Patriot Act Includes Crackdown on Meth Use

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-07-2006, 04:43 PM

Guys, what the flying f@*# does meth use have to do with Homeland Security and terrorism? Screw the republicans............. NC has this dumb@$$ law. Got to sign for cold medication.

By LAURIE KELLMAN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Suffer from springtime allergies? You could be among the first affected by the USA Patriot Act poised for final congressional passage this week.

Besides terrorism, the bill takes aim at the production of methamphetamine, a highly addictive drug that cannot be manufactured without a key ingredient of everyday cold and allergy medicines. The bill would impose new limits next month for how much relief a person can buy over the counter.

And beginning Sept. 30, it'll take a flash of ID to buy that medication.

The legislation sponsored by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. and Jim Talent, R-Mo., would blanket the nation with one policy that would put medicines containing pseudoephedrine behind the counter and out of the reach of meth cooks.

"If we leave it up to local jurisdiction, we're simply going to move the problem from one jurisdiction to another without addressing the root cause," said Fresno, Calif., Police Chief Jerry Dyer.

Pass a state or local law cracking down on methamphetamine production, set off a cycle that goes something like this:

The black market price of cold tablets needed to make the drug skyrockets, driving the meth makers to the jurisdiction next door. There, they buy it in bulk - legally, cheaply, anonymously.

That is, until that state or city gets tough on meth with new laws of its own.

Rather than wait for localities to stitch together a patchwork of anti meth policies, the provision of the Patriot Act would leave meth producers nowhere to run but out of the country. It takes aim at the meth trade's weakest point - the supply of pseudoephedrine.

Beginning 30 days after President Bush signs the law, expected sometime this week, purchase limits go into effect. One person would be limited to buying 300, 30-mg pills in a month or 120 such pills in a day. The measure would make an exception for "single-use" sales - individually packaged pseudoephedrine products.

Many retailers, such as Kmart, Walgreens, Target and Wal-Mart, have already adopted guidelines to limit customer access to cold products or to limit their sales.

Similar state and local restrictions have caused seizures of meth labs to plunge by double-digit percentages in such states as Arkansas, Oregon and Missouri.

At the same time, drug agents began finding more meth from Mexican cartels on the street.

Still, closing down domestic meth labs is of unique urgency to public health and safety, law enforcement officials said.

The drug is made in clandestine labs with battery acid, drain cleaner or other chemicals that help turn the cold and allergy medicine into powder.

One quart of ether, another ingredient, holds the explosive power of several sticks of dynamite, said Sgt. Jason Grellner of the Franklin County, Mo., Narcotics Enforcement Unit, which has seized 600 meth labs since 1998 in a jurisdiction of 100,000 people.

Wading into the toxic soup of a meth lab puts officers in situations for which they are not necessarily trained, Grellner said.

"They have to know the job of a hazardous-waste chemist. They have to have the mindset of a firefighter. They have to be a natural-resources worker," Grellner said. "Wearing that many hats is a safety concern."

And an abandoned lab becomes an environmental hazard, pointed out Dyer.

"They were leaving the chemicals and equipment out in the open and vacating the property," Dyer said. "They found out that we started to trace down suspects with that equipment. Now they are burying these same items underground."

Oklahoma provides evidence that driving out meth labs doesn't mean getting rid of meth. Oklahoma's meth lab seizures have fallen 90 percent since April 2004, when it became the first state to ban over-the-counter sales of everyday cold and allergy medications.

At the same time, seizures of smokeable Mexican meth known as "crystal ice" rose nearly fivefold, from 384 cases in the 15 months before the law to 1,875 since.

"We're going to see trafficking by Mexican cartel organizations, on a much larger scale," Grellner said.

Outriderdark · 03-07-2006, 04:47 PM

It'll make terrorists stay up all night planning.....

