IS this LEO in the wrong?

troy2000 · 03-12-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasT

You're not serious, right?

I too long for the good old days, Texas T, when a cop could kick the crap out of a citizen and there were no video cameras to show him doing it. Life was wonderful then...

SwedeSteve · 03-13-2008, 12:01 AM

I've watched the video twice, and can only say, you are in the cops hands! Yes sir, no sir, three bags full!

TexasT · 03-13-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy2000

I too long for the good old days, Texas T, when a cop could kick the crap out of a citizen and there were no video cameras to show him doing it. Life was wonderful then...

Ah, those were the days.

toolman · 03-13-2008, 12:30 AM

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the cops paid him off and sent the officer to a training class, but I believe they're missing an important fact. In our current sue-happy society, there are lawyers standing in line just waiting for a case like this because it's like the bible, ie: open to interpretation unless you were there when it happened. Most P.D's don't have the money to fight a long, drawn-out case without suffering greatly because of it. This way, the guy got his pittance for "pain and suffering" and the P.D. gets to show that they are politically correct by sending the officer to a touchy-feely bunny-hugging class. The only thing that I think the officer was wrong about was being too casual about the stop, but I think he honestly thought that the guy would rightly accept his speeding ticket since he flat-out told the cop that he was driving 68 mph, yet had just drove past a 40 mph sign. After driving trucks both nationally and in Canada for ten years, I can tell you, they don't immediately drop the speed limit from 70 to 40 without ample warning. I was taught in drivers ed. many years ago, that when stopped by an officer, you act calm, be polite, and above all, do not argue with the officer-he's not the one who made the laws but it's his job to enforce them. In todays climate, officers are getting a bit quicker to use non-lethal force to stop what they perceive to be a threat, often with good cause. I'm surprised the guy didn't draw his gun when the guy stuck his hand in his pocket.

troy2000 · 03-13-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolman

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the cops paid him off and sent the officer to a training class, but I believe they're missing an important fact. In our current sue-happy society, there are lawyers standing in line just waiting for a case like this because it's like the bible, ie: open to interpretation unless you were there when it happened. Most P.D's don't have the money to fight a long, drawn-out case without suffering greatly because of it. This way, the guy got his pittance for "pain and suffering" and the P.D. gets to show that they are politically correct by sending the officer to a touchy-feely bunny-hugging class. The only thing that I think the officer was wrong about was being too casual about the stop, but I think he honestly thought that the guy would rightly accept his speeding ticket since he flat-out told the cop that he was driving 68 mph, yet had just drove past a 40 mph sign. After driving trucks both nationally and in Canada for ten years, I can tell you, they don't immediately drop the speed limit from 70 to 40 without ample warning. I was taught in drivers ed. many years ago, that when stopped by an officer, you act calm, be polite, and above all, do not argue with the officer-he's not the one who made the laws but it's his job to enforce them. In todays climate, officers are getting a bit quicker to use non-lethal force to stop what they perceive to be a threat, often with good cause. I'm surprised the guy didn't draw his gun when the guy stuck his hand in his pocket.

I think the officer was a complete idiot, more interested in proving he was in charge than in defusing the situation. I don't think anyone disagrees that the driver was also at fault, but control freaks probably shouldn't interact with the public while wearing a uniform and carrying weapons. As I said earlier, it's a good thing they have Tasers now, or he might have shot someone instead of shocking him.

I beg to differ with your statement that "they" don't drop the speed limit drastically without fair warning, and I've had the tickets to prove it a couple of times. You're less likely to run into that on truck routes, I guess.

pancolt · 03-13-2008, 04:17 AM

Acording to the utah highway patrol If you don't sign your ticket they can .1. file it unsignd 2. file it unsignd and add a charge of not signing it 3.Arrest you .And Now I guess, they can without telling Informing you your under arrest, tazer you leve you on the side of the road between two cars where you might get struck by a car. lie to another leo about what happend like (he was jumping all over over here over there . NO he was walking back towards his car. the fact is the officer pulled his taser while under NO threat and while the mans back was turned. The officers intentions were clear before he put his clipbord down .We need to weed out all bad apples like this I respect police I even have one in the familey and know what they put up with this was nothing but a man that thought he was getting an undeservd ticket and the police officer made it more than it had to be. ther is enough blame to go around but the police can't be judge and jury or we might as well hang it up.I would have sign the ticket got the dash cam and took it to court .done

And for thouse who wish for the good old days well all I can say is be carefull what you wish for you just might get it.

soonerborn · 03-13-2008, 07:23 AM

Without reiterating what has already been beaten to death here are a few points.

