[CrazyIvan]

I think that goes directly to morals, which is in many cases, religion, spirituality or just good will, or lack thereof for any of these.

While I am not particularly religious, I am for the most part good-natured (at least I like to think so). While the temptation would go up to do bad, I think I would continue to be good-natured even with the lack of policing. I always felt I would be one to encourage self-policing in a time of crisis.

But, you are right. When the lack of policing becomes reality, many former do-gooders turn to evil.

[Midas]

Kill your mother, and rape your dog

[Beer Forever]

Zombies are my number one concern. You'll never know when they are coming and they get you at your least suspecting moment. I don't know how many times I would have been caught off guard by a zombie attack. There are little steps you can do to lower your chance of a zombie mauling. Always have your back to a wall. Suspect everyone. Don't hang around people who are about to die. Never go to sleep.

I hope you know I'm joking.

[Big Dog]

A nuclear device going off won't do a whole lot really - we lose one big city, business is disrupted for a couple weeks til they open new headquarters elsewhere, we see lots of new weird cancers in the coming years in those folks "downstream". Transportation gets rerouted around the hotspot.

Whether we even retaliate against anybody is even odds. We'll probably apologise to the Tangos.

Gasoline rises threefold in price.

Then again, there could be a bright spot - they might nuke DC.

[frozentorso]

I dont know about you, but I believe if the bad guys get worse because of lawlessness, theres gonna be allot more dead bad guys because of people like us. The law as we know it now favors the criminals. It wont take long for them to figure out that change. FACT:Crime goes down where concealed carry licenses are dealt. Once again, I have a plan. First, its to protect my family. Then help my fellow Americans any way I can.

Yes, I do see an uprising against the invasion by illegal aliens. But its not an armed invasion. If there were such an invasion, Mexico would be called South-South Texas in a matter of weeks. The uprising will only get stronger in time. But not fast enough for my liking.

I somewhat agree with you, Pred. I'm one of the good guys too, and I would like to think most of us are. But what makes us good is when we are faced with right and wrong and choose right. When we say we're going to head for the hills when the SHTF and kill any poor starving sole in our way, we've become bad before anything happens. If you're good, doing the right thing feels good even if you're not religious. I'd much rather sit in judgement from God and say "I helped as many as I could" than "I done kilt scads of them morons without a plan so I could save my own *ss". Maybe helping others is a virtue some survivalists cant understand.

I am more worried about zombies and the Ted Kazinsky's than a nuke, but I believe Big Dog's right. This country will overcome. Then the rest of the world better get right with God, because then there will be an American uprising. We can only be pushed so far. I'll be part of it.

[frozentorso]

When I started this post I was really curious as to what people thought might happen. What surprised me about the survival forum is how many people are more concerned with individual survival. Thats how this country will fall. Did the firefighters in NY say "I'm not going in that building! It might fall!" I feel what keeps us from doing evil things talked about in this discussion is not a fear of jail. Its knowing right from wrong. It's the deep seated character that made this country the greatest on earth. We outnumber the bad guys by a long shot. They know it.

It's one thing to say you'd be ready to kill your neighbor(or a stranger) to survive. What was that said about some poor starving sole wanting food?Theres a little machismo in all of us. I'ts been 4 days since my last post...plenty of time to think it over. Stow the anti government crap. If SHTF, it happens. Which of you will come out and say you stand by such a sad, anti American sentiment like preparing to kill other Americans in need? It'd *#!* sure be nice to hear someone stand up and take the high road!

[Pred]

