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Old 11-02-2007, 12:27 PM   #1
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Accuracy

So Im thinking about getting a Nagant because I need another gun to reload for and another project. I would like to start by buying one first, always a good place to start Then mounting a scope on it and, refinishing and glass bedding the stock and working over the trigger. What I would like to know is what kind of accuracy am I going to get? Ive read some places they get 5 inch groups and other places there getting 1 inch groups. Tell me what you guys think.
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Old 11-02-2007, 12:48 PM   #2
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I think the man shooting the 1" group is standing 5 times closer to the 100yd target than the one shooting the 5" group. sam.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:25 PM   #3
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That bad, huh?
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Old 11-02-2007, 05:10 PM   #4
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No Jager, not that bad, even with surplus ammo.

I just participated in a postal match. While results are not in yet, I do believe I did well.

I have a Mosin M44 carbine made in 1944, and shot 50 yards using Czech military surplus made in, oh, '62 or so. We used an SR-1 target. The X-ring is an inch across, and I plunked three of five rounds into that circle.

This was with stock sights.

If I had been shooting heavy commercial, I would have had all five shots in the X-ring.

You will not see the full accuracy potential of your rifle with stock sights and surplus ammo. That ammo is fun to plink with and the sights cover maybe 4" at 50 yards.

This is likely where people get the inaccuracy myth. You do realize the .30-'06 and the .30-30 are inaccurate as well, right?

I did do quite a bit of work on the insides of my barrel to make it shoot like this. All I did was I cleaned out the copper layer, then the grime layer, then a thin rust layer.

The M44 is considered a carbine, and inaccurate by the way.

My next project will be a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 (the long rifle), cleaned up as I did the M44, with a low power, forward-mounted 'scope on it. This will be a dedicated sharpshooter and will be used to take coyote at long range.

But think about it: If 3/5 surplus rounds stayed under an inch at 50 yards for me, with the flyers being my fault, and also due to the course sights, then my carbine should theoretically do under 2" at 100 yards if I were to 'scope it and bench it at that distance.

The sniper models did 1.5" on the outside, and were just stock rifles pulled off the assembly line due to accuracy during testing. They were outfitted with a 'scope and a bent bolt handle, and called a "sniper rifle."

Finnish snipers didn't even use a 'scope. If you feel like drilling and tapping for a 'scope, find a Finnish M/N. They were a bit anal about accuracy.


This is a 50yd 2" group fired by me, standing, with a field expedient rest. Discounting the flyer and shots fired at the wrong elevation, I managed what I feel is good accuracy.


Again, discounting the flyer, a good group. Remember that the front sight appeared larger than this group at distance, and I did a lot of guesswork to make them punch the paper where they did.

I say get one, learn it, then spend some time fixing it up.

Josh <><
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Old 11-02-2007, 06:25 PM   #5
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Can the bayonet lug on the m44 be removed? I would like the length of the gun to remain short for quick handling but be able to shoot accurately out to two hundred yards, am I asking to much?
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Old 11-02-2007, 06:43 PM   #6
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m44 group @ 100 yds.
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Old 11-02-2007, 07:10 PM   #7
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Quote:       Originally Posted by Jager View Post
That bad, huh?
Actually I was joking.I have had and seen some old military types that shot good.Some under 2" at 100yds with nothing done to them.Hard telling what they would do if someone worked on them.I believe you could get some of them under an inch.Some of the rules are a holdback in competition,I never competed in military rifles but often watched.Looks like fun. sam.
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Old 11-02-2007, 07:13 PM   #8
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the group i posted was from a polish m-44 that has a perfect bore and was locked into a high quality benchrest setup.
with good ammo
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Old 11-02-2007, 07:44 PM   #9
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I have a 91/30 and the M44 and was somewhat disappointed. But it appears if a guy does some work things will get better. I would not take a (humane) shot past 50 yards on a coyote or deer at this point.

You can't beat the price on them and ammo. They're a good investment and I do love them.

billy what scope and mount you using? Got pics of the set up. Must have long eye relief on it ehhhh?
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:30 PM   #10
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with surplus rifles, there is no guarantee of what you are going to get. you may aquire a decent shooter, or a complete lemon. if you want a milsurp with a very hi chance of being an excellent shooter look at swedish mausers or schmidt rubins. for a lower cost than hacking(sporterizing- and yes ive done some myself) up a milsurp, you can pick up a nice package rifle from one of several manufacturers, and know you will at least have a rifle that will shoot well.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:56 PM   #11
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Got to try my Mosin 1891 for the first time. Just 8 rounds at 61m. The woods are too thick for a proper 100m target. Wonderful performance. This weapon is freshly cleaned from preservative grease and fr sight was already to the left, but seemed on target as is.Too bad I was ready to go with the fr sight adjuster tool I bought from that "shameless plug" posted a while ago. I tried uploading pictures of target, even a branch shot off with deflection. Will try to place them in range memories " in the photo gallery.

Great rifle, obviously designed for the combat of those days, large volleys semi skilled conscripts and trenches. Not comfortable to load and fire, the whole mountain was echoing. Had a great time.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:26 PM   #12
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Quote:       Originally Posted by killer View Post
I have a 91/30 and the M44 and was somewhat disappointed. But it appears if a guy does some work things will get better. I would not take a (humane) shot past 50 yards on a coyote or deer at this point.

You can't beat the price on them and ammo. They're a good investment and I do love them.

billy what scope and mount you using? Got pics of the set up. Must have long eye relief on it ehhhh?
that is the ugliest gun ive got.
it looks like caca.
somebody mutilated it .
it looks like the bayo was cut off with a hacksaw by a drunk with no thumbs.
its got a scout mount and a elcheapo scope.
it cost $45 with a box of hunting ammo thrown in.





too bad..... before some bone head got a hold of it it was a nice one.
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Last edited by billy; 11-03-2007 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:03 PM   #13
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Billy: I did not work on that rifle.It looks too good for me.Quit calling me bonehead.That is too nice a name for me.All jokes aside,I have worked on mostly Mausers and customised them,not sporterised.New bbl,s,wood,scopes,actions straightened,heat treated,bolts customised,mags changed.A lot of money and a lot of rifle when done.I see nothing wrong in someone working on their own rifle.After all it is their rifle.If someone wants to keep an obsolete war weapon original they should buy one and do it and let the other person do what they please. sam.

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Old 11-03-2007, 06:54 PM   #14
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Hey that top one's mine!
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Old 11-05-2007, 06:50 PM   #15
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hmm i was thinking of putting a scope on the sight of my nagant just like that but nooo that just looks too ugly [no offense] y dont u take it out and put it on the receiver?


Quote:       Originally Posted by billy View Post
that is the ugliest gun ive got.
it looks like caca.
somebody mutilated it .
it looks like the bayo was cut off with a hacksaw by a drunk with no thumbs.
its got a scout mount and a elcheapo scope.
it cost $45 with a box of hunting ammo thrown in.





too bad..... before some bone head got a hold of it it was a nice one.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:11 PM   #16
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cuz im lazy and it came that way
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:22 PM   #17
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Can you tell me about the rings and rifles on that first rifle billy? Is that a 91/30 or something else? And are the rings mounted directly to the rifle with no scope base?
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:48 PM   #18
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Quote:       Originally Posted by .22guy View Post
Can you tell me about the rings and rifles on that first rifle billy? Is that a 91/30 or something else? And are the rings mounted directly to the rifle with no scope base?
Yeah, he found that the dovetails fit directly onto the dovetail mount for the rear sight block. That billy, he's so smeert!
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:16 PM   #19
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yep im smartifical!
thats a 91-30 without the sight and a 3/8 ringset (i think it was 3/8)
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:53 PM   #20
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it looks like the bayo was cut off with a hacksaw by a drunk with no thumbs.
Nice
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