Mississippi Set to ban Abortion

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-01-2006, 07:38 PM

Well the Dems said it would happen.....

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/13984932.htm

troy2000 · 03-01-2006, 10:48 PM

The politicos in both states are just grandstanding, playing to their bases. I doubt either bill will even make it to the Supreme Court, and any lower one will be bound by Roe vs Wade.

Outriderdark · 03-01-2006, 11:36 PM

These laws are being dusted off in anticipation of Constitutional challenges to come.
Roe v Wade being over-turned would only return the issue to the states, where it was before '73. It wouldn't make it illegal, just allow the states to make it illegal.
Of course, what anti-abortion advocates don't realize is that a Roe v Wade overturn by the Supreme Court would all but insure a Democratic victory in 2008. It would mobilize the pro-abortion advocates like nothing else.
Anti-abortion advocates should hope that it doesn't get overturned if they want to maintain power and have something to gripe about in coming years. A Roe v Wade over turn would result in losing the House, Senate, and Presidency and cause Congress to legislate the abortion issue. The last time it was close to being overturned, Congress had the Freedom of Choice Act ready to go if it happened.
If it becomes legislated, both sides lose thier focal point and the whole thing diminishes to a normal policy debate. If Congress doesn't legislate it and it goes back to the states, neither side has a national issue on which to stand and both sides decentralize.
Which I think is fine. If it is a legislative thing on either the Federal or State level, it can be revisited over and over without all the hub-bub. Personally I think it should be Federally legislated. I believe in States rights but this issue is too polarizing to be left alone by the Feds. Plus it meets the requirements of interstate commerce I think. Also, one state could pass a law criminalizing it even if you went to another state and a doctor could theoretically be indicted in one state for a legal practice in another.
It all gets so muddled that the Feds should legislate it, I think.
Besides, aren't we all too busy (or lazy) for a new Civil War?

whirlwind · 03-03-2006, 01:10 AM

i just dont get a couple things,like..in a case of rape or insest why not just let the kid be born and give it up for adoption? theres tons of great people in the u.s. that would absolutely love the chance to have a child but they cant. and i do understand the right of a woman to control her own body,but it seems to me its the childs body that gets tore up in an abortion,not the mothers. i know a few people that have had an abortion and i pray for them constantly...but when i asked them why they did it the only answer they gave was "i control my own body" or something along those lines. i dont know about other people but in the cases of the few people i know that had them,i really feel their choice to have it mainly hinged on their vanity. i actually over heard one say she was glad she had it because she couldnt stand the thought of stretch marks. i dont know?...i know the law is the law,but that doesnt make it right. ill just never understand i guess. part of me hopes i never will.

troy2000 · 03-03-2006, 02:27 AM

If my wife or daughter became pregnant from a rape, I'd get 'em an abortion so fast it would make your head swim, if I had to sell the farm or put a gun to a doctor's head.

How many of you out there could look your wife or child in the eye and say, "sorry Honey; the only 'moral' thing to do is make you carry that child"?

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-03-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlwind

theres tons of great people in the u.s. that would absolutely love the chance to have a child but they cant.

If this were simply the case the orphanages would be empty.

Ctwo · 03-03-2006, 12:44 PM

I wonder how the general theme would change if men could carry a baby?

troy2000 · 03-03-2006, 01:17 PM

Some comedienne said a few years back (talking about the Catholic Church's stand on abourtion), "if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

whirlwind · 03-03-2006, 05:28 PM

how liberating it must be to believe in nothing but sarcasm and smart remarks

troy2000 · 03-03-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlwind

how liberating it must be to believe in nothing but sarcasm and smart remarks

People who treat life as a tragedy instead of a comedy are prone to shooting or hanging themselves...

7mmag6 · 03-03-2006, 06:51 PM

watching this thread

Outriderdark · 03-03-2006, 06:52 PM

Tragedy IS comedy...always.
If it isn't tragic or painful or unpleasant in some way...it ain't funny.
Or rather comedy is tragedy.....one or the other.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-03-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlwind

how liberating it must be to believe in nothing but sarcasm and smart remarks

Hey, I welcome a good hearted laugh anytime; just cause we aren't jumping up and down screaming and agreeing with you doesn't mean we don't take life serious.
FYI I think Abortion is the most irresponsible most irreprehensible act of ignorance one can commit. Getting pregnant without a plan, or ability to raise that child; one which in today's society is no excuse for being concieved if it is unwanted. But wait Abortion is not the problem, its a behavioral problem one that stems from ignorance and is propelled by today's standard of hey no EFFING deal I don't want to be responsible so I AM NOT.
Consider if you make it illegal for Abortion to occur. Then what? Millions of babies born into poverty, and thus higher taxes to support all the welfare and medicare that they will require. And once again they will more than likely be propelled into that same lifestyle... It's a cylce of behavior that has to be overcome, not the act itself.
"The Sins of the Father will be visited upon the Child" Never understood this in its entirety until a Minister friend and I were discussing a person in his community that had 6 kids by 5 different men. She was worried what people would think of her because her last child's father was a black man. I could'nt believe it. She was worried not because sh ehad 6 kids with different fathers, but because of the race of the last one.....
It is this type of behavior which will need to be curbed. Passing a law will not cure the problem. Anyone on this forum should have the insight to see the relationship between passing a law and how the behavior expands once an act is forbidden. IE... gun laws and gun crime; Drug laws and drug crime.....

whirlwind · 03-04-2006, 01:01 AM

my apologies spocahp,my comment wasnt directed at you. and i have never nor will i ever ask anyone to agree with me.what people think is their bussiness. im not in the soul saving bussiness.i just pity all the children that will never get the chance to experience life,and all the potential good that they could contribute to society is just lost.

troy2000 · 03-04-2006, 03:22 AM

For what it's worth, whirlwind, abortion isn't one of my favorite things. As a lot of people are fond of saying, I'd like it to be safe, legal and rare.

I don't think the law is the best way to deal with them. The law isn't the best way to handle a lot of things. For people who claim to believe in limited government and freedom, Americans are surprisingly ready to use policemen, judges and jail to stop any behaviour they disapprove of or are worried about.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-04-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlwind

my apologies

None Needed and I agree... It is an immoral problem with a moral solution, but you can't legislate morality.

whirlwind · 03-04-2006, 12:45 PM

i will say that i agree with you troy that some things shouldnt have to be "law". things like morality should be taught at home. like i said before ,i know its the law of the land and i would rather abortion be abolished by people changing their minds rather than changing the law. spocahps said it best "you cant legislate morality"...you shouldnt need to. and to answer the question about who would make their wife or daughter carry full term a child of rape. i have two daughters and they would carry full term because they respect life of every being. so i wouldnt have to force them to do it. its not the baby's fault his genetic contributor was a sex offender.

Bull Barrel · 03-04-2006, 03:22 PM

What worries me about abortion legislation is the idea that "morality" or "Christian Values" should take precedence or an individuals inherent right to do what they feel is right regarding their own bodies--this goes for drug laws, CCW laws, abortion laws. In this case it is women who are having their individual rights infringed--in other cases it is usually the poor minorities landing in jail for breaking some law that should not even exist in the first place.

The rights of the individual are constantly under attack--sometimes it's the "left" trying to "protect us from ourselves" sometimes it's the "right" claiming some kind of moral highground. Regardless it is the individual that ends up having less and less freedom.

Abortion laws are wrong IMO and are simply another tool to leverage votes and power--using moral issues to split the population into seperate camps.

troylaplante · 03-04-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outriderdark

Of course, what anti-abortion advocates don't realize is that a Roe v Wade overturn by the Supreme Court would all but insure a Democratic victory in 2008. It would mobilize the pro-abortion advocates like nothing else.

Yes, it would cheese off the pro-death crowd, but I don't believe it would ensure a Dem victory. Considering that the pro aborts are in the minority, I believe that the majority are ready for a return to sanity regarding the issue. The young voters are probably more conservative than they have been in many years, seeing what has been layed on their backs and the permissive previous generations have done to them economically and morally. I see it quite a bit.

troylaplante · 03-04-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

you can't legislate morality.

Sure you can. We have laws against murder, theft, bribery, insider trading, monopolies, and when to stop at an intersection. The list goes on. All are moral issues. Why should I stop at a stop sign? Does someone have more of a right to that intersection than I do? It is morally correct to allow the equitable and safe flow of traffic, ergo, the invention of the stop sign. Why can't I buy stocks on insider information? Or legally raid a pension fund? Because it is immoral. That is why it is made illegal. Why can't I shoot my neighbor in the head because I don't like their loud music? Because it is immoral to take someone's life without a just cause. The cause being labeled just is also a moral decision and defined by law.

Yes, you CAN and WE DO legislate morality...constantly. Immoral people violate moral laws. Laws are instituted for their benefit, to deter them from infraction lest a penalty of law be executed upon them. It is also for the benefit of the general populace that those committing lawlessness receive the benefit of execution of punishment upon them, thus removing them from the populace or deterring them from further such acts.

03-01-2006, 07:38 PM	#1
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,192 Images: 1 Blog Entries: 6	Mississippi Set to ban Abortion Well the Dems said it would happen..... http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/13984932.htm __________________ Spocrest Out!..........

03-01-2006, 11:36 PM	#3
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	These laws are being dusted off in anticipation of Constitutional challenges to come. Roe v Wade being over-turned would only return the issue to the states, where it was before '73. It wouldn't make it illegal, just allow the states to make it illegal. Of course, what anti-abortion advocates don't realize is that a Roe v Wade overturn by the Supreme Court would all but insure a Democratic victory in 2008. It would mobilize the pro-abortion advocates like nothing else. Anti-abortion advocates should hope that it doesn't get overturned if they want to maintain power and have something to gripe about in coming years. A Roe v Wade over turn would result in losing the House, Senate, and Presidency and cause Congress to legislate the abortion issue. The last time it was close to being overturned, Congress had the Freedom of Choice Act ready to go if it happened. If it becomes legislated, both sides lose thier focal point and the whole thing diminishes to a normal policy debate. If Congress doesn't legislate it and it goes back to the states, neither side has a national issue on which to stand and both sides decentralize. Which I think is fine. If it is a legislative thing on either the Federal or State level, it can be revisited over and over without all the hub-bub. Personally I think it should be Federally legislated. I believe in States rights but this issue is too polarizing to be left alone by the Feds. Plus it meets the requirements of interstate commerce I think. Also, one state could pass a law criminalizing it even if you went to another state and a doctor could theoretically be indicted in one state for a legal practice in another. It all gets so muddled that the Feds should legislate it, I think. Besides, aren't we all too busy (or lazy) for a new Civil War? __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