Since when did this thread turn into the Political section? Frozen, somewhere you've gotten off track. I never said kill all the starving people you come across, I said be ready to kill to protect what you've got. Say you've got enough food to last you and your family 90 days. Go by your logic, say your help out one person who needs some food. Then all of a sudden two more people need food, because they heard from guy one you have some. Then three, then four. Before you know it one of two things will happen. One, either you'll be overrun with your starving fellow Americans who could care less about you and your family(you and your family would probably either be killed or beaten by the mob) or you've just killed your family because you looked out for others instead, now your wife and kids will starve instead. And frankly, 9/11 and a firefighter running into a building is not the same thing as nukes or complete chaos taking over the country. If you would have read what I wrote, I said doing right and wrong is what keeps us from doing evil, but what helps make up our minds are consequences. Take those away and suddenly your outlook of whats right and wrong might change a little, that was my point. Remember Frozen, right or wrong is a point of view. I'm not going to discuss the character part, thats for the Political section. Again, you seem to forget a very important thing Frozen. If this country were to be thrown into mass chaos, in which you had to fight to SURVIVE, the people of this country are no longer Americans, they are humans, who must and will do what it takes for THEM to survive. When you get down to the very basics of our existence, self preservation takes the top spot over everything else. Those who forget this, well, sadly they wont get a second chance, no pass go collect $200. And we're not really being anti government, we all just realize the government could do nothing to help us out. Look at Katrina, replace water with a nuke, think it would be any better? I'm sorry Frozen, but I'm afraid your putting way to much faith in your fellow man. You talk about the people from this forum doing good, but what about the other 299,992,000 people in the US(saying all 8000 or so members on this board are good at heart).?

[Mooseman684]

Pred, Very well stated. Survival is not the game on TV, It will be every man for himself and his loved ones. When you look at the true criminal element out there, if the SHTF, you may not have time to learn a lesson on human behaviour. Look what happened in New Orleans with Cops confiscating weapons, and shooting unarmed civilians that needed help, or cops so overwhelmed they quit and ran away....and this was just a hurricane and flood...

[frozentorso]

First, there were posts in this thread about politicians taking care of themselves with no concern for us, and the other threads in "survival" are full of them. I also believe such paranoia isnt beneficial to survival. Thats why I believe politics has nothing to do with it. I dont think anyone has specifically said kill anyone who needs help, but quotes like "Guns and ammo should be your #1 priority....anything else can be aquired" is a clear insinuation. I'm not calling you wrong if thats your plan. I just think its sad. Now if there's a nuclear war and every major city is gone and our infrastructure is history, I'm with you! I'm trying to be the last one alive! But if that happens I doubt there would be anything but total anihilation and survival wont be an issue, except for Mooseman. If there is a nuke or biological weapon it will probably be very small. Lets say it takes out Dallas. You tellin me the rest of the country's gonna head for the hills? I say they're gonna help out just like in Katrina. No, the govt. wasnt prepared, and New Orleans was IMO a city of governmental corruption with tens of thousands of governmental dependant citizens. Katrina couldnt have happened in a worse place. Biloxi seems to have overcome.
I read what you said. You said what keeps us from doing evil things is the risk of going to jail. I said I it was our character. For some its one or the other. For some its both. I'm with you there. But I disagree about character. Its definitly not political, its moral. It's how you act when nobody's looking. Some have weaker morals than others. Maybe I'm just an opptomist in a pessimistic thread. I respect your opinion, and I believe if the SHTF you would do what you could for others if the situation presented itself. I think its human nature. Survival and helping others are not mutually exclusive. No hard feelings?

[CrazyIvan]

When I talked about the politicians taking care of themselves, I was not trying to invoke a political discussion. It is just the way it is. And it leads into Pred's statements. The government will be for itself in a time of chaos, it will not be there for us. This is just as true as saying each person will be for himself and his family before he is for anyone else.

I personally plan on farming my services out as a sharpshooter on a ranch:

"I will keep your farm/ranch clean of looters or people who may steal your livestock/orchard products for trade of 2-3 meals per day and a place to sleep."

When the time comes, you WILL see a lot of signs that say: "Warning: Tresspassers will be shot." (and my favorite) "Survivors will be shot again."

So, in essense, I am protecting myself and those people on that farm/ranch.

You won't, however, find me as a "rebel without a cause."

This is of course only in the case we have multiple WMD attacks across the country. I live in a big city and I will not stand by to let them disarm me and submit me to their martial law.

[just_a_car]

I think there is a chance that there will be a form of nuclear attack, whether that be a fission/fusion bomb or just a dirty bomb. I also think there's more a chance that it would be an individual attack (or attacks) rather than a coordinated computer-controlled one, such as Russia Vs. USA in the cold war. Thing is, if somehow the Russian nukes were launched, I could kiss my @$$ goodbye. Some of you may be thinking, 'Why? You live in Washington." Well, let me list the reasons:

1. Bangor naval base on Hood canal across the Puget Sound; this is where many of the Pacific Fleet nuclear subs are stationed and serviced.
2. Boeing is/was headquartered here and their plants were the ones putting out the bombers that carried the nukes.
3. Fairchild AFB in Eastern Washington that houses the B-52's used for our Strategic Air Command and used to house a bunch of ICBM's. (Warning: last few seconds of B-52 video will make your heart drop to your ankles)
4. Hanford Nuclear Facility in Eastern Washington. You know, the one that produced the weapons-grade material for the bombs dropped on Japan.
5. Grand Coulee Dam, which produces a large quantity of the Western US's electricity.
6. Larson AFB in Moses Lake, charged with protecting the above two.

