[ezearln]

Well had Hitler not gotten in Russia he would have been able to consolidate much of what he already held in Western and Eastern Europe and quite likely Great Britain would have been invaded, leaving the U.S. with a hostile Mexico to the south and our only remaining allies of significance being Cananda and Australia. Russia had signed a non aggression pact with Germany and most likely would have stood by it.
In my heart of hearts based on what we discovered about Japans preparations for a U.S. invasion of the Japanese Islands had we not dropped the two nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I believe that U.S. casualties would have been into the 10's of thousands perhaps even the 100's of thousands and the devastation to the Japanese would have tallied into the millions. And quite it's quite possible their culture would never have recovered.

[bigandrich44]

I think we would have still won. Mexico, and germany would have invaded, and as said before, millions of armed and angry americans would repel them. (Or I know I would)

[jack412]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Oz n Bolivia

This was sent to me buy my sister in Arizona. How much truth is in it I do not know but maybe and Aussie on the board does. Oz. Start of e-mail Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts... From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. First year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent ; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns." You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take note Americans, before it's too late! The real reason why we have an admendment that is our right to bare arms in our Constitution of the United States, and the reason it should stay as one of our rights. FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST. ( I JUST DID!!) DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY. BE ONE OF THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO WON'T LET THIS HAPPEN IN THE U.S.A End of e-mail

sorry to bump an older post ..but just to clarify ..snopes has already discounted that myth
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Australian Guns Stats

as some would know.. We brought in gun control for mass murder reduction We restricted semi auto rifles and locked all guns up when not in use
Our gun control Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we had 47% less gun death since gun control http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tandi269.pdf

our total murder fell nearly 25% open this link...look at the 2 graphs and..click on the graph picture.. to read the detailed numbers http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html

News | The University of Sydney The risk of dying by gunshot has halved since Australian gun buy-back Not only were Australia's post-Port Arthur gun laws followed by a decade in which the crime they were designed to reduce hasn't happened again,
10 YEARS NO MASS MURDER, [4+] we were averaging nearly one a year

since gun control
gun death down 47%
murder down 25%
assault up 15%,
armed robbery down 20%
burglary down 40%
car theft down 50%
We didn’t have ccw and the main change was than guns had to be locked up when not in use and that semi auto rifles were restricted,
I would say that anyone who would say that locking up guns and not having semiauto rifles made any crime go up, has a political motive and a hidden agenda
As to what daily crimes were or weren’t effected, simply i say that overall crime rates have gone down..not up

Recorded crime (in: Australian crime : facts and figures 2006) [Report - text version] and 4510.0 - Recorded Crime - Victims, Australia, 2006 - Google Search open link, recorded crime 2006, then open, data cube table 1 , scroll to second chart for per capita

our progun political party report The Shooters Party & The Australian Shooters Party - A Hard Look at Our Gun Laws The reforms did not affect rates of firearm homicide in Australia.The reforms could not be shown to alter rates of firearm suicide, because rates of suicide using other methods also began to decline in the late 1990’s.It is likely that social changes including increased resource allocation for suicide prevention impacted on rates of suicide by all methods, including firearms.It must be concluded that the gun buyback and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.

rebuttal
PhysOrgForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> crackpots
“We find reductions in both gun homicide and gun suicide rates that are statistically significant, meaning that they are larger than would have been expected by mere chance,” Dr Leigh said.“Our best estimates are that the gun buyback has saved between 128 and 282 lives per year.” http://econrsss.anu.edu.au/pdf/DP555.pdf for full text

[Oz n Bolivia]

Jack 412 thanks for the information. I posted this back in March 2007 before I knew about Scopes.com. My sister is all ways sending these things to me and several I let her know check on her information before passing it on.
If the U.S.A. could inact viable laws then they might work. In Bolivia laws are made that are not enforcable. As I have said before laws restricting anything the people rebel against, as taking away freedoms. Laws the U.S. has passed only seem to hamper the law abiding and the criminal element continues. Strict and enforced laws using weapons in a crime should be passed. The gun buy back I have heard has had mixed success in different places.
Thanks for setting the record stright.

