09-12-2007, 12:49 PM
| #41 |
| Senior Member  | Oh I never said I think all LEOs are bad. Quite the opposite, if you'll look. It's just the fact that it seems, when they're bad, they're often extremely so, and it's a big risk to any citizen to encounter one. A bad sales clerk can get you in a bad mood. A bad cop can get you arrested and potentially convicted for something you didn't do. Or they can try to take advantage of you in some way, hiding behind their power and the fact that they have a department that will back them up. And while it simply must be true (based purely on the numbers) that the majority of LEOs can't be bad guys, the culture and institution seems to have a bad habit of protecting even really bad LEOs, even if it's obvious they're totally in the wrong. The Chicago case I mentioned...the jerk was going to be charged with misdemeanor battery until public outrage caused the DA to file felony charges. My recent example, the guy's on suspension...you can't tell me that the tape isn't enough to fire him on after going through the standard review process. Additionally, isn't it illegal to make threats such as he did? And I'm being totally serious there. Arresting someone without probable cause is illegal - threatening someone with an illegal act is illegal (thus assault charges can be laid on someone simply for threatening to kill someone). I wish I felt it was the case that your average bad cop would be ostracized and shunned by his department, viewed as an embarrassment and a piece of dead wood to be trimmed. But I don't get that impression. I understand the need for solidarity among LEOs, but this, in the long run I think, hurts departments and individuals because of the public perception that "Oh, the laws that apply to us obviously don't apply to them, so why should we respect them?" Every time someone as bad as my few examples comes up, it obviously hurts the image. That can't be helped. Like we've been saying, bad apples in every bunch. But when their superiors try to keep it quiet or give a simple administrative punishment or suspension with pay until the media blaring it all over embarrases them into merely appropriate action...that's even worse. I've met some great cops. Friendly, polite, helpful...one even gave my wife a ride when she ran out of gas. I go to my Krav Maga class with 3 LEOs. They're all fine. But I've also been hassled in places by cops that seemed to hate the fact that I know my rights. I got hassled in college by a guy because, before finals, I'd walk around the lake on campus at night to relax after a rough day. I got spotlighted and stopped...fine. I had no problems. Big guy walking around the lake at night, totally understandable an offcer would at least ask me what the deal was. I happily handed over my student ID and everything...then he starts getting an odd attitude about the fact that I wasn't standing directly facing him full on (both my hands were clearly visible at all times) even though he'd given me no instructions whatsoever. He goes back to run my ID...obviously finding nothing. He makes me wait some more...he asks what I was doing..I tell him...back to the car...more waiting. He finally comes back and tells me that I shouldn't do this because "It's not usual." Well, if it were, then I wouldn't be able to relax away from everyone, would I? As I said, it makes me wary when I really don't want to be. The above was just one example...It's not as if I've been targeted or anything, and I certainly don't feel that way, but I get the impression in some places, I've been singled out because of how I may look (and it's not crazy, I don't have any tattoos, or piercings in my face or anything), but be a big guy in say - Reno, with long black hair, and sometimes you wonder why you get patted down when your friends don't when an officer stops by because of a complaint called in because you were horsing around outside. Mind you some places, being white is enough to get the police to pass right over you without notice. I'd worry less about the bad apples if I wasn't concerned that the institution itself reflexively tries to protect them regardless of circumstances. If I felt confident that a bad cop trying to pull something would be scrutinized fairly and impartially by his department, the whole thing would be a lot easier. It's a very complex issue that I think needs to be addressed from the top down...I think the effects of that would help the image of LEOs all over. - Coeloptera |
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09-12-2007, 02:14 PM
| #42 |
| Senior Member   Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America
Posts: 6,339
Trader Rating: (0) | Well, as most of you know, I'm not real big on law enforcement as I think that's why we have courts....but, all that being said before, this cop is just an example of why I feel like I do..... 
