Mississippi Set to ban Abortion

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

Yes, it would cheese off the pro-death crowd, but I don't believe it would ensure a Dem victory. Considering that the pro aborts are in the minority, I believe that the majority are ready for a return to sanity regarding the issue. The young voters are probably more conservative than they have been in many years, seeing what has been layed on their backs and the permissive previous generations have done to them economically and morally. I see it quite a bit.

Unless you can, I will continue to seriously doubt that the majority of people in this country want to make abortion illegal again.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

Yes, you CAN and WE DO legislate morality.

Troy; You miss the point you can't legislate morality and think the problems will just go away. "I don't like your behavior so its illegal" this moronic thinking has given us gun laws

You know what I was talking about!

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

We have laws against murder, theft, bribery, insider trading, monopolies, and when to stop at an intersection.

Yet these acts occur hundreds of times each day....... Good thing we have laws to stop this.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

Yet these acts occur hundreds of times each day....... Good thing we have laws to stop this.

That is why I pointed out that there are lawless people who do such acts. They will act lawlessly regardless of the forbidden act. A good example is that just this evening, I went to my local CVS pharmacy. My wife and I both got head colds this week. I was out of nasal spray and wanted to pick up some pseudafed. I had to get some store brand OTC medication from the pharmacy, show my driver's license, and sign a log book in order to get it. Lawless people here in NC are using pseudafed type products to make meth. The NC General Assembly thought that it would be a good idea to limit the availability of cold medication because bad people were doing bad things with the normally beneficial product. Therefore, you have to be majorly inconvenienced in order to obtain a lawful product because idiots use it for unlawful practices.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by the demanding pessimist

Can you point me to some statistics on that, troylaplante?

Sure can. I can cast a few pearls in your direction. I will not, however, debate the source of the info, the bias, the legitimacy, yadda, yadda, yadda. Only because you asked for some, I will start you off. The rest is totally UP TO YOU. In times past, you have merely discounted info based upon the aformentioned, so I refuse to get into it with you or debate the point any further. To be civil, however, I will point you in the direction of some info for your reading pleasure and LEAVE IT AT THAT.

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=6982
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abo...rtionstats.htm
http://www.euthanasia.com/poll.html
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031106.html

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

Sure can. I can cast a few pearls in your direction. I will not, however, debate the source of the info, the bias, the legitimacy, yadda, yadda, yadda. Only because you asked for some, I will start you off. The rest is totally UP TO YOU. In times past, you have merely discounted info based upon the aformentioned, so I refuse to get into it with you or debate the point any further. To be civil, however, I will point you in the direction of some info for your reading pleasure and LEAVE IT AT THAT.

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=6982
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abo...rtionstats.htm
http://www.euthanasia.com/poll.html
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031106.html

A lot of interesting statistics, mixed with some raw propoganda. But the numbers themselves seem legitimate. In totality, they seem to show that the majority of people in this country don't approve of abortions, and that the number is rising.

However, none of the sites said the majority think abortion should be illegal. The one that came closest to discussing legality was LifeSite, which quoted a Harris Poll from a year ago. That poll said people still support Roe vs Wade by a 52% to 47% margin.

Close, but no cigar.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

I had to get some store brand OTC medication from the pharmacy, show my driver's license, and sign a log book in order to get it. Lawless people here in NC are using pseudafed type products to make meth. The NC General Assembly thought that it would be a good idea to limit the availability of cold medication because bad people were doing bad things with the normally beneficial product. Therefore, you have to be majorly inconvenienced in order to obtain a lawful product because idiots use it for unlawful practices.

Yeah I remember this law. Biggest bunch of bullcrap I have ever heard of. If I go in and buy 1 pack of cold medication then I am sick. If I buy 20 then I am a meth dealer. Make you sign a log book to buy cold medication. Man I am sooooo glad I left that hellhole. When is its the state's business to know when you are sick. This won't stop Meth dealing anymore than drug laws will stop drug use.

I do agree you need laws to punish acts in which tresspass on others freedoms and rights; however the base cause of the laws are to punish the crime, not to teach any moral lesson.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by troy2000

A lot of interesting statistics, mixed with some raw propoganda.

Typical.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by troy2000

In totality, they seem to show that the majority of people in this country don't approve of abortions, and that the number is rising.
However, none of the sites said the majority think abortion should be illegal.

They are the same thing. You either support infanticide or you don't. I guess it all depends upon what the definition of "is" is.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

Man I am sooooo glad I left that hellhole.

But SC is one of the few states that NC can still make fun of.

This won't stop Meth dealing anymore than drug laws will stop drug use.

:nod:

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

But SC is one of the few states that NC can still make fun of. :nod:

Down here we refer to you boys as Yankees:cheer:

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

They are the same thing. You either support infanticide or you don't. I guess it all depends upon what the definition of "is" is.

Saying you disapprove of something is a long way from saying you think it should be against the law.

the links you provided are the perfect example. They show that the majority of people disapprove of abortion, but that only 47 percent think Roe vs Wade should be overturned.