When I was a kid back in the larte 1950s and early 1960, fully automatic weapons were not allowed to civilans, hunting type semiautomatics with very low capacities in magazines, were what the citizian had. There were no AR15s or any of the combat type firearms. In that time our crime was a lot lower, but then there was a different concept of love thy neighbor, respect for others property etc.

I've a question, except for assaults all other listed crime is down. Changing gun laws alone can not account for that. What else happened? Christianity had a big movement in the Land Down Under?
Oz

[jack412]

i wouldnt even go as far as to say the gun buy back of the semi's did it, i think locking the guns up and the tighter licensing, buying back the surplus, would have been enough
suicide / accidents and argument murder with a gun handy and crims not needing to gun up as much are the only factors i can see reduction

guns were locked up when not in use for hunting or target
along with there is no..i have to be gunned because he might be gunned escalating loop. no shops etc can be armed
so there was no real need fro crims to gun up..except against each other
Robberies involving firearms dropped to 5% of all robberies in 2005
firearms were used in 30% back in 1993
The proportion of robberies involving any weapon continues to decrease
In 1998, 46% of all robberies were armed,
Dropping to 37% armed in 2005
The rate for robbery peaked at 137 per 100k in 2001,
Dropped, to 83 in 2005.


i think social and economic equality and gov programs actively spending money on young kids from birth, is more important for crime ...
along with a decent police and law system that looks at rehab and not just warehousing
ultimately it comes down to what crime level the community will accept
but i'm on my soap box now..LOL

[madcratebuilder]

I can't quote any statistics, but my daughter and son-in-law live near Sydney, and tell my crime is gotten much worse in the past three years, so bad they moved to another area. They are thinking about moving back to the states.

[Deersniper]

Forced to surrender? They had guns! They should of removed their govt. Now they can't. All these stats need to be brought up before our Supremes. I will not end up like a Tibetan. Thanks for the info. That should be our kick in the pants America.

[lorenggk33]

To be quite honest. Gun control will never work. For it to work every person in a country has to submit to it. Since I know that only the law abiding people will do that. That means we will have a whole crowd of not so nice people with more power to steal, kill, rape, and abuse the rest of us. We get bombarded with stories about how guns are the problem with the gun related crimes. In actuality the gun is just a tool. If I really wanted to I could kill someone with a knife, ax, car, an injectable drug, a steel bar, stones, or my bare hands. Almost anything can be a weapon. What kills is the intent of the person wielding the weapon. Growing up my Father had all forms of firearms. I had access to all of them, but I knew if I even thought of touching them without permission, my Father would have wrapped each and everyone of them around my body accompanied with a large variety of pain. Guns were a part of my life from birth. So was the rules and discipline that should always go with them. Then again my parents punished me when I did wrong. I learned consequences for my actions. My parents were just that parents, not my buddies. I didn't realize until I had children of my own, that they were the best friends I had in my corner, because they wouldn't allow me to get away with things I wanted to that were harmful to me or others. The way I see it if we give up one tool because it can be used to harm each other, what's next? Steak knives? Baseball bats? Metal? Prescription drugs? Rope? Our bare hands?

[jackar]

Ironic that Yamamoto would make that statement. It was his brainchild to attack Pearl Harbor. I wonder what his last thoughts were when those
P-38's shot him out of the sky.

Sorry, looks like I posted this on the wrong thread.

[samuel]

Lorenggk33:You state that gun control will only work if everyone submits to it.That would mean the government too(military).The biggest reason citizens need arms to defend themselves is to defend against tyrany.If the citizens disarm the government will enslave them.If the government also disarmed they(we) would be conqured by a foreign power and enslaved.History repeating itself.We also guard the freedom of about a hundred other nations,especially the European nations yelling for us to disarm,the same as the freedom of our own left wingers yelling for us to disarm. sam.