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-07-2006, 04:55 PM

I am going to help out the police:

If you go in to the store and buy one pack of cold medicine then you are sic, if you buy 20 packs then you are a meth dealer! Think about it dumb@sses.

troy2000 · 03-07-2006, 05:47 PM

If we're lucky, the Mexican drug cartels will simply start bringing meth into the US, thereby keeping the environmental mess south of the border and driving up prices.

But I'm willing to bet they'll start smuggling the raw materials in for enterprising entrepeneurs, too.

Outriderdark · 03-07-2006, 05:57 PM

What I don't like about this is that cold medication is a legal product. Regardless of how a criminal might misuse it, you can't penalize the law abiding public for it.
If there was a rash of stabbings with kitchen knives, they'd try to regulate them....oh wait.... England already tried to do that...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

troy2000 · 03-07-2006, 06:10 PM

They can have my chef's knife when they pry it out of my cold, dead hand.

Outriderdark · 03-07-2006, 06:21 PM

National Carving Knife Association....

Sorry kids, you gotta eat this turkey whole.....

Mooseman684 · 03-07-2006, 09:02 PM

The MAJOR problem with this is that Now K Mart, Wal Mart, and all the other DRUG Marts are Doing The Police work for them! Gathering Intel on Purchasers. I guess I will be looked at like a Criminal when I stock up for winter because I can't get to town during the Winter.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-07-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

The MAJOR problem with this is that Now K Mart, Wal Mart, and all the other DRUG Marts are Doing The Police work for them! Gathering Intel on Purchasers. I guess I will be looked at like a Criminal when I stock up for winter because I can't get to town during the Winter.

Mooseman you are 100% correct. The police will go to walmart look at the log sheets and see that you came in "stocked up" (which will have to be at several different retailers because they will limit you to a certain number of purchases). Then they will come to your house to Investigate you.

This is a run around to the 4th amendment. They can use this data (obtained without a warrant) to obtain a warrant to search your house. Anyone who votes republican after this $h!t deserves what they get. So much for the Party of Limited Government.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-07-2006, 09:11 PM

If this is such a problem then they need to restrict the item like they do other medications and require prescription. It is not Walmart's job to police Meth dealers.

Mooseman684 · 03-07-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

If this is such a problem then they need to restrict the item like they do other medications and require prescription. It is not Walmart's job to police Meth dealers.

AMEN!

Beer Forever · 03-07-2006, 09:28 PM

This law passed here where all drugs containing sudophedrin are held behind the counter and all stores have to keep track of every box.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-07-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sks forever

This law passed here where all drugs containing sudophedrin are held behind the counter and all stores have to keep track of every box.

NC has this law where you show ID and SIGN for it. Like I said you are going to be called on it if you have a serious allergy problem and buy alot of this medication.

Out of curiosity does anyone know how much it takes to make meth. Is it a box or 2 or is it a case. Don't meth dealers typically steal the stuff they need considering this stuff isn't exactly cheap to buy.

Mooseman684 · 03-07-2006, 09:39 PM

I have heard it takes very large quantities like 120 boxes or more to make a batch of 2-3 ounces. Maybe some Meth cooker could tell us !

Beer Forever · 03-07-2006, 09:40 PM

My guess is at least 30 or 40 boxes to make meth. Thats why people run in and grab cases at a time and run out.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 03-07-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sks forever

My guess is at least 30 or 40 boxes to make meth. Thats why people run in and grab cases at a time and run out.

Hey; we ought to pass a law against that!

I figured it was alot. That is why I don't see this really affecting the dealers.

Outriderdark · 03-07-2006, 10:08 PM

We need to make a law against lithium batteries and Drano as well....two more Meth ingredients.
Not that I would know or anything........

Rufus Rhastus J · 03-08-2006, 01:55 AM

I noticed, too, that there was little fan fair about this renewal just like they did when they passed the assault weopans ban. Ain't our elected officials great? They stael our rights and we can't even get a buzz to make us feel better about it!

iflylow74 · 03-08-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sks forever

This law passed here where all drugs containing sudophedrin are held behind the counter and all stores have to keep track of every box.

