Well, I had to come back and ask something about the M-1 Garand. Somewhere I read that the traditional way to load the Garand's clips was with the top round being on the left. It had something to do with a slight jamming issue or something when the gun was first being demonstrated and later the problem was solved so it didn't matter. It seems like my Garand prefers the rounds to be fed from the right, though. So I'm loading my clips that way.
What is UP with the Garand, exactly? It seems like Garand would have seen that the men would be smashing their thumbs in there. I would have thought it wise to just have that hold-open device like the one you can buy after-market now. Did he make it this way on purpose so you load it "faster" perhaps? Or just for the sake of simplisity? Though, I see little wisdom in a bolt that can slam forward on your finger when you're loading it.
The thing is with mine, that the bolt probably wouldn't get my thumb even if I let it. The bullets in the magazine seem loaded so tight that the bolt is held back by the top round. I pull it back and let go, and it nudges the bullet a little bit more. Then I snatch it again, and it either goes a little bit forward or finally chambers the round. With the top round being on the right, it seems to go forward easier.
Now, don't think that I'm knocking the Garand's design! My gun is probably about worn out. The bore is pretty shot and it's a mix of mismatched parts. I noticed that at times, I've had my operating rod jump track...? I pull it back far enough that it rises out of the rail and doesn't want to move forward. It can wiggle up and down about 2mm or so when closed, so it's got some pretty loose tollerances though seems to function reliably.
And how about shoving the operating rod to help it push a rod into the chamber? I've seen many do that but I read that it could cause the gun to slam-fire. I just try to get mine to snatch forward by pulling it back a bit and letting it go.
I have always shoved in the Clip and then with the heel of my hand shove/ bump the Slide forward into battery ! All done with the right hand for battle speed !
Rich
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
Actually, the M1 Garand was initially designed to use a detachable box magazine, not the en-bloc clip. The Bean Counters would not allow the use of a detachable box magazine for several reasons (in their minds), the magazines being detachable will get lost, and the soldiers would waste ammo. The needs of the individual soldier had only light importance.
I found that most of the time when the bolt gets your thumb, is when the bolt is not locked back fully. The key to this, is to look at the top of the rear part of the receiver, just in front of the rear sight, if you can see any of the top of the bolt, IT IS NOT LOCKED BACK! You should not be able to see the top of the bolt when it is locked back.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, PUT ANY OF YOUR FINGERS NEAR THE BOLT PATH, UNLESS YOU HAVE FULL CONTROL OF THE OPERATING ROD!!!
The proper way to load the en-bloc clip, for right handers, is to place the heel of the hand (or small finger) against the operating rod handle, and press rearward (It will hurt, but the pain is far less than if the bolt tries to chamber your thumb!), put the en-bloc clip into the receiver guide notches, and press down with your thumb, (MAINTAINING CONTROL OF THE OPERATING ROD HANDLE AT ALL TIMES)! You release the operating rod handle by rotating your hand so that the fingers and thumb end up pointing at the front sight, (EVERY TIME!)! Sometimes the bolt will not move forward, or moves forward only slightly, then you strike the operating rod handle with the heel of your hand to assist it.
As to slam fires, it is possible that a slamfire could happen, but that can only occur if your firing pin tang has been damaged, the receiver bridge has been damaged or altered, or you are shooting commercial hunting ammo, which is a BIG NO-NO, in an M1 Garand! If a slam fire is caused by the act of assisting the operating rod to go forward, then a slam fire would happen every time the system loads a new round!
Much of the commercial ammo has very soft primers which should never be used in an M1 Garand. First off you should never shoot bullet weights of greater than 180 grain, and the correct powder for the M1 Garand is IMR 4895 which is not normally used in commercial ammo. Other powders do not provide the correct pressure timing for the M1 Garand operating system.
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When I used to teach the op procedures of the M1 , I would place my left hand fingers in the op rod track placing pressure on it that way you have full control of the saftey of your fingers, works every time. You would be surprised at the numbers of personal that never caught on and mashed their thumbs or fingers to learn the hard way
Okay, so I was basically doing it right. I just wanted to make sure. I still think that the bolt being able to slam shut as soon as the cartridged loaded was a bit of an oversight in design. But even as it is, I've never onced slammed my thumb in my Garand. Honestly! I've just always held back the oprod with the side of my right hand. A guy once showed me how to close the action on an M-1 and I've done it the proper way ever since. I was just concerned about the bumping deal but since it seems safe and my gun has never slam-fired, I'm good to go.
I've never used anything commercial in the M-1. I bought that Korean stuff, the non-corrosive kind. It seems to shoot fine. Is military surplus-type M2 ball still plentiful? Because it would seem like if supplies ran dry, like it's basically done with .303 British... what would we shoot then?
Dana - It is spelled "OOOooohhhh SH!+", with a whole bunch of descriptive adjectives that Jessee and others don't like to see, or the screening software would not be there in place!
I too, learned the proper way, taught by a Marine Corps Drill Instructor, and the training has kept me from getting an M1 Thumb, thus far!
As to the Korean PMC .30 Cal Ball, the PA headstamp is non-corrosive, but the Korean PMC .30 Cal Ball, KA headstamp is corrosive. It is not absolutely forbidden to shoot corrosive ammo in an M1 Garand, it just requires a lot of extra cleaning.
