ATF come a Knockin ? HELP

knightRider · 09-13-2007, 11:58 AM

Well my ffl dealer said that i bought 4 handguns in one month and the atf contacted him regarding me and what he thought i was doing buying so many guns ! he said i was legit and a collecter , they varified my adress and phone number with my dealer. So you think they might come peek into my safe? i dont care really, but dang this is rediculous! anyone have this happen to them? any tips , thoughts would be helpful . thanks

CrazyIvan · 09-13-2007, 12:14 PM

Remind them that you passed the background check. Remind them you are a collector and enthusiast. Allow them to check your home, but be sure you are in compliance with your local and state laws regarding storage of firearms (if there are any where you live). And cautiously remind them that it only takes one gun in one idiot's hands to kill someone, though you are not an idiot and have no intention on harming anyone.

Don't allow them to take photos, shut down any computers you have in your home before the come in, especially if they are on a wireless network. Don't allow them to take any notes while in your home. Remind them that you are allowing them to come in on your own accord to show your good faith, but don't let them forget that it is on your terms. If they ask to do anything or look anywhere you are uncomfortable with, ask them to leave and get a warrant. I would suggest sitting a tape/digital audio recorder with a high-sensitive mic on a table or somewhere where your conversation can be recorded. Make them aware of the device upon their entry and ask them to state their names and badge #'s loudly enough so it can be recorded. I would say use a video camera, but if these guys do any undercover work, you don't want to damage that.

This is, of course, considering they do show up at your door, which they probably won't.

knightRider · 09-13-2007, 12:22 PM

yeah i live in rural north ga , and my ffl said they might just call a sherrif from my county to check me out . thanks Crazy Ivan for your help . thanks alot

ArkansasHunter · 09-13-2007, 12:37 PM

You got me wondering now, but I've bought 6 firearms but not in 1 month period.

Oh I hope they pay me a visit, that would be one of the high lights of my life !!!

And before I let them in I'll turn Herbert loose in the house....LMAO !!!

On a more serious note I wouldn't be ugly to them and I would WANT them to see I'm
La-git and i would even try real hard to act normal...LOL

Idaho Dave · 09-13-2007, 01:08 PM

odd, scary. Be calm, answer all questions honestly, politly, even freindly. I would agree with Ivan I would constantly, not agressively, remind them that you bought the guns in a legal manner and that you are not denied rights to do so. Ask nicely several times why it is that they are visiting you. I would also record everything with video, not in secret let them see that you are doing it, it will ensure that they act with good manners. speak clearly and ask them to repeat any statements that may not have been picked up. If it were me this entire conversation would take place on the fornt pourch. I personally would never consent to a warrentless search of my property, I have nothing to hide there but it is my constitutionally given right and I would stick by it. If they see your guns, and you have more then a few, they are going to have lots more questions and then want to start writing down serial numbers. Like Ivan said they start taking notes they will stay there. Told a UHP officer no one night when he asked if he could look in my car. Again I had nothing to hide I just said "I don't submit to or agree with warrentless searches sir" he asked "why, do you have something to hide?" and gave me a stern look. I looked right back and said "no sir just exersizing my rights, sir" after a second he said "Well, I dont balme you there." Gave me a ticket for speeding and sent me on my way. Don't be affraid you have the right to by and collect firearms as long as it is done in a legal manner. be nice but dont let them make you feel like you are doing something worng. unless you are then I say good luck to you

lefty o · 09-13-2007, 01:46 PM

i dont believe you have anything to be worried about. on the other hand if they by some dumb reason decided to pay you a visit, dont let them inside your home without a warrant.

ArkansasHunter · 09-13-2007, 02:05 PM

I wonder what tips them off and i would ask them how they get there information in regards to the quanity of firearms a person buys.

I wouldn't give them a hard time, matter of fact I would treat them the way I would want to be treated and I'd ask them if they were hireing !

And I wouldn't let lil Herbert nibble on there shoes !! LOL...A.H

troylaplante · 09-13-2007, 02:06 PM

GOF: When The BATF Pays A Visit

knightRider · 09-13-2007, 02:18 PM

thanks guys , troy i dont have a ffl im just a private citizen so what do you think is wise for a non licenesd citizen ? thinks agian guys . ill let you know if anything ever does come of this crap or not .

just_a_car · 09-13-2007, 03:09 PM

I have to agree with some of the gents above: Do not submit to a warrantless search.

As mentioned before:

Be polite, but not submissive.
Explain that you understand they're only trying to do their job, but that you respectfully refuse to give up {insert Constitutional right here}.
Video taping is a decent idea, but so it voice recording. It's easily concealable and is legal in most states. I know in WA, if it's a public location, you need no permission.
If you get nervous, remember, this is your home and they are guests, if they get out of line, treat them as you would any other unruly guest and politely ask them to leave, even if they haven't entered yet.

knightRider · 09-13-2007, 04:14 PM

we shall see what comes about . this is america dang it .

just_a_car · 09-13-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightRider

we shall see what comes about . this is america dang it .

