Roughly 300 million years ago...

troy2000 · 10-11-2006, 06:54 PM

Study: More oxygen could make giant bugs
Massive bugs lived millions of years ago when there was more oxygen

Updated: 12:18 a.m. PT Oct 11, 2006

Giant insects might crawl on Earth or fly above it if there was just more oxygen in the air, scientists report.

Roughly 300 million years ago, giant insects scuttled around and fluttered over the planet, with dragonflies bearing wingspans comparable to hawks at two-and-a-half feet. Back then, oxygen made up 35 percent of the air, compared to the 21 percent we breathe now.

Not all the insects back then were giants, but still, "maybe 10 percent were big enough to be considered giant," insect physiologist Alexander Kaiser at Midwestern University in Glendale, Ariz., told LiveScience.
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To see if more richly oxygenated air could result in bigger insects, Kaiser and his colleagues investigated whether the current atmosphere was limiting insect size. They compared four species of beetles, ranging in size from about one-tenth of an inch to roughly 1.5 inches.

Specifically, the researchers looked at the size of tubes known as tracheae in the insects, which circulate air in and out of their bodies. While humans possess one trachea, insects have a whole system of tracheae that connect to each other and the atmosphere.

As beetle species grew larger, X-rays showed their tracheae took up more of their bodies than the rise in their body size would predict — about 20 percent more. This is because as the beetles grew in size, their tracheae had to grow even more to handle the greater oxygen demands of the insects.

Eventually tracheae cannot develop beyond a certain size. Based on their calculations, the researchers figure modern beetles cannot grow larger than about six inches. This happens to be about the size of the largest beetle known — the Titanic longhorn beetle, Titanus giganteus, from South America, Kaiser said.

If the atmosphere in the past held more oxygen, tracheae could be narrower and still deliver enough oxygen for a much larger insect. This would lead to a much larger size limit, Kaiser concluded.

The scientists presented their findings at a meeting of the American Physiological Society this week.

troy2000 · 10-11-2006, 07:42 PM

MSNBC.com also had an article on giant "Syrian Camels" (how's that for a smooth segue?).

Apparently they've been finding bones in Syria of dromedary camels about twice as high at the shoulder as modern ones, and evidence that they were hunted by humans about 100,000 years ago, Strange stuff.

Scientists find more 'Syrian Camel' bones - MSNBC Wire Services - MSNBC.com

Walther Gx-1 · 10-11-2006, 08:28 PM

Sweet, if there was more oxygen then we could like hunt dragonflies and giant beetles. Doesn't that sound cool!

Oxford · 10-11-2006, 08:48 PM

I was just a kid when all that happened.

troy2000 · 10-11-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxford

I was just a kid when all that happened.

I hear you were in the hunting party when some dude said, "Hey! You know what? If we tied a long stick on these here stone knives, we could stand back and poke at these critters without getting stepped on like poor old Joe. He ain't been right since."

I also hear you answered, "poke, my arse. I'm tired of getting camel spit between the eyes. I'm gonna stand back and THROW this (bleep)ing thing after I tie that stick to it..."

freakingout · 10-11-2006, 10:29 PM

Hunting huge bugs...I'd do it!

Rookie_Rover · 10-11-2006, 11:01 PM

I wouldn't hunt them bugs until gunpowder had been invented!!!!!!!

.22guy · 10-11-2006, 11:25 PM

Everyone better go fire up their gas guzzler and cut down a tree, can't have those things making more oxygen. The giant bugs will team up with the zombies and take over the world!

troy2000 · 10-12-2006, 05:37 PM

Maybe the bugs and zombies will go after each other?

heilung · 10-12-2006, 06:47 PM

The exoskeletons on them four foot Dragonflys might be pretty tough. Have to go with BB shot. Yum, probably tasts like lobster.

Rufus Rhastus J · 10-13-2006, 07:41 AM

Wwbs?

Big Dog · 10-14-2006, 08:06 AM

When the Giant Bugs take over the world, our Mosins will come in very handy!

Rufus Rhastus J · 10-20-2006, 10:11 AM

I wonder, did they have illegal immigrants then, too? and, if they did, how did they handle the problem? Just asking...

