of yours. For someone poor will never cease to be in the midst of the land. That is why I am commanding you, saying, 'You should generously open up your hand to your afflicted and poor brother in your land." Deut 15:7-11

"My brothers, what use is it for a man to say he has faith when he does nothing to show it? Can that faith save him? Suppose a brother or a sister is in rags with not enough food for the day, and one of you says, 'Good luck to you, keep yourselves warm, and have plenty to eat', but does nothing to supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So with faith; if it does not lead to action, it is in itself a lifeless thing." James 2:14-17

I'm not religious in any way but wouldn't it seem that neglecting the poor, whether as individuals or as a society would tick the Almighty off?

But of course bringing religion into a discussion about the Federal Budget seems odd at best.

[Mooseman684]

No scriptures to quote, but I will say this...If the Church can make it on 10%,
Then Why can't our Government ????

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Apollyon67

Troy. I do not believe it is the government's job to feed us. There is a good reason to Tithe to the Church, it ain't al about repairing a leaky roof. If a man doesn't work, neither shall he eat.

Don't talk religion to me as an excuse for saying FDR should have let my father starve. I don't think that's what Jesus had in mind.

There were millions of people hungry during the Depression. And most of the ones the government fed, it fed on a short-term basis. The work programs that fed millions of others strengthened the country's infrastructure, and we're still reaping the benefits.

I personally have never taken a dime of welfare or any other charity, public or private. But I don't begrudge giving up some of what I make to take care of others. And I've had enough people try to stick it to me in the name of the Lord that I'd just as soon trust the government as my local preachers and priests, thank you.

If the churches did such an all-fired great job of taking care of people, half the New Deal wouldn't have been needed. And if going to church kept employers, company heads, stockbrokers and bankers honest, the other half wouldn't have been needed, either.

[troy2000]

[quote=SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by troy2000

By the time he came up for re-election, I had become downright fond of anyone who could send people like Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson into a foaming-mouthed frenzy.
QUOTE]
How could anyone who is a 2nd amendment supporter vote for Bill Clinton the second time around?

There are other important issues.

How could anyone who believes in fiscal responsibility, small government, privacy and the other nine amendments in the Bill of Rights vote for Bush second time around?

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

No scriptures to quote, but I will say this...If the Church can make it on 10%,
Then Why can't our Government ????

Nor does it support an army.

Pie in the sky comes a lot cheaper than the stuff the government does...you'll have to decide for yourself whether what you get for your money from the Church is worth what you pay.

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Well, i think bush sucks. My only hope is whom ever replaces him, I hope they don't suck even worse.

[Apollyon67]

I reckon youall missed my point. Troy, I didn't mean that your parents and grandfather should have starved. It is not the governments job to make sure you have food on the table. All the taxes in the world should be used to govern, not support. As for the Church I mentioned. If one Church isn't to your liking, there are hundreds of others to take its place. Crooked people are everywhere. When you find a decent congregation, it will grow. This is where the money can come from. If you could give the people you helped in life support, as yourself, or part of a Church organization, would you want the government to tell them how they should use that support? Rest assured, many folks did not make it through the Depression alive. Its a sad loss indeed. This is a Great Country with many great citizens. Good stong leaders from all imaginable casts. We need to let the government keep the boarders safe, and let the people take care of each other.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Apollyon67

I reckon youall missed my point. Troy, I didn't mean that your parents and grandfather should have starved. It is not the governments job to make sure you have food on the table. All the taxes in the world should be used to govern, not support. As for the Church I mentioned. If one Church isn't to your liking, there are hundreds of others to take its place. Crooked people are everywhere. When you find a decent congregation, it will grow. This is where the money can come from. If you could give the people you helped in life support, as yourself, or part of a Church organization, would you want the government to tell them how they should use that support? Rest assured, many folks did not make it through the Depression alive. Its a sad loss indeed. This is a Great Country with many great citizens. Good stong leaders from all imaginable casts. We need to let the government keep the boarders safe, and let the people take care of each other.

But the reality is that if the government hadn't stepped in as the last hope in desperate circumstances, my dad (and a lot of other people) might not have made it. And if "the people" had been capable of taking care of each other properly without government help, through churches or otherwise, it wouldn't have been necessary.

The fact that we haven't had another ruinous economic collapse since the Great Depression is attributable in no small part to the reforms and supervision of the banking industry and stock market that FDR instituted as part of the New Deal. Before that, panics or depressions or whatever you want to call them happened regularly.

