300 lb.Black Bear kills 11 yr.old boy - Page 2

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 10:40 AM

Actually there is a ton of State parks here in Texas B&R, matter of fact the Missus has her lil ol book full of em and she is bound and determined to visit every one of em! Marks em off as we do! LOL

TexasT · 06-19-2007, 11:17 AM

I think the only state park you can absolutely not have a gun in is Big Bend. Otherwise you can carry concealed in parks, but you can't shoot the wildlife. If my child was being dragged away by a bear, you better believe I'd be eating bear meat for dinner the very same night.

bigandrich44 · 06-19-2007, 11:33 AM

Oh, then my social studies teacher was wrong............................ she's wrong about alot lol. Like how I'm supposed to rely on police, not ride motorcycles, etc.

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 11:43 AM

Well Big Bend is a National Park I believe I'll check the book again

bigandrich44 · 06-19-2007, 11:45 AM

Then she is right!!! She told me that during the Texas Revolution some Mexian "Sniper" shot a vine one of our troops was climbing from 800 yards away. I sat in class giving her the *** look.

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 11:47 AM

Not an impossible shot but a very unlikely one...

bigandrich44 · 06-19-2007, 11:50 AM

With a musket? I was just shaking my head. She asked me what was wrong, I said it's hard to do that with a modern firearm shooting smokeless powder and a spire point bullet. She said no it isnt. I just shook my head somemore and asked her when she EVER fired a gun at that distance.......

colt45 · 06-19-2007, 12:01 PM

I've read stories of the old long gun kentucky rifles that could take a mans eye out at 900 yards.

as for modern stuff. I've nailed ground squirrles at 900 plus. like it was said possible. but in the heat of battle more likely luck than skill (aim was held to high, meaning the shooter was going for a head shot and aimed too high, luck let his shot fall on the vine not the head of the target)

my great grandfather lost an ear to a german sniper from over 1200 yards in WWI. you can bet he wasn't aiming for his ear.

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 12:10 PM

B&R some folks with little real life experience tend to embellish a bit, think thats what occured in your case.

TexasT · 06-19-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezearln

Well Big Bend is a National Park I believe I'll check the book again

You're right, I misspoke. Big Bend is a national park.

colt45 · 06-19-2007, 12:12 PM

teachers tend to do that to try and keep students interest so you pay attention.

bigandrich44 · 06-19-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colt45

I've read stories of the old long gun kentucky rifles that could take a mans eye out at 900 yards.

as for modern stuff. I've nailed ground squirrles at 900 plus. like it was said possible. but in the heat of battle more likely luck than skill (aim was held to high, meaning the shooter was going for a head shot and aimed too high, luck let his shot fall on the vine not the head of the target)

my great grandfather lost an ear to a german sniper from over 1200 yards in WWI. you can bet he wasn't aiming for his ear.

1200 yards? Military snipers with M24 rifles right now can't even shoot that far.....................

samuel · 06-19-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezearln

Not an impossible shot but a very unlikely one...

A .30cal 180gr bullet leaving the muzzle at 3,000fps will drop aproximately 30 feet in 1,000yds and with a 10mph breeze at 90% has a side drift of about 23ft. samuel.

colt45 · 06-19-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigandrich44

1200 yards? Military snipers with M24 rifles right now can't even shoot that far.....................

Do your homework son.

I was a sniper in the corp. we made shots at 1500yrds on the range all the time.

national match high power is shot everyday at 1000yrds with eevrything from 223 to 300 winmag.

Varmint master puts pics of thier members making shots on prairy dogs and rock chucks at over 2000yrds

Buffalo Bill Cody shot Buffalo with a 45-90 at over 1000yrds all day long from the top of a train car.

you-tube has a clip of a canadian sniper team making a 2300yrd shot in Iraq last November.

bigandrich44 · 06-19-2007, 12:22 PM

We're talking muskets here dude. Not modern smokeless firearms, but muzzleloaders.

Oh and colt45, thats amazing, cause I just looked it up, and the Corp dont use the M40A3 rifle past 1200 yards. AND, The longest shot In iraq is around 1350 yards, so your saying you outshot Hathcock, Coughlin, and a few others? Nice try man.

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 12:37 PM

Well I do know or did many years ago that the matches at Camp Perry included a 1000 yd event, while I have no personal experience with either the Army/Navy/Marine Corps sniper schools it isn't beyond belief that training at 1500 yds does occur, however I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would ever claim the 5.56 was ever used to snipe at 1000yds, during the east coast matches the Coast Guard Teams insisted on using the M16 rather than the match grade M14's they were offered, after 300 yards they got an awful lot of Maggies drawers waved at them. The folks shooting the Garrands and the M14 fared far far better.

colt45 · 06-19-2007, 12:38 PM

I never said I used a M24, I used a 50cal. My spoter had a 308. and it was a M14.

the Men you mentioned have battle field kill records. no one keeps track of shots we make on the range.

and since i was no dought shooting on that range before your but was even thought of. i guess i would know what ranges i shot at better than you. I'm not about to argue with some snot nosed kid who is looking at websites and doesn't have any real world shooting under his belt more or less seen action. point here son is that shot is posible and i don't care what the website tells you the USMC shoots at past 1200yrds all the time. or at least they did when I was in.

and I miss spoke its not varmint master, but varmint hunter
The Varmint Hunters Association Home Page

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 12:58 PM

Colt 45 I surely hope you're not responding to me, and yes B&R the Corps does train its snipers as does both the Army and Navy at ranges in excess of 1000 yds. And whoever told you an M24 isn't a 1000 yd rifle or that trained snipers aren't taking 1000yd + shots is mistaken. Hathcock (whom I have met personally) and Couglin were and are "Legendary" marksman. Capable of making a kill at ranges you AND I wouldn't dare hope for.

BloodRedStratus · 06-19-2007, 01:02 PM

Back on topic...

This is a very sad story. Not many people that go camping just every once in a while take fire arms. And like many have stated, most National and State parks do not allow fire arms, especailly in the camp grounds. Even private grounds normally don't allow them. I have only ran into bears a few times while camping or out in the woods. Even though many are smaller than you, they still are not something to mess with. Bears normally don't do what happened here, but it does happen, so you must always be prepared. My guess is the kid had some food with him or in the tent with him. I know that doesn't make him a fault, but that is why I was always told while in Boy Scouts, never ever keep food in your tent.

ezearln · 06-19-2007, 01:11 PM

That's very true Blood, but from what I have been able to glean from whats in the news this was an apparent trouble animal that had shown no fear of man, and bear attacks (even by black bears) is happening with increasing frequency. Even a small bear 100-150 lbs is many times stronger than a full grown man, and one that has become familiar and associates humans with food quickly lose whatever fear of man they ever had. This is a tradgic situation and only reenforces the concept of maintaining a clean camp. Always and perhaps as is my habit in dangerous game country the burning of a fire all night might (and I repeat MIGHT) have given the bear pause. Or at least allowed some light for the stepfather to see by weak though it may have been.

06-19-2007, 10:40 AM	#21
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Actually there is a ton of State parks here in Texas B&R, matter of fact the Missus has her lil ol book full of em and she is bound and determined to visit every one of em! Marks em off as we do! LOL __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-19-2007, 11:33 AM	#23
bigandrich44 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,013	Oh, then my social studies teacher was wrong............................ she's wrong about alot lol. Like how I'm supposed to rely on police, not ride motorcycles, etc. __________________ http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1...eehobosig9.png

06-19-2007, 11:43 AM	#24
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Well Big Bend is a National Park I believe I'll check the book again __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-19-2007, 11:45 AM	#25
bigandrich44 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,013	Then she is right!!! She told me that during the Texas Revolution some Mexian "Sniper" shot a vine one of our troops was climbing from 800 yards away. I sat in class giving her the *** look. __________________ http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1...eehobosig9.png

06-19-2007, 11:47 AM	#26
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Not an impossible shot but a very unlikely one... __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-19-2007, 11:17 AM	#22
TexasT Mrs. HMFIC Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Everywhere you want to be. Posts: 4,230 Blog Entries: 16	I think the only state park you can absolutely not have a gun in is Big Bend. Otherwise you can carry concealed in parks, but you can't shoot the wildlife. If my child was being dragged away by a bear, you better believe I'd be eating bear meat for dinner the very same night.

