[LEE3370]

I'm sorry that my understanding was wrong.

[Shamgar]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TXplt

There's no registration here (and thus no "name"), and no requirement to report lost or stolen firearms, nor private sales; however, you can't be too careful.

I also live here in Texas, and this is correct. However, the person who bought the gun (assuming they didn't buy it by private sale) went through a NICs check. While they say it's not registration, they also don't destroy the records like they're supposed to by law. Which makes it a defacto registration.

As the seller you definitely want to be able to prove you divested yourself of the gun, and when. Just in case. As the buyer, you want to be able to prove when you came into possession of it - again just in case.

It's just not worth taking a chance when the stakes are that high.

[Shamgar]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Capt'n Mil Coll

I purchase firearms from individuals all the time. I intentionally DO NOT keep records of these transactions. I do not have an ffl 01 or a cr 03 and NO LAW says I have to record any of these purchases or sales. -snip- Actually unless your state demands you keep records of these sales your better off not to. Then not one govt agency can come back at you for buying or selling a firearm.

Since I posted on the other point, I'll reply to this one too. I understand the sentiment here, and it is correct. You don't /have/ to. I understand the thought that not having a record might help you. However, since there is no law that you have one, if it becomes an issue it is entirely up to you whether you tell anyone you have it or not, and whether or not you produce it.

I think your statement that "not one govt agency can come back at you" is a little naive however. If a murder is committed with a firearm NICs has "registered" to you, and they come after you and you don't have proof you sold the firearm on a given day - don't think they're going to just take your word for that.

I know we'd all like to think that our justice system still works on the basis of 'innocent until proven guilty' but all too often these types of failure to CYA end up in innocent people being at the very least bankrupted trying to maintain their innocence and their freedom, and at the worst being convicted of a crime you didn't commit.

Obviously it's a (somewhat) free country, and it's up to you how you handle this. However I would recommend you keep a receipt - even if you tell no-one. If the receipt turns out to be a liability, you can always burn it. You can't produce it after the fact if it turns out you needed it.

[Seabeescotty]

Lots of good info on this thread! I've bought firearms from individuals, face to face, and never kept records, but now, having a license, I prefer to keep everything on paper, to protect myself and my business. If your state doesn't require it, don't do it, but make sure you know the individual you're dealing with.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shamgar

I think your statement that "not one govt agency can come back at you" is a little naive however. If a murder is committed with a firearm NICs has "registered" to you, and they come after you and you don't have proof you sold the firearm on a given day - don't think they're going to just take your word for that. .

Im sorry but NICS is not allowed to keep records of what firearm you bought or sold. Many politicians have tried to get that enacted but the NRA has kept them from it.

Again this is a PRIVATE FACE TO FACE SALE. There are NO RECORDS of it. There is NO REASON TO KEEP RECORDS OF IT.
That is my point. When I have more time I will show you why.

[TXplt]

^ I understand everyone's points. Although the NICS doesn't keep a copy of the transaction, if you buy a gun in any kind of non-private transaction, there's a 4473 somewhere. This is a form of de-facto gun registration, although private transactions, losses, destroyed guns, etc. have no paper trail beyond this. As far as I know, these forms are kept forever. If your name's on the 4473 and the gun is used improperly later for whatever reason (maybe well after a legal private sale, loss, etc.), you might have some explaining to do

The correct answer would be legislation that mandates the destruction of these and all records and forms after a certain time period (30-90 days maybe). Maybe the NRA should get started on having Congress introduce this.

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Oxford

One place to start is by reading gun sales rules shown in the following link. Brady Campaign - The Brady Law: Preventing Crime and Saving Lives However, buying from an individual circumvents the rules FFL dealers must abide by. At the very least, determine who/how the seller acquired the gun. If you're still in doubt...or uneasy with the purchase, then don't buy it. You might end up with a gun which is has more potential trouble for you than you're bargaining for.

Sorry, I know this post is old, but since someone else must have replied to the thread and caused it to again be brought to the front page, I just have to ask. >>>

Why, when there are so many many more helpful sites, that aren't anti-gun, was this link in the above quote even posted as a place to look for information in regards to a private sale? I mean, as I said, there are so many other ones that aren't anti-gun. WHY?

I know people have a right to post what they want, but why one that has done and continues to do and continues to try to do more damage to gun owners and a gun owners rights and the 2nd Amendment?

[Shamgar]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TXplt

The correct answer would be legislation that mandates the destruction of these and all records and forms after a certain time period (30-90 days maybe). Maybe the NRA should get started on having Congress introduce this.

We've actually have this requirement, it just isn't done. And who exactly is going to make them?

[TXplt]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shamgar

We've actually have this requirement, it just isn't done. And who exactly is going to make them?

Really ? I didn't know that--I thought they were required to be on file indefinitely (or at least as long as the FFL was in business). Maybe I was mistaken ?

[Mike Franklin]

A gun business has to keep records until they go out of business, sales records then go to ATF where they're most likely lost.
If you're concerned make out a Bill of Sale. Get the buyers/sellers Driver's License number. KISS

[LEE3370]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TXplt

Really ? I didn't know that--I thought they were required to be on file indefinitely (or at least as long as the FFL was in business). Maybe I was mistaken ?

4473's DO go on and on even if you don't pass the NICS check.

" (b) Firearms transaction record. Licensees shall retain each Form
4473 and Form 4473(LV) for a period of not less than 20 years after the
date of sale or disposition. Where a licensee has initiated a NICS check
for a proposed firearms transaction, but the sale, delivery, or transfer
of the firearm is not made, the licensee shall record any transaction
number on the Form 4473, and retain the Form 4473 for a period of not
less than 5 years after the date of the NICS inquiry. Forms 4473 shall
be retained in the licensee's records as provided in Sec. 478.124(b):
Provided, That Forms 4473 with respect to which a sale, delivery or
transfer did not take place shall be separately retained in alphabetical
(by name of transferee) or chronological (by date of transferee's
certification) order."

[Powderman]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LEE3370

Is it a longgun or a handgun? I think (I said "I think") there is a federal law now against private handgun sales everywhere in the US of A. All handgun sales must go through an FFL holder.

Ummm...nope.

[LEE3370]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Powderman

Ummm...nope.

Check out post 21.
I done said I was sorry for being wrong on that point.
Once is enough.

[big shrek]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Capt'n Mil Coll

I purchase firearms from individuals all the time. I intentionally DO NOT keep records of these transactions. I do not have an ffl 01 or a cr 03 and NO LAW says I have to record any of these purchases or sales. This is a private sale and I dont have to keep any record of it any more than I do if I sell you a used toaster. Actually unless your state demands you keep records of these sales your better off not to. Then not one govt agency can come back at you for buying or selling a firearm.

Being slightly paranoid is good, make a record of when you purchased it for this reason if none else...Because SOMEONE Somewhere may have previously used the weapon in an illicit manner and YOU could use a log of when you purchased it and from WHOM for your protection.

Imagine you buy a rifle and a few months later you have a domestic disturbance/whatever at your house...SOP for most departments is to confiscate all weapons lying about in plain view in the home...and most then test-fire them to see if there is any connection to an other crime...and if the bullet matches up to anything and you can't PROOVE that it wasn't yours at the time, it's YOUR AZZ!!

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

^ Never hit a woman in anger in my life. I dont leave ANY firearms laying around. I have 4 that are locked on a rack at any one time. Every other one is locked up very securely. The possibility of any of my firearm being tested and me being accused of using it in a crime is so remote that it is not a statical possibility. I do what makes ME SAFE. To keep records of PRIVATE sales creates a liability against me. If you cannot see that, you are putting YOURSELF at risk by doing so. I feel sorry for you. Im sure if the government came to your door and said they were taking everyones firearms you would give them to them. I wouldnt.

[2Risky]

I wonder if some could clairify a question I have about a private gun sale.

I am thinking of purchasing an Armalite AR 10 A2 (Post Ban) from a private party in NH. I am a ME resident.

Is it lawfull to do this without an FFL?

[jmp8927]

Far as I know it would be if y'all drove and met face to face. You can't send it through the mail or anything of that sort. If it's someone you don't know personally, I suggest going through an FFL and have them do a check on the gun.

[stalebiscuit]

in georgia, its simple

you give him cash....he gives you gun

for your own protection and his yall should both write up a bill of sale (just a piece of paper that has the make, model, serial number, caliber of the gun, the date gun was bought, both your names, drivers license numbers, and signatures)

thats it

[larmus]

one you need to check the laws of both states regarding the sale of weapons from individuals to another individual...

two you need to check the laws regarding the transport of firearms across county and state lines...

three you need to check the laws in your state regarding the owning of such a weapon...

you want to do everything by the book if not ya could get into some big trouble!

[Mooseman684]

Quote:       Originally Posted by 2Risky

I wonder if some could clairify a question I have about a private gun sale. I am thinking of purchasing an Armalite AR 10 A2 (Post Ban) from a private party in NH. I am a ME resident. Is it lawfull to do this without an FFL?

Unfortunately , it is Not Lawful to do this...A ftf transfer can only be done by 2 residents of the same state in that state....Only Black powder guns are not restricted in that aspect or Antique guns older than 1898...
This Info is On the BATFE website.
Your friend in NH can send it to YOUR FFL dealer in ME , for lawful transfer to you.