[samuel]

Quote:       Originally Posted by zxpilot

So you think blowing a fist size hole in a deer spraying lung everwhere sprinting 40 to 100 yds pouring out blood the whole way is more ethical than me turning off the lights on a deer instantly. Rrrrrrright. You guys have no clue what ethics are. I think the anti's would see it my way specially if they hunted with you then me. I can asure all those pics were with my hornet, that looks a lot worse than it is, its mostly blood on a white hog. You guys can keep stressing your deer meat, I prefer instant death, makes for better table fair. I have been busting them in the neck since the late 70's. If you dont feel comfortable doing it then by all means dont, but dont tell me how to do it, I'm not the one that comes here asking for help finding my deer.

I do not condemn you or question your ethics if you are an exceptional shot and are sucessful using a Hornet to kill pigs or deer for that matter.I am an accomplished shot and have used guns considered small for the game I was after.When doing so I never take a shot that I question whether it will work.And I never tell other hunters with little or no experience what I used.I don't want them trying the same thing.As you well know,it takes skill. The thing I would question your ethics on is posting that "anyone"can do it and putting pictures on to back it up.And by the way,anti's aren't going to agree with either of us.They don't even agree with themselves.They take in dogs and cats and then uthenise them.I am sure neither of us are that bad off. ,,,sam.

[gamehunter]

Man I love coming onto these forums and seeing the .223 is not big enough for deer arguments. Here in New Zealand the .223, 22-250 are very popular deer rounds hell even the .222 and the .22 hornet gets used and I have never once heard of a deer suffering after being shot by one infact I will be deer hunting in two weeks with a guy who swears by the .223 and he gets a one shot kill each time(and I have seen private videos of him killing a deer with a .22mag by shooting it through the eye). It is all about shot placement get the deer in the neck or around the back of the head and it is good night Irene every time save the engine room shots for the larger calibers. I currently hunt with a suppressed .308 but I am in the proces of putting a .223 in my gun cabinet for deer hunting as well as varmint shooting.

[JBS]

I used a '69 Chevelle SS396 one time. Dropped dat sucker in his tracks.

[tamalpias]

Quote:       Originally Posted by zxpilot

So you think blowing a fist size hole in a deer spraying lung everwhere sprinting 40 to 100 yds pouring out blood the whole way is more ethical than me turning off the lights on a deer instantly. Rrrrrrright. You guys have no clue what ethics are. I think the anti's would see it my way specially if they hunted with you then me. I can asure all those pics were with my hornet, that looks a lot worse than it is, its mostly blood on a white hog. You guys can keep stressing your deer meat, I prefer instant death, makes for better table fair. I have been busting them in the neck since the late 70's. If you dont feel comfortable doing it then by all means dont, but dont tell me how to do it, I'm not the one that comes here asking for help finding my deer.

Quote:       Originally Posted by gamehunter

Man I love coming onto these forums and seeing the .223 is not big enough for deer arguments. Here in New Zealand the .223, 22-250 are very popular deer rounds hell even the .222 and the .22 hornet gets used and I have never once heard of a deer suffering after being shot by one infact I will be deer hunting in two weeks with a guy who swears by the .223 and he gets a one shot kill each time(and I have seen private videos of him killing a deer with a .22mag by shooting it through the eye). It is all about shot placement get the deer in the neck or around the back of the head and it is good night Irene every time save the engine room shots for the larger calibers. I currently hunt with a suppressed .308 but I am in the proces of putting a .223 in my gun cabinet for deer hunting as well as varmint shooting.

I agree whole heartedly with you two. My friend in Canada harvest dozens of caribou with a 223 because it doesn't ruin the meat. That is also what they use to take down seals and other game animals in their diet. Another friend of mine who is a taxidermist uses his 223 exclusively for everything in North America including all his black bears. It is all about shot placement.

I have never tried using such a small caliber on deer before and tend to use my 308 because that is what I am most comfortable with. To see other hunters criticizing other fellow hunters who are cleanly taking down game animals with a 22 caliber rifle is rather ridicules. We are all in this together and try to grow the sport, the infighting will only draw us apart.

If the department of Fish and Game of each state has tested and determined that a 22 center-fire bullet is sufficient for game animals then what scientific proof do you have to show against it?

[JBS]

What are you using as far as ammo, in your .22 Hornet? If it's a home rolled load...I want it. I'm getting in the neighborhood of 2700 fps out of mine with 45gr Spire Point, 13gr of Lil Gun and a small pistol primer...shoots an inch at 100 meters. Whatcha' using? JB

[zxpilot]

Quote:       Originally Posted by JBS

What are you using as far as ammo, in your .22 Hornet? If it's a home rolled load...I want it. I'm getting in the neighborhood of 2700 fps out of mine with 45gr Spire Point, 13gr of Lil Gun and a small pistol primer...shoots an inch at 100 meters. Whatcha' using? JB

Your using the exact load I am, 13 or 13.2 grains of lil gun behind a hornady 45 sp.
I just started using a 50 gr nosler BT with 13.2 gr. At the range the 50 gr and the 45 gr hit exaclty the same and I mean exactly. I guess even though the 50 gr starts off a tad slower its higher BC makes it shoot just as flat.
Some of those were using plain ol rem. 45 gr HP,s.
My Hornet has a 1-9 twist so it doesnt have a problem with the 50 gr, yours might. I got this thing shooting pretty darn good, have done 5 at 3/4 "

[zxpilot]

Quote:       Originally Posted by samuel

I do not condemn you or question your ethics if you are an exceptional shot and are sucessful using a Hornet to kill pigs or deer for that matter.I am an accomplished shot and have used guns considered small for the game I was after.When doing so I never take a shot that I question whether it will work.And I never tell other hunters with little or no experience what I used.I don't want them trying the same thing.As you well know,it takes skill. The thing I would question your ethics on is posting that "anyone"can do it and putting pictures on to back it up.And by the way,anti's aren't going to agree with either of us.They don't even agree with themselves.They take in dogs and cats and then uthenise them.I am sure neither of us are that bad off. ,,,sam.

Sam Your one of the few that hasnt I know that.
This thread is if the .22-250 is big enough, and I am just posting a litle history of what I use, a much smaller version. So Ill I am saying is DUH ! ya a .22 -250 is big enough.
Ive never even seen or heard an anti here in Texas, so were lucky down here.
Theres nothing worse than wounding one, I know I have done it a few times with a bow and arrow. Talk about a borderline weapon that is one for sure, but people here accept it as ok and then condemn me for profitiently killing with a small caliber. If thats not ironic or hypocritical I dont know what is.
I just laugh at the self rightous internet hunters, it amazes me the lack of knowledge thats out there.
Just so you know I do have larger calibers, .243 and 7-08, I have even been told those are to small here on the internet. Pfffft ya right.
The deer around here havent evolved into bullet proof ones I hear so much about on the internet, anything more than a good hard stare kills ours around here.

[zxpilot]

another misconception is bullet failure a bullet that comes apart actually cause more internal damage than a bonded bullet that goes straight through.
These arent cape buffalo you know, they dont need 40" of penetration
I know theres a comprimise, we dont want our bullets coming apart on entry with no penetration but we also dont want pencil size hole in and out.

If I were in a survial condition my weapon of choice would be a 22 lr.
I could kill game from the size of a cow down to a bird with it and ammo is cheap and you could carry a bunch.

[338RUM]

Dear Moderator,

Could we get this thread shut down? This is going to go on forever and I would hate to see anyone get banned or something like that, This debate will never be settled and it has become a flaming contest....

Thanks 338RUM

[samuel]

I see nothing wrong with this thread and the way it is discussed.If we can't discuss this topic in the way it is being done for fear of someone being banned I guess all topics would carry the same danger.The pro,s and con,s have voiced their views and I am sure some wondering about the topic are getting good info.My view is you should be a better than average marksman and know what shots will work and not take shots you have doubts about to use a .22cal centerfire for larger than varmint game.I do however disagree about the varmint bullets.I believe in controlled expansion and penetration.Hard to find in varmint bullets. ,,,sam.

[JBS]

I've killed a lot of deer with a .22 Long Rifle using head shots, under 25-30 yards.... I don't doubt a Hornet will do the job with a head shot, too, at a fairly close range (50 yards and under) First deer I ever killed was an 8 point whitetail using #4 squirrel shot out of a 20 ga double barrel...range was under 10 yards. That's all I had to shoot with, or I would have used something else. I know a guy that uses a 22-250 for deer...period...and has no problems at all (on Whiteteil). I've never shot deer with my 22-250... or my Hornet...never had the chance. FWIW And I ain't flaming anyone. Just talking. JB

[rimfirenut]

Quote:       Originally Posted by JBS

I've killed a lot of deer with a .22 Long Rifle using head shots, under 25-30 yards.... I don't doubt a Hornet will do the job with a head shot, too, at a fairly close range (50 yards and under) First deer I ever killed was an 8 point whitetail using #4 squirrel shot out of a 20 ga double barrel...range was under 10 yards. That's all I had to shoot with, or I would have used something else. I know a guy that uses a 22-250 for deer...period...and has no problems at all (on Whiteteil). I've never shot deer with my 22-250... or my Hornet...never had the chance. FWIW And I ain't flaming anyone. Just talking. JB

Is the .22 L.R. legal in your area??? Here in Michigan it is illegal to use one on deer, only centerfire is legal with the minimum being .22 cal. All of the .22 L.R. taking deer around here is done at night by poachers.

[thrillbilly]

Quote:       Originally Posted by rimfirenut

Is the .22 L.R. legal in your area??? Here in Michigan it is illegal to use one on deer, only centerfire is legal with the minimum being .22 cal. All of the .22 L.R. taking deer around here is done at night by poachers.

LOL I agree...I aint never seen a "deer-hunting" .22LR that didn't have a spotlight laying next to it.


I am sick of this thread...
What some of you mini-gun proponents are failing to comprehend is that we aren't saying a .22CF won't kill deer...it will, with exactly the right aiming point, range, and bullet. We're saying that it is counterproductive to our sport's future to wildly brag and declare it. every time a seasoned hunter kills a deer with a .22CF by honing his shooting skills year-round, choosing his shots carefully, and hitting the neck/head, a rookie or amateur hunter will take that to mean anyone can do so. This leads to people taking 300 yard body shots on a animal...which leads to wounded deer, and adds ammo to the Anti's arsenal. I feel the same way about long-range shooting (with any caliber). Just because a small percentage of hunters can hit a deer at 400 yards, doesn't mean Joe Blow Hunter can, or should even try.

[JBS]

That was a typo...It was 'possums, not deer.

[Midas]

Alright folks, this has gone on long enough, it's obvious that nobody's opinion on the matter is going to be changed.