[Mooseman684]

The Great Depression was the worst economic slump ever in U.S. history, and one which spread to virtually all of the industrialized world. The depression began in late 1929 and lasted for about a decade. Many factors played a role in bringing about the depression; however, the main cause for the Great Depression was the combination of the greatly unequal distribution of wealth throughout the 1920's, and the extensive stock market speculation that took place during the latter part that same decade. The maldistribution of wealth in the 1920's existed on many levels. Money was distributed disparately between the rich and the middle-class, between industry and agriculture within the United States, and between the U.S. and Europe. This imbalance of wealth created an unstable economy. The excessive speculation in the late 1920's kept the stock market artificially high, but eventually lead to large market crashes. These market crashes, combined with the maldistribution of wealth, caused the American economy to capsize.The federal government also contributed to the growing gap between the rich and middle-class. Calvin Coolidge's administration (and the conservative-controlled government) favored business, and as a result the wealthy who invested in these businesses. An example of legislation to this purpose is the Revenue Act of 1926, signed by President Coolidge on February 26, 1926, which reduced federal income and inheritance taxes dramatically.
Through such a period of imbalance, the U.S. came to rely upon two things in order for the economy to remain on an even keel: credit sales, and luxury spending and investment from the rich.
In the 1920's the United States was trying "to be the world's banker, food producer, and manufacturer, but to buy as little as possible from the world in return." This attempt to have a constantly favorable trade balance could not succeed for long. The United States maintained high trade barriers so as to protect American business, but if the United States would not buy from our European counterparts, then there was no way for them to buy from the Americans, or even to pay interest on U.S. loans. The weakness of the international economy certainly contributed to the Great Depression.Mass speculation went on throughout the late 1920's. In 1929 alone, a record volume of 1,124,800,410 shares were traded on the New York Stock Exchange38. From early 1928 to September 1929 the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose from 191 to 381.This sort of profit was irresistible to investors. Company earnings became of little interest; as long as stock prices continued to rise huge profits could be made.
The speculative boom in the stock market was based upon confidence. In the same way, the huge market crashes of 1929 were based on fear.

Prices had been drifting downward since September 3, but generally people where optimistic. Speculators continued to flock to the market. Then, on Monday October 21 prices started to fall quickly. The volume was so great that the ticker fell behind. Investors became fearful. Knowing that prices were falling, but not by how much, they started selling quickly. This caused the collapse to happen faster. Prices stabilized a little on Tuesday and Wednesday, but then on Black Thursday, October 24, everything fell apart again. By this time most major investors had lost confidence in the market. Once enough investors had decided the boom was over, it was over. Partial recovery was achieved on Friday and Saturday when a group of leading bankers stepped in to try to stop the crash. But then on Monday the 28th prices started dropping again. By the end of the day the market had fallen 13%. The next day, Black Tuesday an unprecedented 16.4 million shares changed hands. Stocks fell so much, that at many times during the day no buyers were available at any price.The middle-class and poor stopped buying things with installment credit for fear of loosing their jobs, and not being able to pay the interest. As a result industrial production fell by more than 9% between the market crashes in October and December 1929. As a result jobs were lost, and soon people starting defaulting on their interest payment. Radios and cars bought with installment credit had to be returned. All of the sudden warehouses were piling up with inventory. The thriving industries that had been connected with the automobile and radio industries started falling apart. Without a car people did not need fuel or tires; without a radio people had less need for electricity. On the international scene, the rich had practically stopped lending money to foreign countries. With such tremendous profits to be made in the stock market nobody wanted to make low interest loans. To protect the nation's businesses the U.S. imposed higher trade barriers (Hawley-Smoot Tariff of 1930). Foreigners stopped buying American products. More jobs were lost, more stores were closed, more banks went under, and more factories closed. Unemployment grew to five million in 1930, and up to thirteen million in 1932. The country spiraled quickly into catastrophe. The Great Depression had begun. Today even with FDIC insurance, if the money is no good, or the banks are closed, it is a worthless
Guarantee.period. Money is ONLY worth something if someone will take it in trade for what you need. That's the bottom line ! Does anyone else see what's happening Today resembles what was happening back then ???
Brother, can you spare a dime ....

[Rufus Rhastus J]

That's why I have property.....maybe, if I am lucky, I'll be able to eat from the garden and blast bambi for food. pray it don't come to that.

[Mooseman684]

Originally Posted by Rufus Rhastus J

That's why I have property.....maybe, if I am lucky, I'll be able to eat from the garden and blast bambi for food. pray it don't come to that.

AMEN...Rufus...AMEN !!!:right:

[Rufus Rhastus J]

Thank you, but, it seems the only answer when folks paint the picture they are painting.

[Rave]

Heck,at that rate the third worlders will have it better than us!:drink: