[Triggerjerk]

Okay...I had mentioned that I was looking for an Enfield or Mauser, and member samuel brought up a very good point...one that I had been thinking about...ammo for the SHTF rifle.

He told me that my choice may not be the best, because the ammo is obsolete. While the cartridge is an old one, it is readily available and still in production by modern ammo makers. So, it is not obsolete. (like maybe old pin fire stuff) But samuel is making a good point. Ammo availability.

He recommends a modern military cartridge. Okay, that has it's ups and downs, too. One of the ups is that there is a lot more of it produced. One of the downs is that today's .223 could be tomorrow's .303 British. The armed services could go to .308, for example, five years down the road. .223 will still be available, just like .303 is today. There will still be demand, so the makers will supply.

My thought is to buy the rifle that you think will serve you best, and have a small, but decent, supply of ammo.

What are your thoughts on this? By the way, let me qualify my position by saying that I do not believe that guns will be outlawed. Politicians and weenies will try, but I've been watching things since the Gun Control Act of 1968. There are battles to be fought to keep our rights. But I do not think that we will lose.

[ArkansasHunter]

I to agree with you about guns NOT being outlawed.
I'm eager to see the ammo answear you recieve. I'm under the impression the US Military is changeing calibers.

[Triggerjerk]

I am not a big fan of the .223. I know that it has it's place, but I want a .22 rimfire and a centerfire in the .30 caliber range. As the late Col. Cooper put it (and I paraphrase) a cartridge that will stop a man or a horse or a truck within the limits of the rifle's range.

[ezearln]

To be honest I see nothing wrong with using what sam refers to as an obsolete cartridge as long as one maintains an adequate stockpile of ammunition. While some members here have huge quantities of ammo stockpiled I don't truly anticipate a SHTF situation lasting for any really significant period of time requiring such gargantuan numbers. While anything I suppose is possible a reasonable stockpile in MHO would be 1000 rds of Ball (Combat) 250 rds of SP or HP (Hunting) for each weapon you have selected as your primary defense weapon.

[toolman]

Another thing to keep in mind is, many people have not stockpiled any ammo precisely because the cal. they shoot IS very common, ie:.223, .308, .30-06, etc. and they think they can get it anywhere. This may cause existing supplies to rapidly dwindle when the SHTF while the "obsolete" calibers are still sitting on the shelves. Just another viewpoint.

[samuel]

I should have stated the .303 and 8mm are obsolete military rounds.The 7.62+39mm,5.56+45mm,7.62+51mm,9mm,.45acp and such are modern military rounds.During the battle for their homeland the Israelis were using basically 7.62+51 and were very low on ammo.Basically they were fighting the Palistinians.but also the British.They found a certain lipstic tube made in Britain that could be tooled to be loaded and fired in a 7.62 NATO.They ordered these empty tubes from England and made them into cartridges.While this is one way to resuply,I believe the better way is to have the same weapon cal everyone else has so you can be resuplied or resuply your friends and confiscate from your enemies.I would guess it would be simple to find almost any cartridge in a hunting situation,in a SHTF situation I doubt that it would be easy to find .303 or 8mm.Ez,you mention getting things back to normal so there isnt any reason to have more than a limited supply.Often Seals and such were carrying 600rds+ and ran out of ammo within 24hrs.The .22lr was mentioned.It is great but may not do in 10rds what a centerfire does in 1rd.I think the old blunderbusk,s would be okay but I would prefer something more modern that could probably be supplyed by ammo caried by someone else,just in case I ran out due to shooting mine up or being separated from my source.I doubt that I would be carrying all of my ammo all of the time. sam.

[billy]

i dont buy that entire scenario.
i have a boatload of ammo in various calibers because i reload and i like to shoot.
whenever i buy a gun in a caliber that i dont already have i spend a couple hundred dollars on ammo for it.
i have about at least about 500 for each caliber firearm i own .
so when the zombies come i can pick and choose which flavor i feel like using.

[samuel]

You should buy the scenerio you believe in and has proven successful for you.The one that proved successful for me was to be armed with the same cal.weapon as my counterparts and comrads so I could supply them or vice versa,or be armed with what my adversary was carrying so I could resupply from him.He didnt need it anymore,I did.Do you plan on carrying all of that ammo and firearms with you all of the time? sam.

[ezearln]

That is very true Sam but then again we're not anticipating protracted combat in a survival situation but defense as needed from looters or others intent on acquiring our resources. That said I stand by my view that a minimum as stated in my last post should be sufficient in any but the worse scenarios. That said I mean in no way to infer that additional stockpiles would not be prudent. However I see no real situation arising that would require the quantities of ammunition some have on hand! 80,000 rds is a bit much I believe.

[samuel]

Few people realise how much 80,000rds of even 5.56+45mm is.You would be tying yourself to your magazine and no longer be mobile as you must be to survive. sam.

[ezearln]

LOL true enough and I am one of the few who do realize exactly how much 80,000rds of anything is I maintained and supervised magazine loadouts on more than a fair share of combatant ships during my career. But then again I am not saying more than a 1000 rds couldn't be cached in hidey holes around your AO for you to resupply from as needed. I do see and understand your point about ammo compatability and use.

[Triggerjerk]

Well, as I said in my first post, samuel is bringing up a very good point. And his resupply point is well taken. I have not been in the armed service, nor have I seen combat. That said, I do not anticipate an apoctalyptic event that will require ammo resupply. To be honest, where I live I do not expect any SHTF action.

I want the rifle to be prepared for a time when I may have to take a deer. Or, maybe there will be some kind of social problem that a rifle will solve. In that event, I will have the rifle and ammo ready. I am already where I need to evacuate to. My ammo and I are stying here.

The observation that samuel made is still a good one, and something to think about. There seem to be many different opinions, here, on this subject.

[Cyrille]

Well what about "rolling your own?" Stock up on the componants i.e. lead, powder primers, brass etc. I realize this scene may limit your range of movement but what we want to do is protect our homes and loved ones is it not? Stock up and meld the componants together than take only the ammo you've put together and as much of the "makins" as you can safely and swiftly carry, along with the firearm(s) of choice.

[SilverRun]

A couple points.
The main reason I have a supply of ammo on had is for those times like recently when you couldn't find a particular caliber (7.62x39).

I guess it is good to have some in reserve for a SHTF scenario, but really how many rounds would you need? If you are firing over a 1000 rounds in a shtf situation - you are in deep "S"htf.

As to popular military rounds drying up, I don't see that happening until someone perfects a new technology that makes gun powder obsolete. Their are thousands of .223 rifles in the country. So long as people will pay money to feed them - someone will supply it.

[samuel]

I would bet people all over the world thought:Well it wont happen here:Earth quakes in the mideast,forest fires in the western U.S.,floods in Kansas,oklahoma,Texas,floods in Europe,and Katrena!!!I would venture to bet the people in the sunami never guessed they would be starving to death in just a few days and because of their leaders the supplys couldnt be delivered inland by a willing U.S.and others.I am really willing to bet the people in Louisiana never dreamed they would be shipped all over the U.S. some never to return and others to have their firearms confiscated by the very police that could not or would not protect them.And i will bet the victims of numerous earthquakes never dreamed they would still be out of shelter,medicine,and food three months after the SHTF.Just live in the boonies for a couple days and wake up and find everything is hunky-dory.When the little SHTF,s happen no one knows what it will take to fix it.As to ammo,in one shootout the police often fire hundreds of rounds to neutralise one or two bad guys.If you and yours are trying to stop several looters or such you might use ammo into the thousands and if you cant resuply you either die or run for it.What if you have a Mauser and plenty of ammo and a part breaks?Can you find parts?No one knows what will happen,how long it will last or how much it will take to survive.Even a little preparation is better than saying "I dont think it can happen here." sam.

[Triggerjerk]

Well, that's what we are doing, here. Preparing. We all need to decide what we are preparing for. I am not preparing for civil unrest the way somebody in a large city might. I am not going to bug out. I am where others want to bug out to. I really do not fear a dirty bomb the way a New Yorker does.

My end of the world scenario, if you can call it that, is another economic depression caused by oil supplies being cut off. In that event I may want to harvest a deer to feed my family and my friends. I do not think that hoards of unrestful, violent, armed people will descend on my little village in New Hampshire. I do not feel the need for a black rifle. If I lived in New Orleans I might.

All of us on this web site are WAY ahead of the others that do not own guns. Even a .22 rifle or a .38 revolver puts us way ahead of the non-shooters. All of us have that going for us.

[billy]

if for some horrible reason i had to live in a s#!T hole like new orleans.
i would have all kinds of large cap weapons.

[sniper1958]

Billy hit it on the head - RELOAD. Once you eat the initial cost, reloading is not that expensive and you can customize the round for YOUR rifle. Lyman dies aren't as expensive as RCBS and a single stage press can be had for around $80 every Holiday season. Buy some brass when you can, projectiles when you can and primers and powder. A little here, a little there and before long, you have the makings of building your own stockpile.

If you can afford to do that and buy commercial ammo, you are well ahead of the game. Reloading is good for a rainy or snowy weekend and it's not uncommon to load one rifle round every 30-60 seconds (if you must). Something to think about...

[SilentSoul]

In reference to 5.56 and the military's use of it. I have heard rumor they will be going to a new 6.8spc remington round.

[damage855]

the 6.8spc has already joined the dodo bird.it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. plus the logistics in changing calibers would be a nightmare. the military is looking now at a heavier 5.56 round instead.