We have the same thing here in Arkansas. Problem is, people working at little stores (i.e. Dollar Store, Freds, ect) will either steal the stuff themselves or the manager will allow buddies to buy as much as they want.

Where I live is meth capital of the world. While walking down the gravel road near my house with my family one day, we found a plastic bag full of at least 100 empty blister packs from some psuedoephidrine.

I think people caught making meth should be shot on the spot!!!:assult:

iflylow74 · 03-08-2006, 08:30 AM

Recently I say a news story about how the county I live in is going broke from meth head prisoners. The meth rots their teeth and while they are in the pokey, us good taxpayers get to pay their dental bills.

I say if they are stupid enough to put that c**p in their bodies, then they deserve to loose their teeth!!!

What a bunch of sh**!!!!:insane:

03-07-2006, 04:43 PM	#1
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,094 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	Patriot Act Includes Crackdown on Meth Use Guys, what the flying f@# does meth use have to do with Homeland Security and terrorism? Screw the republicans............. NC has this dumb@$$ law. Got to sign for cold medication. By LAURIE KELLMAN Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- Suffer from springtime allergies? You could be among the first affected by the USA Patriot Act poised for final congressional passage this week. Besides terrorism, the bill takes aim at the production of methamphetamine, a highly addictive drug that cannot be manufactured without a key ingredient of everyday cold and allergy medicines. The bill would impose new limits next month for how much relief a person can buy over the counter. And beginning Sept. 30, it'll take a flash of ID to buy that medication. The legislation sponsored by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. and Jim Talent, R-Mo., would blanket the nation with one policy that would put medicines containing pseudoephedrine behind the counter and out of the reach of meth cooks. "If we leave it up to local jurisdiction, we're simply going to move the problem from one jurisdiction to another without addressing the root cause," said Fresno, Calif., Police Chief Jerry Dyer. Pass a state or local law cracking down on methamphetamine production, set off a cycle that goes something like this: The black market price of cold tablets needed to make the drug skyrockets, driving the meth makers to the jurisdiction next door. There, they buy it in bulk - legally, cheaply, anonymously. That is, until that state or city gets tough on meth with new laws of its own. Rather than wait for localities to stitch together a patchwork of anti meth policies, the provision of the Patriot Act would leave meth producers nowhere to run but out of the country. It takes aim at the meth trade's weakest point - the supply of pseudoephedrine. Beginning 30 days after President Bush signs the law, expected sometime this week, purchase limits go into effect. One person would be limited to buying 300, 30-mg pills in a month or 120 such pills in a day. The measure would make an exception for "single-use" sales - individually packaged pseudoephedrine products. Many retailers, such as Kmart, Walgreens, Target and Wal-Mart, have already adopted guidelines to limit customer access to cold products or to limit their sales. Similar state and local restrictions have caused seizures of meth labs to plunge by double-digit percentages in such states as Arkansas, Oregon and Missouri. At the same time, drug agents began finding more meth from Mexican cartels on the street. Still, closing down domestic meth labs is of unique urgency to public health and safety, law enforcement officials said. The drug is made in clandestine labs with battery acid, drain cleaner or other chemicals that help turn the cold and allergy medicine into powder. One quart of ether, another ingredient, holds the explosive power of several sticks of dynamite, said Sgt. Jason Grellner of the Franklin County, Mo., Narcotics Enforcement Unit, which has seized 600 meth labs since 1998 in a jurisdiction of 100,000 people. Wading into the toxic soup of a meth lab puts officers in situations for which they are not necessarily trained, Grellner said. "They have to know the job of a hazardous-waste chemist. They have to have the mindset of a firefighter. They have to be a natural-resources worker," Grellner said. "Wearing that many hats is a safety concern." And an abandoned lab becomes an environmental hazard, pointed out Dyer. "They were leaving the chemicals and equipment out in the open and vacating the property," Dyer said. "They found out that we started to trace down suspects with that equipment. Now they are burying these same items underground." Oklahoma provides evidence that driving out meth labs doesn't mean getting rid of meth. Oklahoma's meth lab seizures have fallen 90 percent since April 2004, when it became the first state to ban over-the-counter sales of everyday cold and allergy medications. At the same time, seizures of smokeable Mexican meth known as "crystal ice" rose nearly fivefold, from 384 cases in the 15 months before the law to 1,875 since. "We're going to see trafficking by Mexican cartel organizations, on a much larger scale," Grellner said. __________________ Spocrest Out!..........*