That being said, I don't think it's all that likely that such would happen. I'd give the coordinated attack a .001% chance of occuring in the next decade and the singular attack a 5% chance in the next decade. This is because they caught people at the Canadian border with plans to attack the LA Airport, but they may decide it's easier to just attack Seattle.


For a SHTF scenario, the whole of Western Washington, I think, has a 40% chance of a massive mega-earthquake (8-10 on the Richter Scale) occuring in the next decade that would not only destroy much of the cities, but also cause liquifaction in the river deltas and potentially, if it was off the coast, cause tsunamis 100 feet or more high and just as long. It would inundate much of the Seattle Metro area and kill tens of thousands.

[frozentorso]

Right on, Car. Sounds objective and well thought out. Same kinda applies here in Tx. I'd bet singular attack, maybe .05%, and probably from the south. The Russian and Chinese economies are too capitalist now to want to nuke anyone. I'm really not worried about India. But Iran and N. Korea are certainly something to think about. But be careful of the Canadian zombies. I hear they grow really big.LOL.

Sorry to disagree with you again, Ivan, but that is too broad of a statement. You make it sound as if ALL elected officials have a safe bomb shelter to run to while just us commoners suffer. Key top government officials do have a safe place in case of SHTF. There has to be a government left to govern in case of SHTF, otherwise our infrastructure will certainly collapse. I remember a statement about cutting off the head of the snake.?. BTW, what did the government do to you to make you so cynical? I can understand some distrust, but your posts really ooze anti-gov.

[CrazyIvan]

I just am sick of them looking right into the camera's eye and lying. Cover-ups, lack of controlling our borders, doing the bidding of every major corporation with no regard for the common-folk, their higher interest in their re-election than the American people, wanting to line their pockets with our cash, utter disregard for the average American. They are all liers, cheaters and scum if you ask me. What average person would make it in this world acting the way they do...republican and democrat alike? Imbezzling monies, inter-office relationships, abuse of position and power. It has snowed here every week for the last 7 weeks. I live in kind of an industrial area with a lot of traffic along the street, so the streets usually stay fairly clear. But, I can tell you that the ritzie areas where govt. folk and high-rollers live were plowed immediately following each and every storm. They were clean of snowpack and clear of any snow mounds. They actually took trucks in there to haul out the snow and ran privately contracted guys with ATV Snowplows down the sidewalks of those areas. My mom's street, on the other hand, it still has about 8 inches of snow-packed...well now pretty much ice. They threatened to begin ticketing people for not clearing off their sidewalks. Well, too bad the publicly-funded guys with ATV's, tractors and dump trucks don't make a run down the sidewalks and streets like my mom's. OH NO! They would rather make her, with a bum leg, bad back and a bone spur in her heel try to get out there and shovel it or suffer a fine of $150. Yea, I went over there and cleaned her driveway so she wouldn't fall when retrieving the mail. But, then had to go back after they threatened that to the people of Denver. I don't mind doing it. It is just the whole idea...makes me sick that I pay for this BULLCR@P. Our govt doesn't give 1/2 a sh|t about the average people, the middle-class in America. You know how many people's cars have been ravaged by the packed ice & snow? Yea...then you make an insurance claim and for the $1200 it cost to fix it, they will total it. Good luck finding a car of equal personal value. Good luck gettin' to work so you can make money for big brother. Yea, and just try to make a claim against the city for causing those problems...HAH! Yea right. After $10k in court fees, they will turn their back on you yet again. Too bad she isn't in the ritzie part of town where the cars are all on loan and fully covered and newer than a 2005. Wouldn't it be nice?

If they can't even do this right...then I fear what may happen in time of a true crisis or WMD attack. I hope they find themselves in the thick of it. It's like kickin' a dead horse what they are doing to we, the people. I will add another sign to my rancher's fence: "in addition to this...Politicians will be fed to the hogs."

