ATF come a Knockin ? HELP

[samuel]

The way I read it all interstate transfers of firearms must be between FFL licensed dealers.Even if you give the gun to someone it has to go through an FFL in his state.This is long guns too.I think you can ship to an FFL but You cant deliver to a person in another state.This is what you may be doing. sam.

[just_a_car]

AH, what you're describing sounds a lot like a "straw-man" purchase, but I'm not sure if the person you're buying for has to be "not legal" to own a gun for that law to be enforced.

At the very least, when I purchased my two Mosins this week at Big 5 Sporting Goods, the first question on the ATF form is "Are you the purchaser of this firearm?" and specified that buying a firearm for someone else was a Federal Felony.

I would suggest that when you receive the firearm, take the young lady down to your local FFL-holder and have him do a firearms transfer to her, so that you're in the clear. Or, better yet, have the guy you're selling it to actually come out and do the transfer with you. Either way, you'll cover your butt from going to "Federal do-you-in-the-butt Prison". And if she can't legally have a firearm transferred to her, then you really don't want to be just handing it over to her.

[just_a_car]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

I bought it for me and charged it to my Visa and then sold it to him teeheehee

I'm pretty sure that face-to-face that's fine to do, but if you're crossing state lines with the sale, I'd highly suggest involving your local FFL-holder.

[JBS]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

I bought it for me and charged it to my Visa and then sold it to him teeheehee

Like I said: You Goin' to JAIL !!

[ArkansasHunter]

No I ain't...!

[ruger22com]

O.K...I cannot believe only one person mentioned the real reason for the atf call.

first, you purchased several handguns...second you live in north georgia.

ANSWER...you are being investigated for straw purchases. why? north georga and north alabama (I am an FFL in south alabama) are main pipelines for illegal purchase handguns. Criminals get a unsuspecting person (or not) to buy em down here, IN QUANTITY and in Mississippi and louisianna where the laws are loose and many dealers are too....then they transport them to places like New York where the can sell a $200 hi point 9mm for $800 to a gang banger...and they travel (and buy) right through georgia)

The straw purchase problem is so bad down here, I won't sell more than 2 handguns to any one person in a 3 month period. That keeps the ATF off my back. but I still get the occasional call checking on a weapon I sold at a gun show that was later used in a crime. Not much I can do about that as long as the buyer passes a check.
But you had "multiple sales" and "lives in the pipeline" odds against you, so thats why the atf checked. if they have a decent relationshipship with your dealer, odds are they will take his word for it, and you won't hear anything else about it.

[samuel]

Ruger22com:Thanks for a very personal report on what is going on.I personally wish there were some way to stop the flow of guns to gangs.They are the ones that are giving the antis so much to work with.They mostly kill each other but every time the news writes it up as if the only ones hurt are innocent bystanders.What really gets me is after the BATFE catches gun runners and local law enforcement catches felons doing crimes with firearms(even touching one is a crime for them)a prosicuter doesnt do his job or a liberal judge is lienient to them.If they catch an honest man that was negligent or misinformed they try to hang him. Again thanks for the insight. sam.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

How is it that the atf know the guy bought the handguns? Someone mentioned that he sent the books to ATF? I thought this was illegal for the ATF to hold and record purchase info. I was under the impression that the NICS checks was deleted in a few days and the records of sales are kept at the dealer's store and the only way the ATF saw them was to go to the store to do an inspection.

I also agree with your policy (somewhat) of limiting sales. We as gun owners must police ourselves. Really, does anyone here trust selling a handgun they have to anyone off the street? Since Columnbine and other shootings like VT where they have tried to go after the seller, I have revised my sales policy somewhat. If I sell a pistol then it will be to persons familiar to me whom I know are clean or they will go through a dealer.

If as a dealer you see a guy come in off the street and ask for 6 pistols and you are suspicious then I would expect you not to sell to them. However if some guy sold his collection of russian Makarovs to you and I, passing through town, came in and saw them for $250 each and wanted 4 of them (because I have 3 sons), how could we reach a deal so that I could get them before you went to the gun show and unload all of them.

[knightRider]

Originally Posted by ruger22com

O.K...I cannot believe only one person mentioned the real reason for the atf call.

first, you purchased several handguns...second you live in north georgia.

ANSWER...you are being investigated for straw purchases. why? north georga and north alabama (I am an FFL in south alabama) are main pipelines for illegal purchase handguns. Criminals get a unsuspecting person (or not) to buy em down here, IN QUANTITY and in Mississippi and louisianna where the laws are loose and many dealers are too....then they transport them to places like New York where the can sell a $200 hi point 9mm for $800 to a gang banger...and they travel (and buy) right through georgia)

The straw purchase problem is so bad down here, I won't sell more than 2 handguns to any one person in a 3 month period. That keeps the ATF off my back. but I still get the occasional call checking on a weapon I sold at a gun show that was later used in a crime. Not much I can do about that as long as the buyer passes a check.
But you had "multiple sales" and "lives in the pipeline" odds against you, so thats why the atf checked. if they have a decent relationshipship with your dealer, odds are they will take his word for it, and you won't hear anything else about it.

THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO RUGER

Originally Posted by JBS

YOU GOIN' TO JAIL !!

VERY HELPFUL

[lefty o]

spocahp anar has it right, nics is supposed to dissapear within 24 hrs, and the FFL's books are supposed to stay with him. in this case, i believe the ATF is in violation of the law(big surprise), and the dealer is helping them.

[ArkansasHunter]

I wonder if because of Home Land Security If maybe there are things takeing place we don't know about.
Such as when a back ground check is called in. I'd almost bet you they are looking at who buys guns and the quanity too.
Think about it !...A.H

[knightRider]

Originally Posted by lefty o

spocahp anar has it right, nics is supposed to dissapear within 24 hrs, and the FFL's books are supposed to stay with him. in this case, i believe the ATF is in violation of the law(big surprise), and the dealer is helping them.

Do you hav a ffl lefty o ?

if anyone has an ffl , do you turn in your sells every month??

[lefty o]

no i do not have one, but have known quite a few that do/did and turning in your records of who bought what every month isnt done. the ATF has the right to check what serial #'s have come into and left the shop, but they do not have the right to know who bought them, unless they are investigating 1 particular firearm.

[knightRider]

ahhh

[GoodAim]

Don't buy/transfer anymore guns from or thru that dealer! He is the one violating your rights. He is turning them in cause he is nervous about selling you those guns. He turned in the paperwork to cover his butt just in case something did happen. I mean honestly 3 AK-47's in one month? Who needs all of those. I realize that you maybe collecting them but that isn't what goes thru his mind. Just my 2 Cents. I am Sure that you have nothing to worry about. As long as if they do want to check and you just need to prove that you still have all the guns that you purchased. If they want that proof then tell them they need a warrant. If they ask why tell them you are protecting your rights and your possesions.

[SilverRun]

As I said in my previous post, If you purchased any two of the 4 pistols you bought within 5 business days of each other (which you likely did), he had to submit a multiple purchase form to the ATF. It is a legal requirement. The ATF has the right to review his bound book at least once a year - they may have just took a look at it.

As Ruger 10/22 and I said earlier, they are looking for gun runners/straw purchases. If you still have the guns or even most of them, you shouldn't have any problems. Of course it is perfectly legal to buy all the guns you want, but selling them as a business requires an FFL.

If you know a good lawyer, you may want to have him give the ATF a call and fill in the blanks for them. They may go away at that point.

[ArkansasHunter]

I took the advice of another member and deleted a couple of my post here.
I found out today I am perfectly legal in resaleing the CZ 82 to a friend.
At least I am in Arkansas...Remember theres no gun registration here either.
A.H

A lot of you that live in states that do have stupid gun laws should move to Arkansas
If you move to Eldorado and have children they can go to college FREE.
Not long ago Murphy oil corp. thats located here put up 50 million dollars to pay anyones tutitions that graduates form our public high school'

If you don't believe me see if you can find : The El Dorado Promise on the internet.

[just_a_car]

I'm very glad to hear that you're not going to have any legal issues with that purchase, AH. I was kinda worried for you.

[george_l]

Originally Posted by GoodAim

Don't buy/transfer anymore guns from or thru that dealer! He is the one violating your rights. He is turning them in cause he is nervous about selling you those guns. He turned in the paperwork to cover his butt just in case something did happen. I mean honestly 3 AK-47's in one month? Who needs all of those. I realize that you maybe collecting them but that isn't what goes thru his mind. Just my 2 Cents. I am Sure that you have nothing to worry about. As long as if they do want to check and you just need to prove that you still have all the guns that you purchased. If they want that proof then tell them they need a warrant. If they ask why tell them you are protecting your rights and your possesions.

I agree with you that he's probably in the clear if that's all they're looking for, and as long as he hasn't sold them. But if that is the case and all they want to know is weather or not he still has the guns what does it hurt him to tell the atf guys to wait on the front porch and bring the guns out for them. I'd say that blatantly telling them that they couldn't see the guns w/o a warrant is asking for trouble. Remember if they want a warrant they're gonna do everything they can to get one and then you're screwed.

[ArkansasHunter]

Thanks J-A-C...Mike