1. The cop totally blew the procedure for a traffic stop. He walked up there and immediately leaned into the car without a care in the world and did a poor job of explaining to the guy what was going on. He clearly had determined that there was no threat and showed it numerous times even after he told the guy to get out of the car when he turned his back on him. Clearly the officer was trying to teach this idiot a lesson about who was in charge and not his job. How can you go from this guy posses no threat to whipping out your taser that quick? I know situations can change but the guy did nothing to warrant any raising of the threat level.

2. This cops credibility is shot FOREVER. If he gets called to trial as a witness any attorney worth his salt is going to drag this video into evidence and totally discredit him for the blatant lies and distortion of what happened here. He will get torn apart and the DA will lose every case this officer testifies in (barring a slamdunk case). That should be grounds enough for dismissal. He cannot possibly effectively carry out his job anymore.

3. LEOs are held to a higher standard and rightly so. Its wrong for anyone to abuse them but they have to be able to maintain their cool and control of a situation by diffusing a potential problem like this instead of getting cocky and pouring gas on it.

In case you havent seen this before, this is a real professional making a traffic stop.

YouTube - Angry Driver Pulled Over

He knows the guy isnt a threat but he could easily have escalated the situation and he would have been completely justified. Instead he kept his cool under an extreme situation and should be held up as an example. That driver needs some anger management courses.

mitch009 · 03-13-2008, 02:05 PM

I agree that the officer jumped on the taser a little too soon and should of tried a more hands on approach with the guy first. But in his defense he told the guy multiple times to sign the ticket and he refused, when he was out of the car he told him multiple times to turn around and place his hands behind his back. This guy then knew he was being arrested and proceeded to turn away from the officer and put his hands in his pockets and walk towards his car. The officer had to deal with another passenger in the car who was becoming hysterical, and the suspect walking back to the car would only infuse the situation even more. He decided he would end it right there with a taser for everyones safety. Seems fine to me

BaserRonin · 03-13-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamburgerhelper

this was a you tube video right? therefore youtube videos can be edited.....therefore it is possible that this video was edited w/ the cop's warning edited out.......also, no-one mentioned the possibility that the suspect could be a repeat offender, and probably one of the local drunks.....we don't know the history of this perp, nor the arrest record, prior arrests, etc. the cops hands are tied enough as is today.....everyone is sue-happy....let this be a lesson to those thinking of mouthing-off to a cop. if you guys busted your azz every day finally arresting a criminal, only to see them bailed-out the next day....you too would become frustrated....how often do u think this happened before youtube....now the cops have to worry about somebody filming their every move....let these guys do their job....it's hard enough out there...if they become intimidating so what? they SHOULD BE....these idiots mouth-off to the cops now because they KNOW they can...if that idiot (suspect) had pulled that crap in the 50's, 60's, or 70's, he would have gotten an azz-kicking...so kudos to the cop...

Yes, how DARE john Q public question a cops motives! HOW DARE they question the abuse of power by those given power! I am with you! Power to the MAN! Bring BIG BROTHER ON!

Sooner: Yeah, that poor cop must have an interesting outlook on life to be able to shake that kind of abuse off and remain even mildly pleasant. Amazing to see. I can't even imagine the drivers life; living with that much rage would have to drive you crazy!

troy2000 · 03-13-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch009

I agree that the officer jumped on the taser a little too soon and should of tried a more hands on approach with the guy first. But in his defense he told the guy multiple times to sign the ticket and he refused, when he was out of the car he told him multiple times to turn around and place his hands behind his back. This guy then knew he was being arrested and proceeded to turn away from the officer and put his hands in his pockets and walk towards his car. The officer had to deal with another passenger in the car who was becoming hysterical, and the suspect walking back to the car would only infuse the situation even more. He decided he would end it right there with a taser for everyones safety. Seems fine to me

How many times must we repeat that signing the traffic ticket isn't a requirement in that state? It isn't a criminal offense, and it isn't necessary for convicting the driver. So why the Hell was he arresting him to begin with?

ArkansasHunter · 03-13-2008, 03:29 PM

I'll answear that one troy...It's simple that guy is a low life and should have never been aloud to be a cop.

troy2000 · 03-13-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

I'll answear that one troy...It's simple that guy is a low life and should have never been aloud to be a cop.

Good morning, A.H., and goodnight. I've been up half the day since getting off my 12-hour graveyard shift, and I should probably go to bed before I start influencing people and making enemies instead of friends...

mdj696 · 03-13-2008, 03:53 PM

I pulled a lady over once for speeding and she got real smart with me. She said I sure hope you've met your quota. Quota? I told her I met that a long time ago, with this one I can get the wife a new toaster. She drove away fuming.

LarryO1970 · 03-13-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdj696

I pulled a lady over once for speeding and she got real smart with me. She said I sure hope you've met your quota. Quota? I told her I met that a long time ago, with this one I can get the wife a new toaster. She drove away fuming.

