[PistolCity]

I personaly wish I would have taken a interst in the Military at a younger age. So that I could serve my country today. But thats not the path my life took. I'll suport any solider in damn near every situation. I think the most evil thing in the world today is the media. I wasnt alive during Nam, so I cant speak about what I dont know. But it seems that the media had a large influence over everything that took place over there and once our hereo's got home. And to me it feels like it is once again taking place.
Now do I think a something like this could happen yes, especially like some say and they take the 2nd admendment out of our consititution. However, even if that situation was to occur how many of these soliders would also have to give up their own private collection. Or know that great grand pappys beloved .30-.06 was going to be destroyed and it was to be theirs next in line. I think a large part of the military would stand and fight for what they beleive is right. Even if that means standing with their daddy over their country. It would cos a civial war no doubt about it. And how will we handle it I dont know not for myself. But this is a SHTF type of thread and I dont blame some for wondering or thinking about the worst case scenero.

I want to relierate that I support all US Soliders past and present. And not a day has gone by since 9/11 that I wish I didnt get that damn tattoo on the back of my head.

Id also like to ask a favor of any Military man that think they can help me. I have a friend, a brother. I always said that if I had a son Id want him to be his God Father. And I nor any of the old click have heard a word from him in probably 5 years. Roughly 7 years ago he joined the Air Force, and I know he's been sent to Iraq at least twice. We had talked about it the last time I talked to him. You hear rumors from time to time and if half of those are true the SDidHTF. Can anyone help me find out if he is alive?

[Seabeescotty]

Thank you, Cyrille, we have to have faith in SOMETHING! I served with a few who were less than desirable, but with many who would take exception to the mere notion that American troops would follow illegal orders to subjugate their fellow citizens. That was all I was trying to get across!!!

[jd1911]

as a U.S. SOLDIER i can honestly say i have never recieved that training and furthermore i swore to defend america against all threats foreign and domestic and terrorists come in all shape in sizes and ill leave it at that and if martial law ever came in to effect and if i recieved a order to find firearms or imprison lawful american citzens simple i couldnt find any firearms and only saw lawful american citzens

[snuffysmith]

Just to give you a bit of history. On July 28, 1932, in Washington D.C.; Federal troops attacked some 20 thousand veterans of ww1(and their families) to clear them out of the area around the White house.
The Bonus Army riots were a result of ww1 vets. wanting the government to pay up early on bonds they had been given. Without going into a lot of background, Pres. Hoover thought they were a threat to public safety and ordered them cleared out.
McArthur, Eisenhower and Patton took part in the action of pushing the veterans out of downtown D.C. using tanks, tear gas, bayonets, sabres, troops on horseback and police from D.C..
At least two vets. were killed and two babies were suffocated on the tear gas. Google the WWI bonus army riots, interesting reading.

Lets not forget about Kent State also,when was that? 1964? It could happen, guys. All it would take is one ambitious officer for things to start to go bad fast.
I don't think the majority of our boys would fire on Americans but I think some would follow orders just like they did against their fellow soldiers back in 1932.
I seem to remember that many of the 20K vets. had served under the afor mentioned officers that ran them off and burned their camp down.

Snuffy

[CalifgirlinOk]

If I stay on this thread I'm going to say something that I shouldnt so I'm

[Windwalker]

I do believe our politicians would declare Martial Law to enhance their own agenda. I do not trust our politicians. If this happened I believe that about 80% of the Military would refuse to fire on American Citizens. Possible even a higher percentage. As an x-soldier I know that most of the military serve with honor in defense of our Country and our Constitution. Unfortunately most of our politicians have no honor.

[LarryO1970]

Yeah .... I'm done with this post too. I've made my statement... whether someone wants to believe or not is his or her own business.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... "the bad apples are weeded out by the NCO's." If people have no faith in their military because of a few of these bad apples, they are lost anyway. If one mass murderer comes out of New Mexico, does that mean all people out of New Mexico are mass murderers? That is as silly a logic as the initial argument here.

I'm with you seabeescotty and mym1a.

[Rave]

OK. I believe that most of our troops would not fire on our citizens,but with the sorry leaders that we have there won't be any problem to find enough that will,remember Waco.
Once it hits the fan and the fighting starts and some of our better troops become casualties most will reluctantly join in and it will be a blood bath.
Our leaders and their cohorts(our enemies) will be pleased and our country will then be in a weakened condition and open for real invasion.
In the end we will have done ourselves in and have no one to blame but ourselves,although most will never admit it,for allowing this situation to get so out of hand.
Two weeks ago our president said the economy was strong,robust,suddenly it leaked out that Maryl Lycch and Citicorp were selling to foreigners because they could'nt get enough money here to stay afloat,then Bush said we have a crisis and need a temporary tax cut,"It must be temporary."
Yesterday he said the cut must be permanent.
Such a load of crap.
Our leaders will say or do anything to get or remain in power.
By the way,when I was in the service there was not a hint of that "brain washing",but then My tour was in1962-1966,a long time ago in a galaxiy far,far,away!
IT'S ELECTION TIME! BELLY UP TO THE BAR,IT'S TIME FOR THE BIG SELL-OUT TO COMMENCE!

[LarryO1970]

"Our leaders will say or do anything to get or remain in power."

... you are correct here, thankfully there are more level heads in the military who would not follow or fall for such foolishness.

People need to remember...the military is for the people of the USA, not the Govt. The Govt. needs to remember that they are "of the people, by the people, for the people" ... apparently, the Govt. has forgotten this fact.

[ezearln]

Pistolcity go to Military.com they have a find a buddy service on there (free) all you need is his full name and branch of service they also have a way that you can post messages to him and the community there as well to request help locating him good luck!

IMHO there are few scenarios I can envision that would permit the large scale imposition of True Martial Law, which would be the only way the Military could lawfully confiscate firearms. In most any other situation any NCO worth his stripes would refuse the order as unlawful and forbid those under his command to follow such an order. Additionally if you think an officer could bully an NCO into compliance with such an order just ask any Officer, who really ran his unit the Commanding Officer or the Master Chief/Sergeant Major??

[LarryO1970]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ezearln

Pistolcity go to Military.com they have a find a buddy service on there (free) all you need is his full name and branch of service they also have a way that you can post messages to him and the community there as well to request help locating him good luck! IMHO there are few scenarios I can envision that would permit the large scale imposition of True Martial Law, which would be the only way the Military could lawfully confiscate firearms. In most any other situation any NCO worth his stripes would refuse the order as unlawful and forbid those under his command to follow such an order. Additionally if you think an officer could bully an NCO into compliance with such an order just ask any Officer, who really ran his unit the Commanding Officer or the Master Chief/Sergeant Major??

... I'm not sure I could have said that any better... although, I did try.

[.22hustler]

I think brain-washed" is not the correct term. The military starts taking recruits at an early age as it's easier to train younger recruits who haven't had a full mouthful of life, versus a 30 or 40 year old who is a little smarter. It's easier to mold a soldier with fresh clay than it is to use a fired piece. And I mean NO DISRESPECT to ANYONE in uniform. I come from a military family, from grandpa's fighting in the First WW, daddy's in combat in the jungles of Burma in the Second WW, uncles on Mindanoa and New Guinea, and in the Philipines,uncles freezing in Korea during the Korean Conflict, brother in law at the seige Of Khe Sanh, father in law serving as a Special Forces Combat Medic with two tours of Viet Nam, as well as my two years of active duty oversea's. And the one poster was right, an order has to be legally given in order to follow it. I was once given a order from my battery commander to shoot on site a certain individual if he came into the orderly room while I was on CQ. He was wanted for armed robbery and threatened to kill the victim.The truth of the matter was he was a friend of mine, and I knew of the incident. The battery commander had his facts all wrong and I wasn't about to trigger this guy.Turns out this guy turned himself into the MP's and I had the dubious assignment of guarding him and taking him to the mess halls for meals. And do you think this captain would have stood up for me if I did shoot this guy??? Not.

[LarryO1970]

When I was in Saudi, our Captain gave orders to shoot anyone coming through the hole in the perimeter made from the VBIED. I happened to be the senior ranking person at the site at that time and told the guys with me to NOT FOLLOW THAT ORDER. Soon thereafter, the Colonel came by to check on people and we told him of the incident. The Colonel tracked down the Captain, disarmed him and he was later discharged... which I believe was through a court martial proceeding.

At the time I was an E4... not even an NCO. Now, I am an E6 and I will do it again IF I am given an unlawful order. Even in self defense... I would instruct my guys take cover and use diplomacy with an American Citizen... rather than shoot them. I WILL NOT turn my gun on any American, period. I see that as an unlawful order... we are NOT the police.

To the arguers here... IF it was Martial Law (which I doubt will ever happen in the scope you believe in) ... and we were the made the cops by those in Washington, I still would instruct the same response.

If it means that myself and my team would be court martialed for not following that order, than so be it.

[Windwalker]

I'm going with Jerry on this one. I think we should put it to bed. Lets talk about guns.

[Seabeescotty]

Hey Windwalker, I got my barrel-polisher set up, and it works like a charm! I bought the arbor from Brownell's, the electric motor from a poultry supply, and used some old anle iron to build the frame. Then I bolted it to the big workbench, and it runs smooth as silk!! I'm gonna get back on that old 30-40 now, and finish the job.

[stalebiscuit]

no no, and double no

and the fact of the matter is if it ever does get that bad (dont think it will) then the government ordering them to do so and the ones who actually carry it out, no longer support me or protect me, so i feel like i would hold no obligation to protect their freedoms either

i dont think most military people are going to want to go into a neighborhood like their own and shoot at people who remind them of their family and friends

[Seabeescotty]

Anyone who would try this, after the dust settled, would most likely be tried for high treason. I know we have a lot of elitists elected to office who think they're smarter than we are, and think they know what's best, but they're also smart enough to realize it would backfire on on them like an atom bomb. There's a lot of sheep in today's society, but there's also alot of old veterans out there who gave all they were asked for this country, and they(we) will not stand for it!!

[ArkansasHunter]

This has been a pretty good read to say the least. It is very thought provoking.

This day and time I wouldn't be surprised what could happen in America today, being at home and watching T.V. often I've seen several shows before 911 where the U.S.
army was training for urban warfare.

My reaction to seeing these shows pissed me off because at the time I thought there doing that to use against us the citicens of this country someday.

Now wether or not that could happen I want to beleive it wouldn't, but if I were told to surrender my guns though I wouldn't never raise a gun against the Army but I would resist.

[LarryO1970]

seabeescotty ... most politicians in office right now need to be tried for high treason. Veterans like us will stand up to fight again, when needed. This is a fact that I feel is lost by those who feel "they know better than us".

Personally, I would start with Klinton, Murtha (even though a Marine Vet), Kerry, Kennedy, etc.

Such fools...

[Seabeescotty]

Yep, that's a big 10-4! A.H., we were training for urban warfare back when I was on active duty. We were being trained to respond to any threat that might come up. We just weren't very good at it. We were also being trained to fight in the mountains, and deserts. It was good training, just not good enough. Now they know what we're up against, and the training is excellent, from what my oldest son has told me. They have towns set up on both coasts to train units before they ship out. Even experienced units go back and train! It's helping to keep our kids safer!