[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Hey... I'm a man in uniform and certainly NOT brainwashed. Brainwashed? My ass. I'll tell all of you right now... no fu***ng way... will I shoot another American. Orders or not... no way. Orders need to be lawful for them to be carried out... and frankly, I cannot see any order to shoot American citizens as lawful. I've defied unlawful orders before and I'll do it again in a heartbeat. Count me in on your side Seabeescotty and mym1a...

I'd back your play larryO

[LarryO1970]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

I'd back your play larryO

You too brother...

[GDawg]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

GDawg ... those people you are referring to are in the minute minority. It is being made out that most in the military are this way. There... is where the facts are wrong. Believe what you want... I know what I see because I work with these people daily. You may be able to come up with about a dozen articles... doubtful it will be that many but in reality... what is the percentage of what you find vs. the sheer amounts of people in the Armed Forces? There's your answer.

Some of you are taking major offense that I bring this up. Just because some are unstable doesn't mean I'm pointing a finger at you. You need to look at the big picture that it doesn't take all to be a force of power in the wrong hands. Don't take offense, just know that there are those that will kill Americans or anyone if given reason. I hope you good soldiers are there if the shit hits the fan. Just don't think a person if a civilian is just a civilian. Most of us are soldiers for life.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Training is what the Army does. Its training has several applications. I am positive that if there was ever martial law and the military was set in place to keep order the possibility to fire upon the US public IS likely. Self preservation is key to any person. You take some armed young men versus some angry good ol boys pissed about this or that and I guarantee that something is gonna happen.

[jerry]

I'm not going to get sucked up into a loosing battle of wits. It is a sad fact that the military is aware of some gang related issues. It is being addressed from the top down. This may explain the Ft. Carson scenerio (if true) I don't have time to look it up.

That said, as a whole the American military is made up of a vast sampling of the United States, your brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins. At the end of the day, they are us, we are them.

This is one of those futile issues best put to bed.

[TXplt]

I retired after 20 years in the U. S. Air Force. When I was sworn in, it was to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. My colleagues were sworn to the same constitution as me. This swears us to the constitution, not to civil insurrection or one particular individual or agency. This is a strength of our military. There is no way I would have carried out an act that was unconstitutional; additionally, we were specifically bound NOT TO carry out an illegal order. Were we to do so, we could and would have been held accountable. The scenario depicted in the link would not have happened in any scenario under my watch.

Would we ever have targeted American Citizens -- possibly. If an organized group were illegally attempting to overrun an installation and gain control of weapons then the answer would be yes. (Actually, I think that this is how the civil war started). If a group of citizens were attempting to poison a cities' water supply then possibly. We would defend against that domestic enemy. But this is a wholly different situation.

I can't think of anyone I've ever worked with who would attempt to round up and disarm or target American Citizens. This is simply a violation of the constitution. I don't think we would have stood with or for someone who was asking us to do this. We weren't brainwashed in any way.

[mym1a]

when it comes to the military I think most news media are always going to focus on what ever negativety they can come up with! regardless of the validity of it!!

[GDawg]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

when it comes to the military I think most news media are always going to focus on what ever negativety they can come up with! regardless of the validity of it!!

So you're saying when a GI commits a crime it's just the media putting a spin on it?

Did you not read the article I posted? It's true and REAL.

[Seabeescotty]

Are you saying the entire military is bad because of one incident? That they will commit mayhem on their countrymen, because of one incident? That must mean that we'll all commit murder because of one incident! Sorry, it does not compute!

[Midas]

I doubt that most U.S. troops would shoot ordinary citizens. They are in no way "brainwashed"

[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by GDawg

So you're saying when a GI commits a crime it's just the media putting a spin on it? Did you not read the article I posted? It's true and REAL.

no but what im saying is that when it does happen they,the media generaly make an issue out of it as if it was an epidemic.generaly the news media don't like the military thats evident by the way they report.how many times have the news elluded to the military as being stupid and unable to function in the civilian world do to a lack of education?? you never heard the media put their spin on the military,only those who can't find jobs join the military? only minorities join the military???

[Seabeescotty]

Thank you , Midas, I think I'll shy away, before I say .................................

[GDawg]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

Are you saying the entire military is bad because of one incident? That they will commit mayhem on their countrymen, because of one incident? That must mean that we'll all commit murder because of one incident! Sorry, it does not compute!

No.... not at all. But it seems that you are bent on making it seem like I am saying that.

I thought this wasn't a one sided forum with only one view.

I think you are very offended that ANY troop could be bad... ONE indicident? I don't think so but I'm not about to print links to ALL of them so you can spin it more that I'm against you and your pride. I'm sure it doesn't compute with you cause you have a very sensitive, closed mind to what happens everyday in real life. I'm sure you are a FINE individual... But don't twist my words to pump yourself up. I'm been a military man for 50 years so I know as much as you I'm sure.

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

no but what im saying is that when it does happen they,the media generaly make an issue out of it as if it was an epidemic.generaly the news media don't like the military thats prety evident by the way they report.

Depends on who you listen to. Military is no more moral than the rest of the nation.

[Reddbecca]

As many casualties as our troops are taking in the middle east, the fighting force of the army if martial law is ever declared, is going to be very poor.

[mym1a]

gdawg yeah depends who you listen to

reddbecca I don't even no what your trying to say?


oh and by the way for the record, our troops are the most educated and well trained people ever!!! and usualy out perform their civilian counter parts when they do leave the service and enter the civilian work force!!! thats my humble opinion

[Seabeescotty]

I'm not trying to get personal! Actually, I have been trying very hard to be objective about this! I haven't said anything that should be taken to heart, that would anger anyone, but to think that any of my generation would blindly follow orders against fellow countrymen is beyond my conception! And I know how my children and THEIR peers think, and it would be impossible for THEM to commit such an atrocity! My oldest son came home one time, and told me that they had been asked this very question, and said that the room went into an uproar. The main statement was that they had volunteered to defend their country, not take it over. That is why I feel and talk the way I do, because I have faith in the system to get rid of bad blood. And most of the time it works!

[two-70]

I'm with Scotty and Larry 0 on this one

[mym1a]

I got some friends who served in vietnam there about 5 years older then me even at their ages they would be very up set to hear some of the allegations in here.

[Seabeescotty]

Thanks Windwalker, I'm trying to be polite and honest and objective. And I'm not trying to force anything, but darn it, I got treated pretty shabby when I came home from the Nam, and this feels like my kids are starting to catch backlash, and it upsets me.Mym1a, I was typing this when your post came up, and as you can see, I'm getting there!

[Cyrille]

Back in the last century there was a book and a movie made from that book titled "Seven Days in May." The story delt with an attempted military coup by some high ranking U.S. military officers. But it was foiled by the "good guys" another group of military officers who held true to their oath to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States!"
I believe that despite the microcosism of New Orleans, that the vast majority of our military will remain true to their oath to our Constitution. Their allengence is to the United States of America and to the institutions in place to serve the citizens of this country not to a person.