I know for a fact the M16 is a crappy gun. Reliability issues due to many things. What I want to know is if the M16A2 is still problematic. I've read mixed things on this. Most say it is still the round, and it likes to explode with obstructions like sand. Real nice with a war in the desert.
Ummm, well, most guns do have problems with obstructions in the barrel, not really the guns fault though. And I'm gonna have to disagree with you saying the M16 is a "crappy" gun. The M16 platform as been around for atleast 40 years. The current AR-15's can be had in many different calibers and configurations. While the M16/AR-15 may not be as reliable as say an AK, it more than makes up for that in its accuracy and versatility. Show me another gun that can put together the groups an AR can, while ranging from a .204 to a .458 SOCOM. Do you even have any experience with an AR/M-16, or are you just going buy what a few people have said?
I think the problems that the military has had with the M16A2 are due to them being worn out. they have been in service for a long time, and they don't always get the treatment they deserve
Not my hot button LOL, I'm still waiting for Gio to answer. He knows for a "fact" these rifles are crap? Ok, so how many have you fired? How many have you owned? Have you ever depended on this weapon to save your life? Have you ever build an AR-15/M16? Have you ever gone out in the desert and played with your gun? Did it jam up? Did it explode in your face? How are you still alive? I would imagine, if this platform was crap, our entire military wouldn't be using it, the FBI, DEA, ATF, and every police station in the US wouldn't depend on them. While I will say the .223 is not the best round for combat when compared to the M1 Garand or the M14, it gets the job done.
Usually when someone new moves next door or across the road, I'll grab my G3, helmet, and boots, run outside with just my underwear on and give my "war cry" scream. If they don't run away I'll ask them how much for da women.
My neighbors see me walking in and out of the front door with guns almost every day. At first they were all weird about it, but after I came out covered in blood the last time they keep their attention to themselves.
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My view is that the AR-15 design is a good civilian rifle, not a good military one. It's a precision tool for special uses. Caliber conversions are practical for hunting, target, and other sporting and special tactical uses, but not so much for standard issue military.
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Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
The M16 is a crappy gun???? Unfortunately I have to disagree, I think the M16 is a wonderful weapon. I have fired a number of them, all full auto and all owned by folks with permits. They fire fast, reliably, and reload easily, in addition they are controllable even under full auto fire. I would suggest this: if we just agree for the sake of argument that the military has chosen to stick with a “crappy” gun for reasons we care nothing about for the argument at hand, it still does not explain why so many law enforcement agencies choose to adopt that same “crappy” weapon in their armory’s as well.
In truth the M16 has been a faithful rifle for many years and continues to (in concert with many other weapons) keep our boys among the most formidable opponents in the battlefield. Additionally, ask yourself why so many retired as well as current officers choose to purchase these rifles for their own use. I would think that having relied on this rifle in service would have proven to them whether or not the rifle deserved their loyalty.
As for the AR 15…I have had at least one in my possession since the age of 9 (thanks Dad) and trust it like an old family friend. I can think of no finer rifle…many equals…but none finer.
The M16 is a crappy gun???? Unfortunately I have to disagree, I think the M16 is a wonderful weapon. I have fired a number of them, all full auto and all owned by folks with permits. They fire fast, reliably, and reload easily, in addition they are controllable even under full auto fire. I would suggest this: if we just agree for the sake of argument that the military has chosen to stick with a “crappy” gun for reasons we care nothing about for the argument at hand, it still does not explain why so many law enforcement agencies choose to adopt that same “crappy” weapon in their armory’s as well.
In truth the M16 has been a faithful rifle for many years and continues to (in concert with many other weapons) keep our boys among the most formidable opponents in the battlefield. Additionally, ask yourself why so many retired as well as current officers choose to purchase these rifles for their own use. I would think that having relied on this rifle in service would have proven to them whether or not the rifle deserved their loyalty.
As for the AR 15…I have had at least one in my possession since the age of 9 (thanks Dad) and trust it like an old family friend. I can think of no finer rifle…many equals…but none finer.
Just my 2 cent’
I'll jump on board with you and pred. I'd rather have a heavier caliber but it is waht it is. it works.
Location: Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C.
Posts: 3,788
There is nothing wrong with the M-16/AR-15, if properly maintained. Of course maintaining the weapon under combat conditions can be difficult to say the least. The 16 was brought into service at about the same time the Army decided it was more effective to disable the enemy by wounding their soldiers instead of outright killing them. With a large caliber rifle you have one dead soldier. With a small caliber round you have a wounded soldier with two, three or four other soldiers haveing to care/carry him to the rear. Thereby taking two or more soldiers out of the fight. At least that's the theory. It was still the theory in the early to mid '80's when I was in, as far as I know it hasn't changed yet.
Not my hot button LOL, I'm still waiting for Gio to answer. He knows for a "fact" these rifles are crap? Ok, so how many have you fired? How many have you owned? Have you ever depended on this weapon to save your life? Have you ever build an AR-15/M16? Have you ever gone out in the desert and played with your gun? Did it jam up? Did it explode in your face? How are you still alive? I would imagine, if this platform was crap, our entire military wouldn't be using it, the FBI, DEA, ATF, and every police station in the US wouldn't depend on them. While I will say the .223 is not the best round for combat when compared to the M1 Garand or the M14, it gets the job done.
Sorry couldnt get to the site for a while.
I said the M16 was crap. not the A2. The M16 may have been accurate but it was unreliable unless it was cleaned. The M16 had a wide range of problems in the start. My thread was trying to determine if the A2 was reliable. The M16 wasn't. The gov. used bad powder first off. It brought the fire rate from 800 to about 1000. Get a little dirt inside of it and its gonna jam. I may not have an M16 but when I say stuff I am positive I have my facts straight. An again. It is the M16 that sucked. Not the A2. I can find a book worth of stuff that says the M16 was crap. Maybe accurate but what does that matter if it doesn't shoot. In Vietnam it barly got the job done. I may not have been there but there are enough people that say it didnt. The A2 may have gotten the job done in the desert but it sure as !!!! sucked when it first came out when it wasn't the M16 A2. So read before you critisize me.
Blow you up.