HERE, HERE!

Lng Rng · 09-13-2007, 04:48 PM

If it were me, I would politely tell them to leave. To me, its not about "having anything to hide," its the principal. I wonder if people are scrutinized this badly for buying a lot of diesel fuel.

cubbieman · 09-13-2007, 05:03 PM

most people who intend to do harm are not going to have alot of guns, they think a gun is a gun and aren't likely to have more than 1 or 2. but as there is with every generalization there are exceptions to that

CrazyIvan · 09-13-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lng Rng

If it were me, I would politely tell them to leave. To me, its not about "having anything to hide," its the principal. I wonder if people are scrutinized this badly for buying a lot of diesel fuel.

Perhaps, if you buy it in conjunction with a large amount of fertilizer.

SilverRun · 09-13-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty o

i dont believe you have anything to be worried about. on the other hand if they by some dumb reason decided to pay you a visit, dont let them inside your home without a warrant.

I agree 100% with this. They don't have enough information to get a warrant. So, do not voluntarily let them in. Be polite and stand outside your front door and answer any questions you feel comfortable with. But, be careful - especially regarding how many firearms you have sold lately. They are likely looking for people selling guns on the side - straw purchases, blackmarket stuff. Remember you have done nothing wrong, so they don't have anything. Don't give them anything!

SPOCAHP ANAR · 09-13-2007, 07:50 PM

You should answer any questions they need to know; this being said they don't need to know anything without a warrant.

As said above do not allow a warrantless search. Be polite as you tell them to GFT.

BTW I thought the NICS searches were destroyed after you called in. How would they know how many guns you bought? Someone should really look into this!

just_a_car · 09-13-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

BTW I thought the NICS searches were destroyed after you called in. How would they know how many guns you bought? Someone should really look into this!

That's a good point....

Almost something worth hiring a lawyer for.

Beer Forever · 09-13-2007, 08:45 PM

They want to make sure you are not a crazy nut. As Americans we are still aloud to own guns, what can they do. Sucks to have the man after you. Think right now they are gathering info on you and doing an investigation on your whole background.

SilverRun · 09-13-2007, 09:09 PM

Did you buy more than one handgun from the same dealer within 5 business days? If so he had to fill out one of these forms. That would be my best guess of how they singled you out.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f33104.pdf

Another good read: GOF: When The BATF Pays A Visit

09-13-2007, 11:58 AM	#1
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,680 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	ATF come a Knockin ? HELP Well my ffl dealer said that i bought 4 handguns in one month and the atf contacted him regarding me and what he thought i was doing buying so many guns ! he said i was legit and a collecter , they varified my adress and phone number with my dealer. So you think they might come peek into my safe? i dont care really, but dang this is rediculous! anyone have this happen to them? any tips , thoughts would be helpful . thanks __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

09-13-2007, 12:14 PM	#2
CrazyIvan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Englewood, CO Posts: 2,338	Remind them that you passed the background check. Remind them you are a collector and enthusiast. Allow them to check your home, but be sure you are in compliance with your local and state laws regarding storage of firearms (if there are any where you live). And cautiously remind them that it only takes one gun in one idiot's hands to kill someone, though you are not an idiot and have no intention on harming anyone. Don't allow them to take photos, shut down any computers you have in your home before the come in, especially if they are on a wireless network. Don't allow them to take any notes while in your home. Remind them that you are allowing them to come in on your own accord to show your good faith, but don't let them forget that it is on your terms. If they ask to do anything or look anywhere you are uncomfortable with, ask them to leave and get a warrant. I would suggest sitting a tape/digital audio recorder with a high-sensitive mic on a table or somewhere where your conversation can be recorded. Make them aware of the device upon their entry and ask them to state their names and badge #'s loudly enough so it can be recorded. I would say use a video camera, but if these guys do any undercover work, you don't want to damage that. This is, of course, considering they do show up at your door, which they probably won't. __________________ "Minimum wage, minimum effort." "Never underestimate the power of stupidity." ~Me Last edited by CrazyIvan; 09-13-2007 at 12:20 PM.

09-13-2007, 12:22 PM	#3
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,680 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	yeah i live in rural north ga , and my ffl said they might just call a sherrif from my county to check me out . thanks Crazy Ivan for your help . thanks alot __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

09-13-2007, 12:37 PM	#4
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,678	You got me wondering now, but I've bought 6 firearms but not in 1 month period. Oh I hope they pay me a visit, that would be one of the high lights of my life !!! And before I let them in I'll turn Herbert loose in the house....LMAO !!! On a more serious note I wouldn't be ugly to them and I would WANT them to see I'm La-git and i would even try real hard to act normal...LOL Last edited by ArkansasHunter; 09-13-2007 at 08:21 PM.