__________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf |
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09-13-2007, 12:28 AM
| #43 |
| Member  | Coel, I don't really know how to reply to your post. All I have to say is remember that the media tends to skew things one way or the other. And lately it seems like the media has a tendency to make the police look bad/evil. I don't really follow the news that much because of that reason plus I get sick of hearing all the problems in the world. I did hear about that thing in Chicago but didn't really pay attention to it. If it's true that that guy really did beat up a lady then he should have his certs taken and be put into jail. I'm kinda tired of doing this now because I feel like I keep making excuses for crooked police officers. I agree that if a police officer is bad/crooked/power hungry then he deserves to be fired/jailed if necessary. But unless I'm sitting on a jury that's hearing his trial then I won't make that decision because I'll never have all the facts. I dunno how to say what I feel better than that. Rufus...I'm really not sure if I understand your post. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have police officers because we have the courts? |
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09-13-2007, 04:08 PM
| #44 |
| Senior Member | Well, george I, mostly, I think, I'm more concerned about the apparent notion that a bad cop gets what seems like too much support from the institution of law enforcement than he should, when they are absolutely in the wrong. Obviously it's "innocent until proven guilty", but when someone got caught on tape and there's just no denying what they did (like the Chicago case, the video really does leave absolutely no room whatsoever for opinions about his actions, it's incredible how clear and obvious that particular one is), I'm concerned that the department might still try and mollycoddle them instead of coming down like the fist of an angry god. That's really it, I think. Jerks will slip by, they will, but it's the notion that, once in, there's the old "Blue Wall of Silence" that springs up to protect people who clearly don't deserve it. I mean, I'm no babe in the woods. I know certain things go unsaid among LEOs and, to a certain point, I really don't care. But abuse of power bugs me. I mean, how do the good guys countenance this? It makes them somewhat complicit when they let the genuinely bad stuff slip by until the media gets involved. Of course you can't make a decision about what to do when you're not on a jury, but is the perception of LEOs covering for each other, even when it's not in doubt actually the case? Do they just wait for the legal system to has it out, do they not care, or is there a culture of turning a bit of a blind eye to things? I'm genuinely curious, here. "Don't snitch" may seem like a great idea, but it's incredibly harmful to a culture (just look to the inner city and see how many murders go unsolved in low-income areas). But I do wish the media covered more of the good stuff too. I'd love to see a segment titled oh...something like "Good Cop/Bad Cop" on news stations where they profile the scum and the heroes everyday. I'd tune in. Here, this is how I want to see LEOs:  - Coeloptera |
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09-13-2007, 11:26 PM
| #45 |
| Resident Armed Liberal  | I don't think there's much doubt on this one To keep insisting, "there must be more to the story" just doesn't make sense to me. What? No one ever heard of a cop over-reacting before, and the powers-that-be feeling they're obligated to back him anyway, because he's the public face of authority? You don't have to hate cops to believe that's possible... If you sort through the news stories, she says she accidently spilled the salt-and-pepper shaker into the meat. That makes sense; I think Mickey D's does pre-mix the two seasonings. She says her supervisor and a co-worker tried to "thump" the excess off the meat. That makes sense, too; it could happen with a big blob of hamburger, and it could also happen with pre-fab frozen patties. And note that she says the security videos will back up her version of events. So apparently it was a batch of meat that got oversalted, not one single hamburger. And she apparently couldn't see that it was an LEO ordering it, anyway. What would be the point of randomly sending out an oversalted burger? The city twit said she was being arrested for putting the burger out there where it could endanger the "public," not for targeting the cop. And as several people have pointed out, how stupid would a cop have to be to keep eating an oversalted burger until he needed to be taken to a hospital? I remember when I was young, people used to keep salt pills on construction jobs. Now and then some numbskull would take two and not drink enough water to go with them, and wind up with a queasy stomach. But they never wound up in the emergency room...you can't tell me that burger had more salt on it than two salt pills contain. The cop wouldn't have been able to choke it down. And I think it's kind of tacky to start speculating about the cook's possible "arrest record." somehow, I doubt McDonald's hires too many married twenty-year-old women with lengthy rap sheets. How about just saying she's obviously guilty because she's black? Or going the other way and saying she's obviously being framed just because she's black? Either one makes about as much sense as muttering dark comments about her possible previous criminal record...
__________________ If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. -Anatole France |
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09-14-2007, 07:08 PM
| #46 |
| Member | Troy, 1. I HIGHLY RESENT YOU MAKING THIS INTO A BLACK/WHITE THING. For one how you you even know what color I am? Did I ever say anything remotely to imply that she was black or that that had something to do with her committing a crime? As a matter of fact I said previously that I read the post at work where I couldn't see the video/pictures, so how was I supposed to know or care what color she was. In fact I think it's very important to ask about her criminal history because if indeed she had one it would give her motive to mess with a police officer's food. 2. That's true I have heard of cops overreacting and political figures backing them up. But interestingly enough I've also heard of ordinary citizens LYING TO THE PRESS to make themselves seem innocent. Go to your local county/state/federal jail and ask the inmates if they're gulity or innocent. I'd be willing to bet that most would say they were innocent. 3. As several members have pointed out the article says she was mixing the meat when the salt fell in. Why would she be mixing the meat when McD's uses preformed patties? Why handle the patties at all, seems to me that if they're all already preformed the only thing left to do is cook them. 4. Do you know what Mc.D's hiring practices are first hand? Are you sure that they wouldn't hire someone who's had law trouble? After all, they do have to work somewhere. 5. Who know's why the cop ate as much as he did...THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING FOR MORE INFORMATION!!! I said I didn't want to argue about this anymore and I meant it, but why are some people so eager to crucify any police officer that they can? Why would you believe some girl working at McD's over a police officer? (not saying one is more believable than the other, just that they are atleast equally believable in this matter) and more importantly why would you simply believe the news as it's written? I'm finished with this garbage. It's taken up too much of my time already. |
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09-14-2007, 11:09 PM
| #48 | |
| Resident Armed Liberal | Simmer down, George Quote:
1. I didn't make it a race thing, and I didn't accuse you of doing so. Try actually listening to the words coming out of my mouth--or in this case, reading the words that come off my keyboard. I said muttering about her possible arrest record makes about as much sense as dragging race into it would. In other words, none. 2. How many times must we repeat that she wasn't in a position to see who was getting the food, and that it was a batch of meat that was over-salted, not a single patty? And that the City spokesman accused her of endangering "the public,' not the cop? 3. She said her supervisor and co-worker tried "thumping" the extra seasoning off, then went ahead and used the meat anyway; that sounds quite believable. Since the two were present when she was arrested, you think maybe they'd have contradicted her if she were lying? 3. I think it's totally unwarranted to start accusing the girl of being a possible career criminal because of a salt and pepper spill, and I honestly believe you're coming down on the cop's side under the guise of wanting more information. 4. I don't need any more information to scoff at the very notion that the cop ate so much of a salty hamburger that he needed to be taken to the hospital. Common sense tells me that's absurd on the face of it. 5. It's also absurd that three different agencies were brought in to handle her arrest. This was a Mickey D's, not a crack house, and there's nothing in the news or the charges brought against her that justifies that sort of excess; it sounds to me like the guys rallying around a brother officer. 6. I don't think anyone is jumping to unwarranted conclusions in this thread, George. Nor is the overall tone of it anti-cop, in my opinion. I believe you're being a little over-defensive.
__________________ If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. -Anatole France Last edited by troy2000; 09-14-2007 at 11:11 PM. | |
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09-15-2007, 07:04 AM
| #49 |
| Senior Member  | Ok this has gone as far as it can go. I think we have said all that can be said on the matter. All we can do now is wait to see how it plays out in court. I do find that it is interesting that the reason she is being prosecuted is that "she knowingly put out unproperly prepared food", and not because it was a "cop's burger". I revert back to my earlier statement: If I went to the police station and complained about how my food was ill prepared they would laugh me out of the station. If it happens to a cop, 3 agencies show up searching justice.
__________________ Spocrest Out!.......... |
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