[GlockMeister]

I was replying to another post when this thought came to me.

Although I believe most Americans would refuse to cause or bring harm to other Americans in the process to take our firearms if it came down to it, but, I do believe many would at first follow the order to take them if it was given.

The original post simply pointed out an article about individuals (I won't use the troop word because those that take their oath seriously, they will remember, as I did and as it was pointed out, they are sworn to protect this country and it's constitution from not only foreign but DOMESTIC attacks) being trained to take our firearms in the EVENT, that "MARTIAL LAW IS ENACTED".

My thought is this, most at first will obey and follow the order or command to do so. It is in a soldiers nature to follow orders is it not? But, once physically engaged in this order or command, if one were to "RESIST", they wouldn't just say oh, wait a minute, this guys an American, I won't or can't do this, well some might. But, they are automatically going to protect themselves, as trained to do.I have no problem with the military and would never say anything bad about it or anyone serving past,present or future.
My father was a veteran of WWII, God rest his soul. My Uncle Larry, whom because of the War, I never had the pleasure to even meet, because he was killed in WWII, God rest his soul also. I had a cousin, now deceased, God Rest his souls also, who served in the Navy. I have a son, who's mother never let me be the/a father to him, that I saw last time at the age of 1 and 1/2 years, who is now 19 ,finally search me out and I finally got to talk and meet him, who I came to find is also now in the military. TRUST ME, I LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND WOULD NEVER KNOWINGLY OR WILLINGLY SAY ANYTHING AGAINST EITHER. I have the above specified reasons to never ever do that.

BUT, I will say I'm slowly trusting our Government less and less. As the original intent of this post was to inform that there is some individuals possibly being trained to do so.

Look, I believe we can all agree there are people, in this country, and in other countries and the U.N., that feel Americans shouldn't be allowed to own any firearm if only some firearms. I think we can all also agree that they are attempting to do what they can to find out who owns what, limit what we can own, create bans etc.etc.etc... that in order to do it, if it ever came to pass, that they will more then likely have to physically take them from us.

I think we can all also agree that if it came down to it, in order to take our firearms from us, they and us both know there would be a fight, battle, civil war at the very least. Then we would all also have to believe that it is possible they would prepare for just that scenario.

Are they not actually doing this very thing in Iraq, going door to door and taking firearms. In Iraq, each man of age in a house hold are allowed to own 1 firearm. Anymore then that they take it/them from them. If you've watched the news or the military channel when they have the Combat Zone shows, they sometimes in certain episodes, are doing just that. Yes, I know, mostly they are looking for caches of weapons. Hey wait, don't many or most Americans have what they'd consider caches of weapons? Yes, but my point is this. They are getting the best training they can get, doing just this scenario in Iraq. And in searching for these caches, if they come across a house hold that has only one man in it but he has 4 guns, they take all but one, and they can even take the last one simply by just by saying he was suspicious or he was on a watch list or he was helping insurgents. They can do the same thing to us here, if and when it comes down to it. They could say, he is mentally defective and it would be up to that individual to prove they're not. But in the meantime, they will take them and they may never get them back, or get them back damaged, broken who knows. The odds are they won't ever see them again.

A POINT TO CONSIDER IS THAT THEY ARE DOING THIS VERY THING IN IRAQ!!!!! THE PERFECT TRAINING GROUND!

I truly believe that if it came down to it, those that are told, would follow orders as they are trained to. As I said earlier, if in the process, one resists, they will use force. To follow the order and to protect themselves. In the process, does anyone think, someone won;t or couldn't get killed resisting?

Let's try it this way. We all know they are trying to limit us if they can't take them all from us. We all know, they've done it to the people in Australia, they've limited them there. In where, London, Britain wherever else, they took them away from the people like some want done here. Some here want it to be here like it is in Europe. If you want that, just move there right? So if they get there way, they know that they will have to take them by force. Who does anyone think will do this? The police, they don't usually have enough on duty to cover the city they are in. So it will probably be the national guard or the military. At first, yes, they will only be following orders.

Some of you saw the America the Beautiful post I started. Seabee, Midas,Neophyte, and two-70 to name a few. I did that because I felt and feel the same way it made you all feel, anyone else that may see it, or anyone I didn't mention that has seen it. It touched me and touches me every time I watch and listen to it as well and it always will until the day I die. Whether it be of old age, or because I stood up for my rights and they are now prying my gun from my dead cold hand! I won't go looking for trouble, but I also won't run when it comes knocking on my door either. And they know most gun owning Americans feel this same way.
But just because I don't put anything past our Government or because I have concern that something like is being discussed here, or that it isn't impossible, DOES NOT mean I have lost that feeling, the same feeling you have or that I don't like the military or that I'd say something bad about this country or the military.

I try to always keep an open mind. People kill people in this country every day for no apparent good reason. To think one wouldn't do it following an order to me, would be foolish. I'm not saying it will be our troops, they probably found most said no and/or refused. But, do you think that would stop them? That they wouldn't bring an outside force in to do it? Or try? I think based on the U.N.s standing on the issue alone, that they'd offer to do it and that also concerns me.

PLEASE, DO NOT THINK FOR A SECOND I DO NOT FEEL HOW YOU DO, ABOUT ANY OF IT. THE MILITARY OR THIS COUNTRY JUST BECAUSE I DIDN'T SERVE. BUT I CAN STILL FEEL HOW I DO ON THIS AT THE SAME TIME, SIMPLY OUT OF CAUTION WITHOUT IT INTERFERING IN THE OTHER.