09-13-2007, 02:06 PM	#8
troylaplante Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Selma, NC Posts: 2,223	GOF: When The BATF Pays A Visit __________________ troylaplante.com

09-13-2007, 01:08 PM	#5
Idaho Dave Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 531	odd, scary. Be calm, answer all questions honestly, politly, even freindly. I would agree with Ivan I would constantly, not agressively, remind them that you bought the guns in a legal manner and that you are not denied rights to do so. Ask nicely several times why it is that they are visiting you. I would also record everything with video, not in secret let them see that you are doing it, it will ensure that they act with good manners. speak clearly and ask them to repeat any statements that may not have been picked up. If it were me this entire conversation would take place on the fornt pourch. I personally would never consent to a warrentless search of my property, I have nothing to hide there but it is my constitutionally given right and I would stick by it. If they see your guns, and you have more then a few, they are going to have lots more questions and then want to start writing down serial numbers. Like Ivan said they start taking notes they will stay there. Told a UHP officer no one night when he asked if he could look in my car. Again I had nothing to hide I just said "I don't submit to or agree with warrentless searches sir" he asked "why, do you have something to hide?" and gave me a stern look. I looked right back and said "no sir just exersizing my rights, sir" after a second he said "Well, I dont balme you there." Gave me a ticket for speeding and sent me on my way. Don't be affraid you have the right to by and collect firearms as long as it is done in a legal manner. be nice but dont let them make you feel like you are doing something worng. unless you are then I say good luck to you

09-13-2007, 01:46 PM	#6
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,785	i dont believe you have anything to be worried about. on the other hand if they by some dumb reason decided to pay you a visit, dont let them inside your home without a warrant.

09-13-2007, 02:05 PM	#7
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,678	I wonder what tips them off and i would ask them how they get there information in regards to the quanity of firearms a person buys. I wouldn't give them a hard time, matter of fact I would treat them the way I would want to be treated and I'd ask them if they were hireing ! And I wouldn't let lil Herbert nibble on there shoes !! LOL...A.H

09-13-2007, 02:18 PM	#9
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,680 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	thanks guys , troy i dont have a ffl im just a private citizen so what do you think is wise for a non licenesd citizen ? thinks agian guys . ill let you know if anything ever does come of this crap or not . __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

09-13-2007, 03:09 PM	#10
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,504	I have to agree with some of the gents above: Do not submit to a warrantless search. As mentioned before: Be polite, but not submissive. Explain that you understand they're only trying to do their job, but that you respectfully refuse to give up {insert Constitutional right here}. Video taping is a decent idea, but so it voice recording. It's easily concealable and is legal in most states. I know in WA, if it's a public location, you need no permission. If you get nervous, remember, this is your home and they are guests, if they get out of line, treat them as you would any other unruly guest and politely ask them to leave, even if they haven't entered yet. __________________

09-13-2007, 04:14 PM	#11
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,680 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	we shall see what comes about . this is america dang it . __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

09-13-2007, 04:48 PM	#13
Lng Rng Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 944	If it were me, I would politely tell them to leave. To me, its not about "having anything to hide," its the principal. I wonder if people are scrutinized this badly for buying a lot of diesel fuel.

09-13-2007, 05:03 PM	#14
cubbieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,481	most people who intend to do harm are not going to have alot of guns, they think a gun is a gun and aren't likely to have more than 1 or 2. but as there is with every generalization there are exceptions to that

09-13-2007, 07:50 PM	#17
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,085 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	You should answer any questions they need to know; this being said they don't need to know anything without a warrant. As said above do not allow a warrantless search. Be polite as you tell them to GFT. BTW I thought the NICS searches were destroyed after you called in. How would they know how many guns you bought? Someone should really look into this! __________________ Spocrest Out!.......... Last edited by SPOCAHP ANAR; 09-13-2007 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

09-13-2007, 08:45 PM	#19
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	They want to make sure you are not a crazy nut. As Americans we are still aloud to own guns, what can they do. Sucks to have the man after you. Think right now they are gathering info on you and doing an investigation on your whole background. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

09-13-2007, 09:09 PM	#20
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,661	Did you buy more than one handgun from the same dealer within 5 business days? If so he had to fill out one of these forms. That would be my best guess of how they singled you out. http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f33104.pdf Another good read: GOF: When The BATF Pays A Visit Last edited by SilverRun; 09-13-2007 at 09:11 PM.