10-11-2006, 06:54 PM	#1
troy2000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 14,553	Roughly 300 million years ago... Study: More oxygen could make giant bugs Massive bugs lived millions of years ago when there was more oxygen Updated: 12:18 a.m. PT Oct 11, 2006 Giant insects might crawl on Earth or fly above it if there was just more oxygen in the air, scientists report. Roughly 300 million years ago, giant insects scuttled around and fluttered over the planet, with dragonflies bearing wingspans comparable to hawks at two-and-a-half feet. Back then, oxygen made up 35 percent of the air, compared to the 21 percent we breathe now. Not all the insects back then were giants, but still, "maybe 10 percent were big enough to be considered giant," insect physiologist Alexander Kaiser at Midwestern University in Glendale, Ariz., told LiveScience. Story continues below ↓ advertisement To see if more richly oxygenated air could result in bigger insects, Kaiser and his colleagues investigated whether the current atmosphere was limiting insect size. They compared four species of beetles, ranging in size from about one-tenth of an inch to roughly 1.5 inches. Specifically, the researchers looked at the size of tubes known as tracheae in the insects, which circulate air in and out of their bodies. While humans possess one trachea, insects have a whole system of tracheae that connect to each other and the atmosphere. As beetle species grew larger, X-rays showed their tracheae took up more of their bodies than the rise in their body size would predict — about 20 percent more. This is because as the beetles grew in size, their tracheae had to grow even more to handle the greater oxygen demands of the insects. Eventually tracheae cannot develop beyond a certain size. Based on their calculations, the researchers figure modern beetles cannot grow larger than about six inches. This happens to be about the size of the largest beetle known — the Titanic longhorn beetle, Titanus giganteus, from South America, Kaiser said. If the atmosphere in the past held more oxygen, tracheae could be narrower and still deliver enough oxygen for a much larger insect. This would lead to a much larger size limit, Kaiser concluded. The scientists presented their findings at a meeting of the American Physiological Society this week.

10-11-2006, 07:42 PM	#2
troy2000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 14,553	Speaking of giant bugs... MSNBC.com also had an article on giant "Syrian Camels" (how's that for a smooth segue?). Apparently they've been finding bones in Syria of dromedary camels about twice as high at the shoulder as modern ones, and evidence that they were hunted by humans about 100,000 years ago, Strange stuff. Scientists find more 'Syrian Camel' bones - MSNBC Wire Services - MSNBC.com

10-11-2006, 08:48 PM	#4
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 14,293 Blog Entries: 4	I was just a kid when all that happened. __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

10-11-2006, 11:01 PM	#7
Rookie_Rover Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Western Tennessee. Posts: 297	I wouldn't hunt them bugs until gunpowder had been invented!!!!!!! __________________ Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself – Twain.

10-11-2006, 11:25 PM	#8
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,432	Everyone better go fire up their gas guzzler and cut down a tree, can't have those things making more oxygen. The giant bugs will team up with the zombies and take over the world! __________________ My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office.

10-11-2006, 08:28 PM	#3
Walther Gx-1 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33	Sweet, if there was more oxygen then we could like hunt dragonflies and giant beetles. Doesn't that sound cool!

10-11-2006, 10:29 PM	#6
freakingout Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Opelousas, LA Posts: 119	Hunting huge bugs...I'd do it!

10-12-2006, 05:37 PM	#9
troy2000 Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 14,553	Maybe the bugs and zombies will go after each other?

10-12-2006, 06:47 PM	#10
heilung Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: "Black Dragon" in the Rocky Mountains Posts: 419 Blog Entries: 45	The exoskeletons on them four foot Dragonflys might be pretty tough. Have to go with BB shot. Yum, probably tasts like lobster. Last edited by heilung; 10-12-2006 at 06:51 PM. Reason: kannt spel gude

10-13-2006, 07:41 AM	#11
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,342	Wwbs? __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf

10-14-2006, 08:06 AM	#12
Big Dog Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 14,122	When the Giant Bugs take over the world, our Mosins will come in very handy! __________________ "A bold spirit embiggens the smallest man!" Jebediah Springfield

10-20-2006, 10:11 AM	#13
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,342	I wonder, did they have illegal immigrants then, too? and, if they did, how did they handle the problem? Just asking... __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf