I'm sorry I didn't know about that stupid cencus link that blocks the story. I just put in some gobble gook, and no email, and it always lets me by.
Anti-vigilante bill voted down
Measure sought ban on armed civilians patrolling border
Mary Jo Pitzl
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 6, 2007 12:00 AM
Armed people or groups who patrol to protect against illegal activity are not domestic terrorists, lawmakers decided Monday in rejecting a bill that flamed fears and passions at the Statehouse and beyond.
The hearing on House Bill 2286 was more about message than substance, as its defeat was all but sealed even before the first comments were made.
Despite its near-certain fate, lawmakers spent nearly four hours discussing border security in a debate that veered from racism to hatemongers to free-speech and gun rights.
On a 7-3 vote, members of the Homeland Security and Property Rights Committee rejected the bill that had been introduced by Rep. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Phoenix.
She said it was aimed at cracking down on armed vigilante groups who, she said, are taking the law into their own hands when it comes to protecting the Arizona-Mexico border.
But it quickly became as much about Sinema as the content of the bill.
The bill was largely viewed as an attempt to outlaw the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. Once word of it got around on immigration-related Web sites, Sinema received protest e-mails. Many were laced with obscenities and statements that alarmed her to the point that she felt her safety was imperiled.
She asked the Republican leadership of the House to hold the bill, even while arguing that its intent, to crack down on armed vigilante groups, was valid public policy that merited state action.
In response, House leaders in recent weeks deployed extra security, sent the e-mails to the state Department of Public Safety's counterterrorism task force for review and arranged a personal security detail for Sinema.
But the hearing went on because, as committee Chairman Warde Nichols said, it was important to have the divisive issue aired publicly.
"I think it was important we go through this debate today to let our individual constituencies know where we stand," the Gilbert Republican said.
It was clear that Republicans opposed the bill, viewing it as an affront to the free-speech rights of the First Amendment and the gun rights of the Second Amendment.
They also saw it as an attempt to stop the Minutemen, who have been patrolling Arizona's border for several years.
"These men and women who are serving in the Minutemen are patriots," Nichols said. They're responding to Arizonans' cry to shore up the border, a cry that the federal government has largely ignored, he said.
Chris Simcox, president of the Minuteman group, said the 9,000-plus member organization is "vigilant" but its members are not vigilantes.
"If we found someone engaged in vigilante behavior, we would report that (to law enforcement) because we abhor that," Simcox said.
But Sinema presented video clips that showed aggressive actions by the Minutemen, and she grilled Simcox about his gun-rights beliefs.
Her bill would have outlawed any armed group not directly affiliated with law enforcement, such as the Border Patrol or state or federal authorities.
All six Republicans on the panel voted against the bill. They were joined by Rep. Cloves Campbell, D-Phoenix, who said he supported the work of the volunteer patrols.
However, Campbell said he detected racist motives in some of the groups working along the border, despite their protests that their activities had nothing to do with race.
Campbell said he saw a parallel to racist intolerance in the offensive tone of many of the e-mails to Sinema, some of which she read to the panel.
you should read the open discussion at the bottom of the link.
Anti-vigilante Bill voted down.
I agree with the action taken to vote the Anti-vigilante bill down.
Yes, I am a US citizen Latino and very much against any group that breaks our laws regardless of the motives.
I do not believe that it is a racist issue since they, the one breaking the law are not only Mexicans, but from every corner of the world.
I also believe that our immigration laws are proper and legal and should be enforced.
Lionel DeLa Rosa, SFC
US Army Infantry, Ret.
(Lionel5540, February 6, 2007 09:17AM)
God Bless the Minutemen, true patriots who epitomize what is good about this country. Wish there were more like them.(Jose4001, February 6, 2007 08:56AM)
Last edited by Spurzmaker; 02-06-2007 at 11:32 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Politicians dont get absolutely stupid until they get elected federal usually.If that had been in liberal U.S. senate it would have been 75% to outlaw the militia. samuel
The minute men is an excellent organization who brought national attention to what is going on here. They are not a militia, just a good group of people. The assisted the BP in over 13,000 captures of illegal aliens without one complaint. They have saved the lives of over 250 who would have died in the desert.
__________________
Paramedic/Firefighter
sks forever
FMF Corpsman
Proud Father and Husband
Proud American!!
The original minutemen were called militia.Any armed citizen group organised for military or law enforcement,legal or illegal is a militia.There is nothing wrong in militia,just the way it may be used.I believe the minutemen in Arizona is being used properly but the news by portraying heavily armed citizens intentionally give the public the idea that it is just a bunch of guncrazy militants. samuel.
Heard on the news that one of the men in prison was badly beaten by a group spouting spanish,some are riled up about it but the Bushit admin. is ignoring it.
The illegal pot smuggler is free to go about his business.
Sinema presented video clips that showed aggressive actions by the Minutemen, and she grilled Simcox about his gun-rights beliefs.
Has anyone heard of any of the "Vigilantes" holding a national against their will, or branishing a weapon"?
Go to the inner cities, and walk down a ghetto neighborhood, and feel the "aggresive actions" by some of these street gangs.
She wants to see local terrorists at work, see how she would feel after a gang of drug slingers got done talking to her. She would feel threatened to a point of having to get special details (tax dollars to protect someone who started this crap).
How about protection for my friends in Benson, and Douglas Arizona who's property is damaged, burglarized,and dogs poisoned? How about protecting them.
Two ranchers in that area don't go anywhere without being armed, and Bill K. doesn't go anywhere without a AR15 in a vertical rack on his dash of his truck, in fear of being on his own property, and running across a group of smugglers with AK47's. It has happened! He doesn't feel safe, but what is the government doing for their safety?
Last edited by Spurzmaker; 02-07-2007 at 11:53 AM.
Every time I go and visit the minute men, I don't see any firearms, but they could be concealed or in a vehicle. A lot of the reports of complaints against them are unfounded and not true. You have to consider the source of the complaints and any hard evidence to back them.
They have saved more lives than any of the activist groups and helped in the detention of many illegal aliens. They are saving my state lots of money. So far, illegal immigration has cost AZ over 2 billion dollars, trashed the beautiful desert (including my property as well as many people I know), ruining the health care system that sucks to begin with, and is an insult to people who come here legally.
__________________
Paramedic/Firefighter
sks forever
FMF Corpsman
Proud Father and Husband
Proud American!!
The pictures I see on the news show people getting out of suv,s armed with handgun,s and mostly AR type weapons.They show little about what is going on or the indivdual,just a closeup of the weapons.They have a whole person to photograph but only zoom in on the weapons.They do interview them but I bet most people only remember the weapons. samuel.
Every time I go and visit the minute men, I don't see any firearms, but they could be concealed or in a vehicle. A lot of the reports of complaints against them are unfounded and not true. You have to consider the source of the complaints and any hard evidence to back them.
They have saved more lives than any of the activist groups and helped in the detention of many illegal aliens. They are saving my state lots of money. So far, illegal immigration has cost AZ over 2 billion dollars, trashed the beautiful desert (including my property as well as many people I know), ruining the health care system that sucks to begin with, and is an insult to people who come here legally.
I would LOVE to see some links on where your figures are coming from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sks forever
Arizona is one big militia.
That iss an unfounded and irresponsible comment to make in that it assumes that a large percentage of Arizona citizens is militia connected.
Secondly...don't confuse the old Arizona Milita of the mid 90's (Oklahoma bombing, Nichols, Kingman, FBI probes in Arizona, etc.) with the Minutemen.
They are two distinctly separate orgnization.
__________________
"It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me
Last edited by Dale; 02-07-2007 at 02:14 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I heard it from the leader of the minute men yesterday on the John C Scott talk show, still fresh in my mind. Everything I stated came right from his mouth yesterday on the radio. All the stats are what he said and I remeber it vivdly.
I don't mean to say that AZ is a bunch of gun toten yokels, but AZ is a bunch of gun toten yokels. Just kidding, don't get upset, humore is good. AZ is very adamant about the value of the 2nd ammendment and we love our wild west. Minuteman Project
__________________
Paramedic/Firefighter
sks forever
FMF Corpsman
Proud Father and Husband
Proud American!!
Last edited by Beer Forever; 02-07-2007 at 02:34 PM.
I heard it from the leader of the minute men yesterday on the John C Scott talk show, still fresh in my mind. Everything I stated came right from his mouth yesterday on the radio. All the stats are what he said and I remeber it vivdly.
I don't mean to say that AZ is a bunch of gun toten yokels, but AZ is a bunch of gun toten yokels. Just kidding, don't get upset, humore is good. AZ is very adamant about the value of the 2nd ammendment and we love our wild west.
One of your original posts suggested you go to the Minuetmen organization and get your information. Or that you, are in some way, associated with the Minutemen and that is your source.
Now it's about a radio talk show that we all know are never unbiased and ALL of the speakers are honest and truthful people. Oh, I forgot. Sorry.
Oh...ONCE again whatever comes out of one's mouth is sacred and truthful and correct? I don't think so.
If I saw VERIFIABLE statistcs, comments and proof I would perhaps believe it.
I know better.
I remember the long nights I sepnt in the desert after the OK City bombing and the alledged "ties" to Arizona Militia members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sks forever
Every time I go and visit the minute men, I don't see any firearms.......
That's the one I was referring to.
And the photo tells absolutely nothing.
It could be any number of illegal dumping areas in Yavapai County here....and the person could well be me in camo.
__________________
"It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me
Last edited by Dale; 02-07-2007 at 02:36 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I go and check them out every once in a while. They are not very far from the family homestead. Sometimes when I am bored I will go a shoot the crud with them. Pretty nice people in my eyes.
How can you live in Tucson and not know about the John C Scott talk show? He had the leader on yesterday and that is where I got the stats from. Believe them or not, I don't care. You don't have to believe that it cost our state more than 2 billion dollars, ot that it is ruining our health care system that already sucks. If I could go back and get that interview form yesterday I would. I will try to get a manuscript or a tape somehow.
If you want to see it with your eyes, come to Arivaca with me and I will show you first hand. Let me know.
__________________
Paramedic/Firefighter
sks forever
FMF Corpsman
Proud Father and Husband
Proud American!!
Last edited by Beer Forever; 02-07-2007 at 02:43 PM.
How can you live in Tucson and not know about the John C Scott talk show?
Well....maybe because I don't live in the Tucson area?
I get annoyed when some people will just abitrarily believe what they are told to be true when that's the only source of information/
The members of the !!!!'s Angels will tell ya their members are church going Attorneys and Doctors by day time.
And the NAACP will tell you their agendas are for all people.
Show me an article or a commentary where they give the source of their information (validated statistics, photos, videos, court records, etc.)....and NOT what they claim...and I might believe them.
BTW, any LEO or Cop that admits to being a member of any organization that violates their prohibited employee code of ethics and conduct is crazy (and I don't know of any Arizona state, city, county or federal agency that it isn't a violation...it falls under conflict of interest!).
Educate me if you know of one.
I'm done with thread.
__________________
"It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me
All the stats are what he said and I remeber it vivdly.