LOL, priceless MDJ ... priceless...

Personally, I don't care if they go away mad... as long as they just go away.

troy2000 · 03-13-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdj696

I pulled a lady over once for speeding and she got real smart with me. She said I sure hope you've met your quota. Quota? I told her I met that a long time ago, with this one I can get the wife a new toaster. She drove away fuming.

Very nice; I like it. I doubt she appreciated your sense of humor, but I do...

On the other hand, I also get a laugh out of hearing police chiefs explain to a reporter that, "we have 'performance standards,' not quotas."

LarryO1970 · 03-13-2008, 04:01 PM

There are tools that PD's need... some things are paid for by budgets and others are paid for by the public. These are paid by some taxes... but mostly by the criminal offenses i.e. drunk drivers, speeders, robbers, etc.

Performance standards are fine... but sometimes (especially in small towns) you do not have the activity to "perform" the way necessary to make that standard.

Hence performance = quota.

troy2000 · 03-13-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

There are tools that PD's need... some things are paid for by budgets and others are paid for by the public. These are paid by some taxes... but mostly by the criminal offenses i.e. drunk drivers, speeders, robbers, etc.

Performance standards are fine... but sometimes (especially in small towns) you do not have the activity to "perform" the way necessary to make that standard.

Hence performance = quota.

I just noticed your signature, Larry. I like it.

I remember a couple of signs my older brother had above his desk. One said, "don't just DO something; STAND there!" the other said, "Be alert. The world needs more lerts..."

I used to keep a couple over my desk, too: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it is sometimes difficult to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." And, "I love mankind. It's people I can't stand."

LarryO1970 · 03-13-2008, 04:18 PM

All excellent choices...

I like these:
·"If you shoot me with a .25 ACP and I find out about it, I will personally kick your butt" - Anonymous
·“Be ashamed to die until you have done something good for mankind.”
American pastor Dr. Vernon Johnson during the Revolutionary War
·Beer, the cause and solution to all of lifes problems
-Homer Simpson
·People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
·“Some days I think the only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."
·Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.
·A politician will do anything to keep his job -- even become a patriot.
·Keep your head down and your powder dry...
·People are like slinkies, they bring a smile when you push them down stairs.

A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to “The United States of America” for an amount of “up to and including my life.”

tlarkin · 03-13-2008, 04:34 PM

The internet is a very interesting place, and no one is safe from the sharing of information now these days. A new site that spawned up not too long ago is causing some police and other LEO's to get quite upset. Then again, to use the ancient old argument, if you aren't doing anything wrong in the first place then why get upset?

RateMyCop.com

ezearln · 03-13-2008, 06:42 PM

Strange to me the actions of this Officer, he was without doubt overzealous to the point of stupidity in his actions. Had he been a probationer of mine he'd have found his tail (just like no small number I did fail) have been returned to the training site to learn how to effect a proper traffic stop! The officers first duty was to attempt to de-escalate the situation yet his actions clearly indicate he had absolutely no desire or intention to do so and immediately raised the potential stakes for serious injury both to himself and his (and yeah I am gonna say it) VICTIM! Depending upon where you are the laws differ on whether or not you are required to sign the citation or not, in any event signing the darned thing IS NOT an admission of guilt but simply an agreement that you will respond to the summons to deal with it. The young man tazed was foolish but clearly not a threat to the officer or anyone else, the patrolman was clearly itching for any reason to use his tazer. He needs to be reprimanded and placed back on mandatory probationary staus with a very senior officer until he learns how to do the job he swore to do.

03-13-2008, 12:01 AM	#82
SwedeSteve Thor's Hammer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 12,179 Images: 1	I've watched the video twice, and can only say, you are in the cops hands! Yes sir, no sir, three bags full! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-13-2008, 12:30 AM	#84
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,807 Blog Entries: 24	Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the cops paid him off and sent the officer to a training class, but I believe they're missing an important fact. In our current sue-happy society, there are lawyers standing in line just waiting for a case like this because it's like the bible, ie: open to interpretation unless you were there when it happened. Most P.D's don't have the money to fight a long, drawn-out case without suffering greatly because of it. This way, the guy got his pittance for "pain and suffering" and the P.D. gets to show that they are politically correct by sending the officer to a touchy-feely bunny-hugging class. The only thing that I think the officer was wrong about was being too casual about the stop, but I think he honestly thought that the guy would rightly accept his speeding ticket since he flat-out told the cop that he was driving 68 mph, yet had just drove past a 40 mph sign. After driving trucks both nationally and in Canada for ten years, I can tell you, they don't immediately drop the speed limit from 70 to 40 without ample warning. I was taught in drivers ed. many years ago, that when stopped by an officer, you act calm, be polite, and above all, do not argue with the officer-he's not the one who made the laws but it's his job to enforce them. In todays climate, officers are getting a bit quicker to use non-lethal force to stop what they perceive to be a threat, often with good cause. I'm surprised the guy didn't draw his gun when the guy stuck his hand in his pocket. __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac!