03-03-2006, 01:10 AM	#4
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,751 Images: 1	i just dont get a couple things,like..in a case of rape or insest why not just let the kid be born and give it up for adoption? theres tons of great people in the u.s. that would absolutely love the chance to have a child but they cant. and i do understand the right of a woman to control her own body,but it seems to me its the childs body that gets tore up in an abortion,not the mothers. i know a few people that have had an abortion and i pray for them constantly...but when i asked them why they did it the only answer they gave was "i control my own body" or something along those lines. i dont know about other people but in the cases of the few people i know that had them,i really feel their choice to have it mainly hinged on their vanity. i actually over heard one say she was glad she had it because she couldnt stand the thought of stretch marks. i dont know?...i know the law is the law,but that doesnt make it right. ill just never understand i guess. part of me hopes i never will. __________________ De oppresso liber !

03-03-2006, 05:28 PM	#9
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,751 Images: 1	how liberating it must be to believe in nothing but sarcasm and smart remarks __________________ De oppresso liber !

03-03-2006, 06:52 PM	#12
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	Tragedy IS comedy...always. If it isn't tragic or painful or unpleasant in some way...it ain't funny. Or rather comedy is tragedy.....one or the other. __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

03-01-2006, 10:48 PM	#2
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,019 Images: 9	The politicos in both states are just grandstanding, playing to their bases. I doubt either bill will even make it to the Supreme Court, and any lower one will be bound by Roe vs Wade.

03-03-2006, 02:27 AM	#5
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,019 Images: 9	If my wife or daughter became pregnant from a rape, I'd get 'em an abortion so fast it would make your head swim, if I had to sell the farm or put a gun to a doctor's head. How many of you out there could look your wife or child in the eye and say, "sorry Honey; the only 'moral' thing to do is make you carry that child"?

03-03-2006, 12:44 PM	#7
Ctwo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 344	I wonder how the general theme would change if men could carry a baby?

03-03-2006, 01:17 PM	#8
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,019 Images: 9	Some comedienne said a few years back (talking about the Catholic Church's stand on abourtion), "if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

03-03-2006, 06:51 PM	#11
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	watching this thread

03-04-2006, 01:01 AM	#14
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,751 Images: 1	my apologies spocahp,my comment wasnt directed at you. and i have never nor will i ever ask anyone to agree with me.what people think is their bussiness. im not in the soul saving bussiness.i just pity all the children that will never get the chance to experience life,and all the potential good that they could contribute to society is just lost. __________________ De oppresso liber !

03-04-2006, 03:22 AM	#15
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,019 Images: 9	For what it's worth, whirlwind, abortion isn't one of my favorite things. As a lot of people are fond of saying, I'd like it to be safe, legal and rare. I don't think the law is the best way to deal with them. The law isn't the best way to handle a lot of things. For people who claim to believe in limited government and freedom, Americans are surprisingly ready to use policemen, judges and jail to stop any behaviour they disapprove of or are worried about.

03-04-2006, 12:45 PM	#17
whirlwind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oklahoma Posts: 3,751 Images: 1	i will say that i agree with you troy that some things shouldnt have to be "law". things like morality should be taught at home. like i said before ,i know its the law of the land and i would rather abortion be abolished by people changing their minds rather than changing the law. spocahps said it best "you cant legislate morality"...you shouldnt need to. and to answer the question about who would make their wife or daughter carry full term a child of rape. i have two daughters and they would carry full term because they respect life of every being. so i wouldnt have to force them to do it. its not the baby's fault his genetic contributor was a sex offender. __________________ De oppresso liber !

03-04-2006, 03:22 PM	#18
Bull Barrel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia Posts: 239	What worries me about abortion legislation is the idea that "morality" or "Christian Values" should take precedence or an individuals inherent right to do what they feel is right regarding their own bodies--this goes for drug laws, CCW laws, abortion laws. In this case it is women who are having their individual rights infringed--in other cases it is usually the poor minorities landing in jail for breaking some law that should not even exist in the first place. The rights of the individual are constantly under attack--sometimes it's the "left" trying to "protect us from ourselves" sometimes it's the "right" claiming some kind of moral highground. Regardless it is the individual that ends up having less and less freedom. Abortion laws are wrong IMO and are simply another tool to leverage votes and power--using moral issues to split the population into seperate camps. __________________ Beautiful Noisy Deadly Machines--What's Not to Like? :assult: