[N2914J]

We've got a iron-sighted Marlin .30-.30, and a Savage 7 Mag. That combo is ideal for me and my old man.

[killer]

The bullet design is very important too. When I first started reloading for my 30-06 I made a terrible decision to use a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip for big game. In Minnesota my rifle shots are routinely between 30-50 yards for deer because of the heavy timber. At that close range my velocity was still very fast and my bullets were seperating the jacket from the core and acting like varmint bullets. I wounded and lost one bear, my brother-in-law barely got his.

I thought bullets were like magic and would zip right through. Some will. But research your bullet. Who makes it and for what purpose.

That 30-06 Nosler Ballistic Tip is great for coyote at 300 yards, or antelope or even deer but it needs to slow down a little before it hits, and what it hits first makes a difference too. Soft rib cage or thick shoulder bone.

[Metapotent]

Quote:      

The bullet design is very important too. When I first started reloading for my 30-06 I made a terrible decision to use a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip for big game. In Minnesota my rifle shots are routinely between 30-50 yards for deer because of the heavy timber. At that close range my velocity was still very fast and my bullets were seperating the jacket from the core and acting like varmint bullets. I wounded and lost one bear, my brother-in-law barely got his. I thought bullets were like magic and would zip right through. Some will. But research your bullet. Who makes it and for what purpose. That 30-06 Nosler Ballistic Tip is great for coyote at 300 yards, or antelope or even deer but it needs to slow down a little before it hits, and what it hits first makes a difference too. Soft rib cage or thick shoulder bone.

Okay, I plan on using 150gr core-lokts in my .270 this year for black bear. Are you suggesting that this wouldn't suffice?


Is there a good possibility that it will fragment before it penetrates enough to get a clean kill?

[USMC]

I use a 300 Remington Ultra mag with 180 gr nosler ballistic tips loaded to about 3350 fps

[killer]

I had good results with core-lokts in my 30-30 on deer, but yes I would say for black bear the .270 with 150 grain core-lokts is minimum. A broadside lung shot is all you need though. Avoid the shoulder at all costs.
Even with a factory Nolser 180 grain 30-06 Nosler Partition I had a perfect broadside hit on a bear at 35 yards that hit the rib and the partition deflected ninety degrees and ended up in the neck. I called Nosler and asked, "What gives?" All I got was a humble, "Yaa we've had a few calls about that happening." So I went with a heavier bullet with bear and loaded them up max per Noslers manual. For me and the types of shot I take I need a bullet that goes up the butt and out the mouth. Sometimes I only get one shot after a week of hunting and the above shot is it. Take it or go home with nothing.
I do stand with the .270 being minimum though. You'll be fine with a proper angle into the powerplant.
As far as the Nosler 180 grain Ballistic Tip I've heard it works great in the magnums. I don't own any magnums and never loaded the 180 gr in 30-06. I can only say what happened with my 30-06's and the Nosler 150 gr BT.

[Gio]

USMC. You use that thing for deer. Are you hunting or performing a 500 yard coin shot. You must live in a pretty flat open area. What power is that scope?

Nice gun by the way. Is it a free floating barrel?

[killer]

Looks like a Choate varmint stock?

[USMC]

The scope is a Shepherd P1A 3-10x and the barrel is free floated. The stock is a choate varmint stock. I normally only have less than 200 yd shots but I have shot it out to 500 yds. Honestly I only use it when hunting mule deer or larger animals. I use an AR with 55 gr nosler ballistic tip ammo for our small east Texas whitetail.

[Rookie_Rover]

My .30-06 performs well, and I like it for most uses. Loaded up with 150gr Federal Vital Shoks will put 5 under a silver dollar at 100.

At less than 100 the -06 does hit a shade too hard, but I haven't heard any complaints yet. There are no varying degrees of dead, a little bit dead is the same as quite a bit dead. The deer knows no difference.

[Metapotent]

Quote:       Originally Posted by USMC

Honestly I only use it when hunting mule deer or larger animals. I use an AR with 55 gr nosler ballistic tip ammo for our small east Texas whitetail.

Wuuuhh???

Now, I do not doubt that given proper shot placement an AR chambered in .223/5.56 can take deer. But with 55gr??? That is pushing it in my opinion. Also, if i'm not hallucinating, it is quite illegal to do so and punishable with hefty fines. You're liable to have the Game Warden bust you man.

With that said, if it were legal to hunt with a .223 I would have used my AR many times.

[killer]

I have also taken mule deer with exactly the same gun and bullet. The internal damage was as good as some 30-06 loads I've used.

The caliber is legal in Nevada or at least was 12 years ago.

[USMC]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Metapotent

Wuuuhh??? Now, I do not doubt that given proper shot placement an AR chambered in .223/5.56 can take deer. But with 55gr??? That is pushing it in my opinion. Also, if i'm not hallucinating, it is quite illegal to do so and punishable with hefty fines. You're liable to have the Game Warden bust you man. With that said, if it were legal to hunt with a .223 I would have used my AR many times.

It is Legal in Texas to hunt with .223! The .223 has performed better on whitetail than my 270, 308 and 300RUM. Even with iffy shot placement I've never had one run but a few yards. The 55gr Nosler ballistic tip does an excellent job!

[Gio]

My cousin uses a 223 for PA deer. It works well. But 55 grain? How small are texas deer?


The smallest I know of are in germany. My dad said they are called road deer. Not much bigger than a dog.

[USMC]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Gio

My cousin uses a 223 for PA deer. It works well. But 55 grain? How small are texas deer? The smallest I know of are in germany. My dad said they are called road deer. Not much bigger than a dog.

The average size we see on our place in east Texas is 100-150. We do see larger whitetail but not normally. I normally cull out the spikes and save anything nice for my son or friends who hunt on our land. I normally go out to west or south Texas once a year to get something nice!

[Gio]

Is there normallty an exit wound with a 55 grain?

[USMC]

No, not normally. Normally there is a lot of internal damage but no exit. That is why a good shot is important because they won't leave a large blood trail if the are able to run. I don't know about other bullets as I only use the Nosler ballistic tip and I have had 100% success. Also, I normally shoot frontal shots into the chest and most bullets(243, 270, 308) don't exit either when I use this method but they always drop in place.

[Gio]

You definitly want only a 55 grain if youd doing front shots. Cant imagine having to clean a front shot with a 30-30 or a 308

[killer]

Let me make a comment regarding big game dropping in place after the shot. I have only had this happen twice with the twenty plus deer and half dozen bear I have killed, while a buddy of mine had his first two big game animals he shot fall instantly. His theory was, "The 444 Marlin is the best cartridge period for big game."
We argued for years about his magic gun. I said there simply was another reason but I didn't have any proof. Since my buddy was a poor hunter he didn't get another opportunity to prove his gun for some time. Well Mr. 444 Marlin stopped bragging after he hit an extremely small deer that ran for 60 yards. He blamed it on faulty ammunition.
Well some years later I read an article about a British study that tried to answer the question of why some animals dropped like a sack of potatos and other ran. The answer they stated (after autopsies) was due to the exact position the contraction of the heart muscle was in when the animal was shot. Animals that dropped on the spot had exerted such a forceful contraction they had literally ruptured arteries in the brain and had, "passed out". The shot of course had been killing and they bled out while passed out. It seems to make more sense then my buddies theories of, "Having a magic bullet."

[hunter Ray]

For under 100 yards I use a 20 gauge. If im hunting in a area where the range is longer I use a 47/70 buffalo classic. It shoots both standard and blackpowder cartridges.

[hunter Ray]

Sorry ment to say 45/70