03-13-2008, 04:17 AM	#86
pancolt Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: TEXAS Posts: 4	Leo out of line Acording to the utah highway patrol If you don't sign your ticket they can .1. file it unsignd 2. file it unsignd and add a charge of not signing it 3.Arrest you .And Now I guess, they can without telling Informing you your under arrest, tazer you leve you on the side of the road between two cars where you might get struck by a car. lie to another leo about what happend like (he was jumping all over over here over there . NO he was walking back towards his car. the fact is the officer pulled his taser while under NO threat and while the mans back was turned. The officers intentions were clear before he put his clipbord down .We need to weed out all bad apples like this I respect police I even have one in the familey and know what they put up with this was nothing but a man that thought he was getting an undeservd ticket and the police officer made it more than it had to be. ther is enough blame to go around but the police can't be judge and jury or we might as well hang it up.I would have sign the ticket got the dash cam and took it to court .doneAnd for thouse who wish for the good old days well all I can say is be carefull what you wish for you just might get it.

03-13-2008, 04:01 PM	#96
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 3,720	There are tools that PD's need... some things are paid for by budgets and others are paid for by the public. These are paid by some taxes... but mostly by the criminal offenses i.e. drunk drivers, speeders, robbers, etc. Performance standards are fine... but sometimes (especially in small towns) you do not have the activity to "perform" the way necessary to make that standard. Hence performance = quota. __________________ If anybody asks, it must have been the "trigger actuator nut".....

03-13-2008, 04:18 PM	#98
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 3,720	All excellent choices... I like these: ·"If you shoot me with a .25 ACP and I find out about it, I will personally kick your butt" - Anonymous ·“Be ashamed to die until you have done something good for mankind.” American pastor Dr. Vernon Johnson during the Revolutionary War ·Beer, the cause and solution to all of lifes problems -Homer Simpson ·People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people. ·“Some days I think the only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes." ·Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity. ·A politician will do anything to keep his job -- even become a patriot. ·Keep your head down and your powder dry... ·People are like slinkies, they bring a smile when you push them down stairs. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to “The United States of America” for an amount of “up to and including my life.” __________________ If anybody asks, it must have been the "trigger actuator nut".....

03-13-2008, 02:05 PM	#88
mitch009 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: WA Posts: 133	I agree that the officer jumped on the taser a little too soon and should of tried a more hands on approach with the guy first. But in his defense he told the guy multiple times to sign the ticket and he refused, when he was out of the car he told him multiple times to turn around and place his hands behind his back. This guy then knew he was being arrested and proceeded to turn away from the officer and put his hands in his pockets and walk towards his car. The officer had to deal with another passenger in the car who was becoming hysterical, and the suspect walking back to the car would only infuse the situation even more. He decided he would end it right there with a taser for everyones safety. Seems fine to me

03-13-2008, 03:29 PM	#91
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,931	I'll answear that one troy...It's simple that guy is a low life and should have never been aloud to be a cop.

03-13-2008, 03:53 PM	#93
mdj696 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 291 Images: 1	I pulled a lady over once for speeding and she got real smart with me. She said I sure hope you've met your quota. Quota? I told her I met that a long time ago, with this one I can get the wife a new toaster. She drove away fuming.

03-13-2008, 04:34 PM	#99
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	The internet is a very interesting place, and no one is safe from the sharing of information now these days. A new site that spawned up not too long ago is causing some police and other LEO's to get quite upset. Then again, to use the ancient old argument, if you aren't doing anything wrong in the first place then why get upset? RateMyCop.com

03-13-2008, 06:42 PM	#100
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Strange to me the actions of this Officer, he was without doubt overzealous to the point of stupidity in his actions. Had he been a probationer of mine he'd have found his tail (just like no small number I did fail) have been returned to the training site to learn how to effect a proper traffic stop! The officers first duty was to attempt to de-escalate the situation yet his actions clearly indicate he had absolutely no desire or intention to do so and immediately raised the potential stakes for serious injury both to himself and his (and yeah I am gonna say it) VICTIM! Depending upon where you are the laws differ on whether or not you are required to sign the citation or not, in any event signing the darned thing IS NOT an admission of guilt but simply an agreement that you will respond to the summons to deal with it. The young man tazed was foolish but clearly not a threat to the officer or anyone else, the patrolman was clearly itching for any reason to use his tazer. He needs to be reprimanded and placed back on mandatory probationary staus with a very senior officer until he learns how to do the job he swore to do. __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"