Unlike some people, I don't think that everything I believe should be enforced with policemen, judges and prisons. There are a lot of things that the law handles poorly.

Simple-sounding arguments like, "you either support infanticide or you don't" are worse than black and white, and not really simple at all. they contain multiple layers of intellectual dishonesty.

First, you've re-named and re-defined what you're against to make it sound more reprehensible (nowhere in a Webster's will you find "infanticide" as a definition of abortion, or "abortion" as an example of infanticide).

You also equate "disapproves" and "is against" with "believes it should be illegal" (I disapprove of fat women showing their belly buttons in public, but I don't think they should go to jail for it), and imply that thinking something shouldn't be addressed by the law is the same as promoting and encouraging it.

Finally, you lump a broad swath of beliefs and actions into one "yes or no" proposition, as though using a condom or a morning-after pill equals carving an 8-month-old baby out of the womb, or as though an abortion to spare an already-traumatized rape victim more anguish is the same as aborting a female because the parents wanted another boy, and as though all of those carried no more weight than termininating an anencephalic baby (one with a brain stem but no higher brain), instead of delivering it so that it can die within a few hours.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Unlike some people, I don't think that everything I believe should be enforced with policemen, judges and prisons. There are a lot of things that the law handles poorly.

Oooh I like that phrase; right along the libertarian line.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Simple-sounding arguments like, "you either support infanticide or you don't" are worse than black and white, and not really simple at all. they contain multiple layers of intellectual dishonesty.

No, abortion IS infanticide

First, you've re-named and re-defined what you're against to make it sound more reprehensible (nowhere in a Webster's will you find "infanticide" as a definition of abortion, or "abortion" as an example of infanticide).

It still does not mean I am wrong. As if Webster's was the final authority on the matter...

as though using a condom or a morning-after pill equals carving an 8-month-old baby out of the womb

Again, an inaccurate comparison. Prevention of conception is not the same as termination. I am all for the idea of prevention of conception, if desired. There is a huge difference.

as though an abortion to spare an already-traumatized rape victim more anguish

As if that is common or even equates to the termination of LIFE.

is the same as aborting a female because the parents wanted another boy

Dead baby = dead baby, regardless of the intent behind it.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Unlike some people, I don't think that everything I believe should be enforced with policemen, judges and prisons.

Neither do I. You just inaccurately assume that I do.

[troy2000]

Is an apple seed a tree?

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

Here we go again..................

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by troy2000

First, you've re-named and re-defined what you're against to make it sound more reprehensible (nowhere in a Webster's will you find "infanticide" as a definition of abortion, or "abortion" as an example of infanticide).

Infanticide
Main Entry: in·fan·ti·cide
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin infanticidium, from Latin infant-, infans + -i- + -cidium -cide
1 : the killing of an infant

That sums it up for me. To think differently is the true intellectual dishonesty. I even used your citation of an authority on the topic.

A puppy is not yet a mature dog. Left to mature, it will be a dog. An embryo is going to be a baby. Your apple seed argument is fallacious, since a seed does not necessarily become a plant. In the case of an embryo, the seed has ALREADY taken hold on an egg, fertilized it, and the zygote has already implanted in the womb. It has started to grow for several weeks before anyone is even aware of its existence. It will become a fully mature baby unless interrupted by disease, trauma, medical condition, or surgery. There is no viable parallel in your attempt at an analogy.

That is all I need to and will say.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

Infanticide
Main Entry: in·fan·ti·cide
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin infanticidium, from Latin infant-, infans + -i- + -cidium -cide
1 : the killing of an infant

That sums it up for me. To think differently is the true intellectual dishonesty. I even used your citation of an authority on the topic.

A puppy is not yet a mature dog. Left to mature, it will be a dog. An embryo is going to be a baby. Your apple seed argument is fallacious, since a seed does not necessarily become a plant. In the case of an embryo, the seed has ALREADY taken hold on an egg, fertilized it, and the zygote has already implanted in the womb. It has started to grow for several weeks before anyone is even aware of its existence. It will become a fully mature baby unless interrupted by disease, trauma, medical condition, or surgery. There is no viable parallel in your attempt at an analogy.

That is all I need to and will say.

or pollinated, if you prefer; if there had been no sexual union between male and female, the seed would not have formed and grown to the planting stage.

And an embro is no more a baby than a baby is an adult; you've been calling it a baby or an infant because that has more emotional appeal.

But you finally stated your position in a manner I can respect: an embro is a potential baby, and you don't believe it's right to stop it from becoming one.

Fair enough. I happen to think there are rare times when it's warranted.

And accusing me of therefore promoting infanticide may play well to a choir that's already singing your tune, but it's hardly going to change my mind.

Perhaps you should sit down and apply your intellect to figuring out how to change people's minds, rather than insulting them.

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by troy2000, as he looked in the mirror

Perhaps you should sit down and apply your intellect to figuring out how to change people's minds, rather than insulting them.

.