03-07-2006, 04:47 PM	#2
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	It'll make terrorists stay up all night planning..... __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

03-07-2006, 04:55 PM	#3
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,094 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	I am going to help out the police: If you go in to the store and buy one pack of cold medicine then you are sic, if you buy 20 packs then you are a meth dealer! Think about it dumb@sses. __________________ Spocrest Out!..........

03-07-2006, 05:57 PM	#5
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	What I don't like about this is that cold medication is a legal product. Regardless of how a criminal might misuse it, you can't penalize the law abiding public for it. If there was a rash of stabbings with kitchen knives, they'd try to regulate them....oh wait.... England already tried to do that... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

03-07-2006, 06:21 PM	#7
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	National Carving Knife Association.... Sorry kids, you gotta eat this turkey whole..... __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

03-07-2006, 05:47 PM	#4
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,459 Images: 9	If we're lucky, the Mexican drug cartels will simply start bringing meth into the US, thereby keeping the environmental mess south of the border and driving up prices. But I'm willing to bet they'll start smuggling the raw materials in for enterprising entrepeneurs, too.

03-07-2006, 06:10 PM	#6
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,459 Images: 9	They can have my chef's knife when they pry it out of my cold, dead hand.

03-07-2006, 09:02 PM	#8
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,677 Images: 2	The MAJOR problem with this is that Now K Mart, Wal Mart, and all the other DRUG Marts are Doing The Police work for them! Gathering Intel on Purchasers. I guess I will be looked at like a Criminal when I stock up for winter because I can't get to town during the Winter. __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

03-07-2006, 09:11 PM	#10
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,094 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	If this is such a problem then they need to restrict the item like they do other medications and require prescription. It is not Walmart's job to police Meth dealers. __________________ Spocrest Out!..........

03-07-2006, 09:28 PM	#12
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	This law passed here where all drugs containing sudophedrin are held behind the counter and all stores have to keep track of every box. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

03-07-2006, 09:39 PM	#14
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,677 Images: 2	I have heard it takes very large quantities like 120 boxes or more to make a batch of 2-3 ounces. Maybe some Meth cooker could tell us ! __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

03-07-2006, 09:40 PM	#15
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	My guess is at least 30 or 40 boxes to make meth. Thats why people run in and grab cases at a time and run out. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

03-07-2006, 10:08 PM	#17
Outriderdark Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,125	We need to make a law against lithium batteries and Drano as well....two more Meth ingredients. Not that I would know or anything........ __________________ "Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was thrown outta windows?"-Archie Bunker

03-08-2006, 01:55 AM	#18
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Images: 1	I noticed, too, that there was little fan fair about this renewal just like they did when they passed the assault weopans ban. Ain't our elected officials great? They stael our rights and we can't even get a buzz to make us feel better about it! __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf

03-08-2006, 08:30 AM	#20
iflylow74 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arkansaw Posts: 1,029 Blog Entries: 11	Recently I say a news story about how the county I live in is going broke from meth head prisoners. The meth rots their teeth and while they are in the pokey, us good taxpayers get to pay their dental bills. I say if they are stupid enough to put that cp in their bodies, then they deserve to loose their teeth!!! What a bunch of sh!!!!:insane: __________________ Just because you can't win, doesn't mean you shouldn't fight. -me