06-19-2007, 11:50 AM	#27
bigandrich44 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,013	With a musket? I was just shaking my head. She asked me what was wrong, I said it's hard to do that with a modern firearm shooting smokeless powder and a spire point bullet. She said no it isnt. I just shook my head somemore and asked her when she EVER fired a gun at that distance....... __________________ http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1...eehobosig9.png

06-19-2007, 12:01 PM	#28
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	I've read stories of the old long gun kentucky rifles that could take a mans eye out at 900 yards. as for modern stuff. I've nailed ground squirrles at 900 plus. like it was said possible. but in the heat of battle more likely luck than skill (aim was held to high, meaning the shooter was going for a head shot and aimed too high, luck let his shot fall on the vine not the head of the target) my great grandfather lost an ear to a german sniper from over 1200 yards in WWI. you can bet he wasn't aiming for his ear. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden Last edited by colt45; 06-19-2007 at 12:13 PM.

06-19-2007, 12:10 PM	#29
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	B&R some folks with little real life experience tend to embellish a bit, think thats what occured in your case. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-19-2007, 12:12 PM	#31
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	teachers tend to do that to try and keep students interest so you pay attention. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

06-19-2007, 12:22 PM	#35
bigandrich44 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,013	We're talking muskets here dude. Not modern smokeless firearms, but muzzleloaders. Oh and colt45, thats amazing, cause I just looked it up, and the Corp dont use the M40A3 rifle past 1200 yards. AND, The longest shot In iraq is around 1350 yards, so your saying you outshot Hathcock, Coughlin, and a few others? Nice try man. __________________ http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1...eehobosig9.png Last edited by bigandrich44; 06-19-2007 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

06-19-2007, 12:37 PM	#36
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Well I do know or did many years ago that the matches at Camp Perry included a 1000 yd event, while I have no personal experience with either the Army/Navy/Marine Corps sniper schools it isn't beyond belief that training at 1500 yds does occur, however I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would ever claim the 5.56 was ever used to snipe at 1000yds, during the east coast matches the Coast Guard Teams insisted on using the M16 rather than the match grade M14's they were offered, after 300 yards they got an awful lot of Maggies drawers waved at them. The folks shooting the Garrands and the M14 fared far far better. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-19-2007, 12:38 PM	#37
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	I never said I used a M24, I used a 50cal. My spoter had a 308. and it was a M14. the Men you mentioned have battle field kill records. no one keeps track of shots we make on the range. and since i was no dought shooting on that range before your but was even thought of. i guess i would know what ranges i shot at better than you. I'm not about to argue with some snot nosed kid who is looking at websites and doesn't have any real world shooting under his belt more or less seen action. point here son is that shot is posible and i don't care what the website tells you the USMC shoots at past 1200yrds all the time. or at least they did when I was in. and I miss spoke its not varmint master, but varmint hunter The Varmint Hunters Association Home Page __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

06-19-2007, 12:58 PM	#38
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Colt 45 I surely hope you're not responding to me, and yes B&R the Corps does train its snipers as does both the Army and Navy at ranges in excess of 1000 yds. And whoever told you an M24 isn't a 1000 yd rifle or that trained snipers aren't taking 1000yd + shots is mistaken. Hathcock (whom I have met personally) and Couglin were and are "Legendary" marksman. Capable of making a kill at ranges you AND I wouldn't dare hope for. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-19-2007, 01:02 PM	#39
BloodRedStratus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Westerville, Ohio Posts: 226	Back on topic... This is a very sad story. Not many people that go camping just every once in a while take fire arms. And like many have stated, most National and State parks do not allow fire arms, especailly in the camp grounds. Even private grounds normally don't allow them. I have only ran into bears a few times while camping or out in the woods. Even though many are smaller than you, they still are not something to mess with. Bears normally don't do what happened here, but it does happen, so you must always be prepared. My guess is the kid had some food with him or in the tent with him. I know that doesn't make him a fault, but that is why I was always told while in Boy Scouts, never ever keep food in your tent.

06-19-2007, 01:11 PM	#40
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	That's very true Blood, but from what I have been able to glean from whats in the news this was an apparent trouble animal that had shown no fear of man, and bear attacks (even by black bears) is happening with increasing frequency. Even a small bear 100-150 lbs is many times stronger than a full grown man, and one that has become familiar and associates humans with food quickly lose whatever fear of man they ever had. This is a tradgic situation and only reenforces the concept of maintaining a clean camp. Always and perhaps as is my habit in dangerous game country the burning of a fire all night might (and I repeat MIGHT) have given the bear pause. Or at least allowed some light for the stepfather to see by weak though it may have been. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"