When I was in the USMC, all we had was corrosive ammo, and we seldom had good access to the correct cleaning materials, though the old foul smelling bore cleaner did a good job when we had it.
The correct cleaning procedure, after shooting corrosive ammo, would include fully disassembling the M1 Garand, then using boiling soapy water, scrub all of the parts of the bolt, the chamber and the bore, the operating rod tube and piston, then the gas cylinder assembly. Once they have been thoroughly scrubbed with the hot soapy water, take clean boiling water, and pour over all of the parts you have scrubbed to rinse off the soapy water, and let dry, wipe it completely dry, then clean it with the usual solvents and oil.
Some people use Hoppes #9 Plus, and manage to keep their rifles from having corrosive ammo problems. I have never tried it but that seems to be a logical approach.
Some people use Windex with vinegar, at the range before going home, to rinse out the bore and bolt face and then clean with their normal procedures. This doesn't seem to me to be a satisfactory alternative, but they claim it works.
Some people use Windex with vinegar, at the range before going home, to rinse out the bore and bolt face and then clean with their normal procedures. This doesn't seem to me to be a satisfactory alternative, but they claim it works.
I don't see what the vineger really will do for them, and I wouldn't use Windex on my garand either.
I was given a Garand Thumb one time that made me cry for a good bit when I was 13. Since then I have closed the bolts properly as mentioned by you Gyrene.
Its like a car,, many people drive but maybe 40% do it correctly if that. With the Garand you use the backside of your hand {As I was taught at Camp Perry} to hold the op rod and then push with your thumb. Once the rounds are put in then slide your hand out turning your hand outwards as if going to shake someone's hand. Of course your thumb comes up at the same time and your safe. Only a brand new tight spring will slam the bolt forward with a loaded enbloc and in most cases you have to slam the op rob forward. People get there thumb slammed in there while operating the rifle empty since there is no pressure from the enbloc to hold the bolt open.
Loading either bullet first makes no difference as you see the Follower Assemble has a slide on top that moves left or right for either side low or high.
A side note..... I was showing someone where the 7th round modification is pointing with my pinky and I tapped the follower causing the lightly caught bolt to slam on it and breaking it 2 years ago. It was all my fault not the rifles. I am still paying for that one as my pinky binds up allot and I have to crack it to use it.
Hope this helps.
Gyrene, the box mag was not used since we fought a WWI in trenches and it wasnt able to be used this way. The expected all wars to be done this way. The magazines had to turn a rifle then slipped in or jimmy'd in. The Enbloc was slammed home and done so the design was kept for many years besdies the cost to redesign it during war time. Rick B
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If I cant fix it,, It must REALLY be broken!
Last edited by Stock Doc; 04-30-2006 at 10:06 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Stock Doc,
Glad to see you back. Carol and I hope all is well with you and yours.
Ed and Carol
BTW working the line with newbee's I asked for a steel glove
Thanks Ed and I come in to read allot but dont have the time to post like I used to. I am taking care of so much including my fun car that just made its second magazine seen below., and no that is not me doing the wiring. I had a friend stuggle wiht that since he knew what he was doing and I had to fabricate allot for the engine fit. I'm the guy driving at 6'4"
Still waiting on wood from you to work over. Tell Carol I said hi. Rick B
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If I cant fix it,, It must REALLY be broken!
Stock Doc - Since the M1 Garand was not used in WWI we didn't worry about it then. The M1 Garand would have been a wonderful arm for use in WWI, and the box magazine would have worked well in the trenches or in the open fields {I don't understand your comment, it seemed to be quite garbled!}
The original M1 Garand was in .276, and had a detacheable box magazine, but the "Bean Counters" would not approve it because they felt that it would allow the soldiers to waste too much ammo. By the late 1920's the M1 Garand was redesigned to have the 8 round en-bloc clip, instead of the removeable 10 round box magazine. Check this out with "eclancy"!
I will restate what I said before, I have found that most of the "M1 Thumb" incidents I have been aware of, were caused by the operator not locking the bolt all the way to the rear, and subsequently putting their thumbs (or fingers) into the danger area in front of the bolt, without having control of the operating rod! When I learned from my Drill Instructor in Boot Camp in 1950, it was to point the fingers and the thumb toward the front sight (we weren't allowed to shake hands then, and we understood pointing to the front sight with all of the fingers and thumb!)!
Sorry to hear about your pinky finger getting damaged! As I had stated, NEVER NEVER PUT YOUR FINGERS OR THUMB INTO THE M1 GARAND ACTION (in front of the bolt) UNLESS YOU HAVE FULL CONTROL OF THE OPERATING ROD HANDLE!!!
Nothing was meant by what I wrote and was just talking about my findings. Also as to the mags I read this in a few books and think Ed Clancy may have something on it also. The trench wars were still thought of when WWII started but it was soon seen that they weren't going to have time to dig a trench as in WWI. Now that I have read and seen on many History programs.
I believe you about money cuts also and feel it played a role but the early deciding factor from all I seen and heard was thoughts of trenches. Your mag would drag as you leaned out to shoot.
Please do not take my post as anything personal just talking from my experiences. Rick B
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If I cant fix it,, It must REALLY be broken!
Stock Doc,
It seems that we are always in trouble. Great job on your CAR!!! I do need a few stocks done. Send me an email when you can as to where to ship??
Thanks again
Clancy
Mashed didgits 