But, I digress. This is not the political forum. I just wanted to let you know about my perspective.

[frozentorso]

I was starting to think you were crazy. But now I think you're the kind of guy I'd vote for. But seriously, they're not ALL bad. We just hear about the bad and not the good. Kind of like in Iraq. Used to be constituents would tar and feather those kind of representitives. We've become way too complacent.

IVAN FOR PRES!

[tbonecpk]

Even then I do not think that washington would bear the brunt of a nuclear attack. To be honest the more prevelant target would be southern california. Just look at it within a 200 mile radius you have somewhere between 10-20 major military instilations MCAS Mirimar, NAS North Island, Naval Station San Diego 32nd Street, NSB Point Loma, NAS El Centro, Emperial Beach, the Amphib Base on Coronado Island, these are in San Diego County ALONE!!! next would then be washington for those reasons. As for Ivan I totally agree the politicians in power only give a half of a shyt about corporate america not the individual. In the above situation what are they going to do about MY friends and family that live in such a strategic target? probably nothing but let them die its prety sad when my friend Lance is going to soon have his second child. and his first is under a year old. In a SHTF situation I think the best thing to do is look after your friends and family arm them, feed them because they are going to probably (the good ones anyway) do their best to look after you.

[Cr@ckSH0t]

I am surprised nobody here has mentioned something along the lines of the avian flu or some other viral outbreak/pandemic. Highly communicable virus+High death rate=Bad, Bad situation. Imagine Ebola, all over the U.S. It would take weeks for it to spread all over the country so you would have semi adequate time to prepare, but nonetheless, every living human would get infected unless you lived in the wilderness with no human contact for a year and a few months. The cities would be death holes(Best I can describe it....) Once it hit the cities the police would abandon their post, most likely, to stay with their families. They dont want any part of this and they have others to think about. With the police gone, looting and chaos would ensue, until martial law is instilled or most of the looters become infected. Then it would take months for the virus to fully run its course....and thats just the first wave. The second wave is more deadly, new mutated version of the first wave, but by now, MAYBE, the Gov. would be able to gain some control. I can tell you this though, it would have a lasting affect on the world-low economy, war over resources and to keep infected from spilling over the borders and, God forbid, anything short of a nuclear war.

[Cr@ckSH0t]

Nobody has mentioned viral outbreaks im surprised. Highly communicable virus+High death rate=One sh** covered fan. Imagine police leaving their post and massive looting and chaos untill order is restored or the looters get infected. Everyone would get sick, there is no way to escape it. Hospitals would be full past breaking point and with little to no med care, people will not only die from the virus, but also from regular stuff EX.... childbirth, infected wounds.. Food would be scarce quick, as would water, no electricity. Anyway, the safest place to go would be out in the middle of nowhere or to a small town to avoid the rampant chaos.But to avoid the virus itself? There would be nowhere to go.... I dont know what I would be more scared of the virus or the lack of resources or the looting...the looting will likely be worse in the cities, but you know, cant really predict what people will do in these situations...

[Cr@ckSH0t]

I wonder, what has the government or fema and other organizations done to prep for such an event?

[Mooseman684]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Cr@ckSH0t

I am surprised nobody here has mentioned something along the lines of the avian flu or some other viral outbreak/pandemic. Highly communicable virus+High death rate=Bad, Bad situation. Imagine Ebola, all over the U.S. It would take weeks for it to spread all over the country so you would have semi adequate time to prepare, but nonetheless, every living human would get infected unless you lived in the wilderness with no human contact for a year and a few months. The cities would be death holes(Best I can describe it....) Once it hit the cities the police would abandon their post, most likely, to stay with their families. They dont want any part of this and they have others to think about. With the police gone, looting and chaos would ensue, until martial law is instilled or most of the looters become infected. Then it would take months for the virus to fully run its course....and thats just the first wave. The second wave is more deadly, new mutated version of the first wave, but by now, MAYBE, the Gov. would be able to gain some control. I can tell you this though, it would have a lasting affect on the world-low economy, war over resources and to keep infected from spilling over the borders and, God forbid, anything short of a nuclear war.

I mentioned that in post #2 of this topic and how I'm prepared in another thread!
Rich

[knightRider]

i live in the mtns so i think im in a good spot.