[Todd Bayliss]

I use 124gr +P Gold Dots. They seem to come up as consistently reliable expanders. Ruger P89 feeds them just fine.

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by khahn79

Hi all! Just wanting some opinions on which 9mm round is "best" for self defense? I usually use Winchester 115 gr. target (100 round value box) for my target practice. However, I want to start getting some practice in with my "carry" round. I plan to go with a jacketed hollow point but wondered if there's any "real" difference in the brands and weights? Any opinions?

My suggestions for a self defense round in 9mm would be either Hornady TAP or Federal Hydra-Shok, in the order. To be honest, 115gr, in my opinion, is more of a practice/target round. I suppose you get a 115gr hollow point you'd be alright. But personally, in 9mm, I'd want as much stopping power and or expansion out of the bullet as possible.

[KW Gary M]

Quote:       Originally Posted by GlockMeister

My suggestions for a self defense round in 9mm would be either Hornady TAP or Federal Hydra-Shok, in the order. To be honest, 115gr, in my opinion, is more of a practice/target round. I suppose you get a 115gr hollow point you'd be alright. But personally, in 9mm, I'd want as much stopping power and or expansion out of the bullet as possible.

I love Hornady and always used them as a carry round until a friend who is a Criminal Attorney as well as a gun guy suggested not to. He pointed out that the box says "Accurate, Deadly & Dependable" right on it. Many others say "Personal Protection" on it. He said he would have a much easier time defending you after you shoot some dirtbag attacking you if the procicutor didn't have a box saying "Deadly" to a jury and if he had a box saying "Protection" to show them.

[GlockMeister]

Yea, I know it, but look at it this way, if someone breaks into your home, you're personally defending your home, obviously right?, and if you shoot at them, are you going to shoot to warn, shoot to injure and mame or shoot to kill? Odds are you're going to shoot to kill. So is it really going to matter what it says on the box of ammunition you chose to use for that purpose?

Sure, it could and probably would be argued. But I think it's going to be argued anyways. Why, because it's all about doing or saying whatever will get their client or clients family the most money. Not about right and wrong and that's what's wrong , one of the things anyways, with our system. For me, it doesn't matter or come down to what ammo I used. Because I see it as either way, had the person NOT broken into my home, threatening me and or my family, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, WITH ANY AMMUNITION,PERIOD...

Look at it this way. If you use a 44 magnum revolver as your choice of firearm for home defense, is a jury going to say, you should or could have used a 9mm or .22 instead, and because you didn't, you intended to kill based simply and solely on your choice of firearm for self defense?

Anything can be argued. But, to me using a bullet with a lower velocity or lower energy puts me and or my own at risk. To me using an ammo just because it doesn't say for personal defense on the box shouldn't matter. To me, I wouldn't have had to use any ammunition or the firearm had someone not tried to harm me and or mine, in my own home.

Sure it might be easier for a lawyer to defend me if I chose to use an ammunition that didn't say this or that on the box. I'd argue, I shouldn't have and wouldn't have to be defended at all had the person I was forced to shoot honored my privacy,my property and my rights to begin with and not broken into my home.

Living in Illinois, I can't argue it happening anywhere else as I don't have the right to have a firearm with me anywhere else. I guess at that point, it'll be a lawyer helping my wife see the one doing to crime gets their just punishment. And we all know how well that works out.

Lastly, I'll simply refer you to my signature. lol

[SwedeSteve]

As far as bullet type I use fmj's in winter because of heavy clothing here and shoot hp's in the summer. As far as legallity, find out what your LEO's are issued and shoot the same. No lawyer can touch it !!

[KW Gary M]

Check out the Box-O-Truth website. They show true tests that aren't done by an ammo manufacturer or someone being paid. It is just a few guys doing tests because they like to. Very good info. Bassoneer also did some great tests that he put on the Ammo forum under .40 tests. These are people who aren't being pressured by ammo company's dollars so they are truthfull.

[Taurus Fan]

Some cool pictures:

Bullet results after firing


Here's a page with all the testing:

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/ballistics.html

I'm leaning towards the Federal HST

[S.O.M.D.]

a 147 grain gold sabre has a Muzzle velocity of 990 fps
and Muzzle energy of 320 ft/lb

say your target is wearing body armor of any type...a 9mm lead/brass projectile with 320 pounds of force traveling over 900 feet per second is going to get their attention, no?

you can put two or three shots in their chest or abdomen they are going to have a hard time, unless drugged up or a seasoned soldier.

[Constantine1911]

Quote:       Originally Posted by HEMI

FACT!!A 45 fmj is no where near a good a stopper as a hollow point! 45 fmj 70% a 45 230 gr hp hydra shok 94+%. If my 45 or 9mm wouldn't feed hps I would carry some thing else. I have browning 9mm hi power that will only feed ball ammo that is very accurate ,it will never be carried on the street because fmjs are pathetic when compared to the hollow points.

Unless you can't afford another gun. Then what?

[Enscribe]

Quote:       Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

As far as bullet type I use fmj's in winter because of heavy clothing here

Swede I'm chiming in about three months late but I can get Gold Dot +P to penetrate and expand nicely through a 70's era Ford pickup door. I think this would be harder to peirce than heavy clothing? Maybe the clothes would bind them up but I doubt it. I'll have to try a few layers of old heavy gear to test it out.....

[jerry]

I have not shot any yet, but I like Hornady as a company. They always seem to produce good product. This new line of critical defense in th sub calibers is at least worthy of consideration.
Hornady

[Constantine1911]

Quote:       Originally Posted by S.O.M.D.

a 147 grain gold sabre has a Muzzle velocity of 990 fps and Muzzle energy of 320 ft/lb say your target is wearing body armor of any type...a 9mm lead/brass projectile with 320 pounds of force traveling over 900 feet per second is going to get their attention, no? you can put two or three shots in their chest or abdomen they are going to have a hard time, unless drugged up or a seasoned soldier.

+1

[HEMI]

Federal emfj s expandable full metal jackets. Way better than ball.

[billy]

whatever your local law enforcement agency uses.

[HEMI]

Good advise billy, Detroit pd carries emfj s, they aren't allowed to carry hps?????

[jerry]

Quote:       Originally Posted by billy

whatever your local law enforcement agency uses.

Still have to use what will work properly in your gun and you can shoot. Typical LE's are not all gun nuts, some choices are driven by budget and other factors. Excercise your right to choice.

I'm not arguing with you William, just don't agree about it being a blanket statement.

[billy]

Quote:       Originally Posted by jerry

Still have to use what will work properly in your gun and you can shoot. Typical LE's are not all gun nuts, some choices are driven by budget and other factors. Excercise your right to choice. I'm not arguing with you William, just don't agree about it being a blanket statement.

it just seems like when you are in court explaining why you had to kill somebody.
your choice of ammo would be in your favor.

[jerry]

That would be helpfull possibly, can't deny that. I wouldn't purchase totally on that premise though. Kinda like buying the same tires they use on thier car. If their ammo works, is available, affordable, etc. I'd definitely say go for it.
I doubt it would happen, but I could see a slick lawyer backing someone in a corner accusing them of being a vigilante wanna be cop by "using the same bullets"
Good quality, fresh, not too exotic, factory ammo that works well in the firearm & a person can buy it when they need it should work. If the local badge fodder fit's that description, cool. Just need to be aware that it might not.

Again, not jumping your idea, just need to consider all the optioins. Quite honestly, I probably missed something.

[Montana_Mauser]

Quote:       Originally Posted by nathangdad

Read military history and you will find the 9mm has a long and sad tale of failure to stop an aggessor in combat. Read civilian history and you will find the 9mm has a long history of failure to stop an aggessor in police encounters. It lacks put down power. It especially lacks put down power if the aggressor is on dope. This is why so many police departments experiment with the 9mm then abandon it in favor of the .40 or more especially the .45.

No, no, use a 30-06. It will stop those punks much better than the wimpy .45

Point is, you can't put a 1911 in the pocket of your jeans any more than you can a 30-06.

And a well placed shot will stop an attacker, whether it's a .45 or a 9mm.
In addition, you can't get Black Talon ammo for .45's.
Worried about multiple assailants? For a full sized pistol (like the police-model Berettas, Taruses, or Glocks) you'd need two or three 1911 mags to carry what you can in one 9mm mag.

Finally, the 9mm penetrates body armor better than the .45. So maybe you're not going to run into somebody in body armor everyday, but your not going to run into somebody on PCP everyday.

If you prefer the .45, that's fine, but don't act like a 9mm is as useless for self defense as a pellet gun or a .22.

...and by the way, I've read military history, and never come across an account of the 9mm being inneffective. though I guess not all of us have read every military account ever penned...

[Enscribe]

I have heard a lot of hear say about the 9mm's effecyiveness but I have read a ton and watched a ton of accounts about 5.56 not stopping people. I'd be more worried about that then a pistol bullet.
I too would rather have 15 9mm than 7-10 .45's. I don't think it's as big of an issue with pistol calibers anymore. manufacturers have figured out how to get the max effectiveness in any cartridge. I have a fully expanded 9mm JHP round on my desk thats as big as a quater with jagged petals ready to rip flesh. that's about as good as you could hope for. It is well known that .45 is a better stopper but I haven't heard anything new about it in years. I know our boys in combat prefer to have the .45 over the beretta but how often do you take a pistol to an assualt rifle party? The beretta is also no good in sand with the open exsposed barrel. Whew thats about as long as my rants get.