Hi all! Just wanting some opinions on which 9mm round is "best" for self defense? I usually use Winchester 115 gr. target (100 round value box) for my target practice. However, I want to start getting some practice in with my "carry" round. I plan to go with a jacketed hollow point but wondered if there's any "real" difference in the brands and weights? Any opinions?
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Well behaved women rarely make history!
Khahn, we don't pretend to be experts on this subject, but this is a great link a to Hi Point Forums thread posted by a guy who is an expert. Maybe it will help.
YukonGlocker at MP-Pistol.com did a 9mm wetpack test (shooting bullets into a pile of wet newspaper to test expansion), and came up with these results:
His favorite load was the Winchester Ranger 147gr, followed by the Gold Dot 147 and 124+p.
The Federal Tactical Bonded HST (124+p and 147gr) has also received very very good reviews. I would probably go with either the Winchester Ranger 147gr or Federal HST 147gr, but that's my opinion.
The Remington Golden Saber HPJ wasn't tested in this, but it also has received very good reviews.
I would recommend sticking with the same weight bullet you practice with. You do need to shoot with the hotter loads some though - just to make sure it feeds and shoots to the same place. There is a big difference between brands and bullet construction. Look at the differences in velocity - provided bullet weight and construction are equal - faster is better for the 9mm. I would avoid the 147 grain ammo- speed is what a makes a 9mm effective. Any of the above listed will take care of business.
Read military history and you will find the 9mm has a long and sad tale of failure to stop an aggessor in combat. Read civilian history and you will find the 9mm has a long history of failure to stop an aggessor in police encounters. It lacks put down power. It especially lacks put down power if the aggressor is on dope.
This is why so many police departments experiment with the 9mm then abandon it in favor of the .40 or more especially the .45.
I believe that Khahn and I are comparable in size and I can speak from experience that while a .45 may have more stopping power, all the stopping power in the world isn't going to mean jack if your wrist gives out on you after one or two shots. Ability to control the weapons recoil (limp wristing) resulting in FTE's isn't going to help you much if you are depending on the weapon for personal protection.
Whether we like to admit it or not, not all women are comfortable handling the large caliber hand guns. Our anatomy won't allow us to do the same amount of control that larger male wrists are built to handle. Undoubtedly some are and I really admire the gals who can handle the .45s and .357 rounds on a regular basis. Personally, I have to admit that I'm more comfortable with my .9mm's and am more accurate with them than with any other handgun caliber.
Stick to what you are comfortable and most accurate with. In the end, that is all that is important.
Dear Mr Dad
How many of the named combatants used modern expanding bullet technology?
Answer: none.... some silly business about the Geneva convention. Winners can use daisy cutter bombs, flame throwers and other devastating devices but the grunts can only shoot fmj bullets, pretty nuts huh?
Law enforcement is under no such geneva convention. They want to "stop" the agressor as soon as possible.
I have heard that it isn't good enough to shoot someone till you think that they are dead, you have to shoot them untill they think that they are dead.
I am going by hearsay but I know with the hoodlums that are jacked up on meth or crack it will take a shot to the central nervous system. With the stress to the peace keeper it may take several shots to achive this result.
I thought some of the links mentioned gave a fair assessment. I have a number of 45acp guns and think that they will do the job but the recoil is substantial and not likely that a smaller marksman would get in a second shot within a couple of seconds. One article mentioned that most semiauto handguns gave about the same stopping power using modern expanding bullets, not fmj ammo.
I mostly load fmj and lead bullets because it is cheap. I may even have it in my carry gun but I may not. Best to not to test me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathangdad
Read military history and you will find the 9mm has a long and sad tale of failure to stop an aggessor in combat. Read civilian history and you will find the 9mm has a long history of failure to stop an aggessor in police encounters. It lacks put down power. It especially lacks put down power if the aggressor is on dope.
This is why so many police departments experiment with the 9mm then abandon it in favor of the .40 or more especially the .45.
Stick to what you are comfortable and most accurate with. In the end, that is all that is important.
and there is some good advice right there. the only thing i would add is shoot it.....LOTS. you fall down you right away put out your hands. make the gun like that, a reflex. by the way i have used hydra shoks and ranger sxt's. they are for the most part the same thing and a good choice i would think.
khahn: Many arguments abound with specific bullet for damage intent. Confusing statement.
The design 'defense' rounds is somewhat inaccurate.
Creating a wound channel would be a better description. None of these will blow an arm, leg, off. TV. Shooting directly into the chest tearing wound channels damaging tissue can maybe stop a perpetrator. Underscore MAYBE. FBI, ammunitions makers agree "one shot one kill" a rarity. Shot placement is the key. Direct shots to the heart; perps. have been known to continue on for up to 1 minute. Now consider what kind of damage can happen in 1 minute.
Training has it: Shoot at body mass; correct answer; in a highly charged situation. Stop all arguments with a shot between the eyes.
Each of us need to practice and practice responsibly. Use what you brung: Get to where; without doubt hitting your target.
Practicing at anything gives 'muscle memory' eye to hand; just like typing without looking at the keys. I personally would be more concerned with my shooting partner to be more accurate; as to being concerned with expansion bullets.
My opinions are not to be misconstrued; wound channels are good. They will leave a blood trail. They will leave perp. with problems. Second thoughts in combat? Many a solider with terminal wounding has continued on for many minutes before succumbing to wounds. Premise; dead man has killed many a solider. I don't need to graphically describe blown off limbs, abdomen breach, head wounds to make this point.
Should in our lifetime we have to pull a trigger;
don't be afraid to pull the trigger; training mentally; training responsible; equal practiced preparation.
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Craig
Who refreshes others will be refreshed. Proverbs 11:25
Last edited by neophyte; 12-07-2007 at 05:50 AM.
Reason: solider
Shoot the weapon you are most comfortable with in any of the ammo's listed and practice, practice, practice. It does not matter what bullet you shoot if you don't hit the target.
Shoot the weapon you are most comfortable with in any of the ammo's listed and practice, practice, practice. It does not matter what bullet you shoot if you don't hit the target.
Agreed!
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Well behaved women rarely make history!
The whole talk of the 9mm not being powerful enough is really a bunch of bull. The .45 does expand more, but also comes at a cost of less capacity and greater recoil. A 9mm to the chest is going to drop almost anyone. The rare cases probably would have happened with a .45 as well.
Besides, the question isn't what caliber is best, it's what 9mm round is best.
Get the 124-grain. They are made for law enforcement, and thus are ultra-reliable, and have a low muzzle flash (in case you have to fire in the dark, you won't blind yourself).
The recoil would also be closer to what you practice with.
Thanks for all the ammo suggestions. I'm going to pick up a couple of different brands mentioned here and try them out at the range and see which one makes my gun the happiest.
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Well behaved women rarely make history!
The whole talk of the 9mm not being powerful enough is really a bunch of bull. The .45 does expand more, but also comes at a cost of less capacity and greater recoil. A 9mm to the chest is going to drop almost anyone. The rare cases probably would have happened with a .45 as well.
Besides, the question isn't what caliber is best, it's what 9mm round is best.
Get the 124-grain. They are made for law enforcement, and thus are ultra-reliable, and have a low muzzle flash (in case you have to fire in the dark, you won't blind yourself).
The recoil would also be closer to what you practice with.
Thanks for the information, Bravo. The price is a little steep but might be worth it in the long run just to keep a box on hand for personal protection.
What does anyone think about using a 9mm 115gr hollowpoint bullet for personal protection?
I like the Aguila ICQ ammo for carry...Here is a link where it was tested ...65 gr. bullet at 1500 fps.
What do you know about Aguila 9mm ammo
Rich
I would Load 115 grain FMJ first in the Magazine and the last 3 -65 gr. Aguila so they shoot first for personal protection, FMJ bullets in case a vehicle or penetration is needed.
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
Man, there is a lot of BS here. Most people have an aversion to getting shot! We are not in combat - the criminals don't have orders to defend the alley at all cost - they are going to split when the tables turn and things get hot. Lets stay in the real world with these discussions. BTW, the 9mm is not my pet round - I use .40 S&W, but that doesn't make it a bad choice.
Hi all! Just wanting some opinions on which 9mm round is "best" for self defense? I usually use Winchester 115 gr. target (100 round value box) for my target practice. However, I want to start getting some practice in with my "carry" round. I plan to go with a jacketed hollow point but wondered if there's any "real" difference in the brands and weights? Any opinions?
For plinking and range fun, 115gr is fine. For self defense where you want to stop the BG, penetration is #1. And for penetration you need heavy bullets. Stick with 124gr - 147gr loads.
I will second the Gold Dot 147 and 124+p Bravo mentioned.
nathangdad mentions military history with the 9mm... problem there is that those are FMJ rounds and not truly meant to stop an aggressor. As anything military, it is FMJ to punch through things, not necessarily kill. The idea there is to tie up your enemy with injuried casualties, not dead ones.
knightRider suggests Hydra Shock 9mm rounds... those are another excellent choice along with the Gold Dot.
What is needed is expansion, not over-penetration ... ala FMJ. A 9mm of appropriate velocity to penetrate whatever the aggressor is wearing and one that will expand fast enough to not exit said aggressor is what you need. Stay away from FMJ (ball) ammo and you should be fine.
As a SEAL I once knew stated... it really doesn't matter what caliber you use on an aggressor if you shoot them twice in the chest and once in the head.
It's all subjective... make your choice and live with it.
Which 9mm round for self defense? 
Second thoughts in combat? Many a solider with terminal wounding has continued on for many minutes before succumbing to wounds. Premise; dead man has killed many a solider. I don't need to graphically describe blown off limbs, abdomen breach, head wounds to make this point.