I TRULY HOPE, THIS NEVER HAPPENS, THAT THEY NEVER GET TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION OR THE 2ND AMENDMENT TO EVEN BEGIN TO STRIP US OF OUR RIGHTS TO OWN GUNS OR ANY OTHER FREEDOM WE HAVE. I TRULY HOPE, THAT ANY OF IT, EVER BECOMES AN ISSUE. BUT I HAVE TO THINK THE POSSIBILITY IS THERE FOR THEM TO TRY, BECAUSE SOME WANT AND ARE TRYING TO DO JUST THAT. SO IF THEY ARE, THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT AND WHO TO HAVE DO IT.

PLEASE, FORGIVE ME AS I APOLOGIZE IF I MADE ANYONE THINK DIFFERENT THEN I HAVE JUST SAID I FEEL. I NEVER MEANT ANY DISRESPECT TO ANYONE. I'M ONLY HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH OTHER AMERICANS ABOUT SIMILAR THINGS IN COMMON AND IN THIS CASE, SOMETHING THAT WE ALL LOVE, GUNS, AND LOVE TO DO, SHOOT!

G-Meister

[LarryO1970]

With all due respect... this is going to be short: I disagree.


We are all entitled to our opinions and that one is mine.

[Seabeescotty]

I have always felt that the UN would like nothing more than to bring troops into this country and disarm us upstarts. They would have their work cut out for them if they ever tried. Do you think for a minute that our military leaders would stand by and allow an invasion of their country? And personally, foreign uniforms on American soil means open season. I will not tolerate foreign soldiers in my country bearing arms against fellow Americans!

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

With all due respect... this is going to be short: I disagree. We are all entitled to our opinions and that one is mine.

What, you disagree with my apology? Or that I meant it? Sorry you feel that way, and you're right, you have a right to that opinion.

G-Meister

[LarryO1970]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

I have always felt that the UN would like nothing more than to bring troops into this country and disarm us upstarts. They would have their work cut out for them if they ever tried. Do you think for a minute that our military leaders would stand by and allow an invasion of their country? And personally, foreign uniforms on American soil means open season. I will not tolerate foreign soldiers in my country bearing arms against fellow Americans!

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder to repel borders with you seabeescotty ...

I'll aim clearly for the pale blue helmets...

Quote:       Originally Posted by GlockMeister

What, you disagree with my apology? Or that I meant it? Sorry you feel that way, and you're right, you have a right to that opinion. G-Meister

I disagree with this comment, " My thought is this, most at first will obey and follow the order or command to do so."

Frankly, I think most would disobey the order.

[mym1a]

thats what happens when you raise people dependant on the government our schools are breeding grounds for left wing idelogy. I was watching the news the other night over 40 percent of the young people in Britton think winston churchill was nothing more then a cartoon??? our kids don't know much about their history either! so It comes to no suprise to me that we have so many that are left leaning with out ever considering the seriousness of their actions!!!!and the politicians play right into their ignorance!!!!!!!!!

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

I have always felt that the UN would like nothing more than to bring troops into this country and disarm us upstarts. They would have their work cut out for them if they ever tried. Do you think for a minute that our military leaders would stand by and allow an invasion of their country? And personally, foreign uniforms on American soil means open season. I will not tolerate foreign soldiers in my country bearing arms against fellow Americans!

That was why I put the "OR TRY" in the statement in regards to foreign forces. I also believe it will never happen, but I won;t put it past anyone to think about it.

Trust me SEABEE, I feel how you do. I truly do. But I can still have concern that there are individuals that would try. Not only try to take our firearms, but try to get whomever they could to do it. People with tons of moneys tend to think they also have power. They also tend to have or know people in high places. This country is not immune to treason.

G-Meister

[LarryO1970]

Look at the power of a single firearm? WWI was started by a man with a pistol. I think he was a relatively poor person by standards too. Talk about the power of a single shot...

The people in "charge" in this country obviously have a high regard of themselves... and think less of the citizens and military. Boy... are they mistaken.


Their actions or inactions will lead to their demise. They'd better be correct, they only have the one chance. Elections are funny like that.

[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Look at the power of a single firearm? WWI was started by a man with a pistol. I think he was a relatively poor person by standards too. Talk about the power of a single shot... The people in "charge" in this country obviously have a high regard of themselves... and think less of the citizens and military. Boy... are they mistaken. Their actions or inactions will lead to their demise. They'd better be correct, they only have the one chance. Elections are funny like that.

this my sound crazy larryO but what if our military was so tied up on foreign soil
that the bulk of our military was over seas?when our prostitues try some gun grab using an out side foreign force to allegedly bring peace and stability to the area???

[LarryO1970]

You speak of our "uniformed" military overseas.

Minutemen wore what they had on to answer the call. You, me and everyone else who is a citizen are a part of the American Military. What was the number, 85 million households (?) have at least one gun... I think that would make up for "uniformed" soldiers possibly being abroad.

Anyone (U.N.) with that kind of nefarious intent would be in an instant world of shit.

[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

You speak of our "uniformed" military overseas. Minutemen wore what they had on to answer the call. You, me and everyone else who is a citizen are a part of the American Military. What was the number, 85 million households (?) have at least one gun... I think that would make up for "uniformed" soldiers possibly being abroad. Anyone (U.N.) with that kind of nefarious intent would be in an instant world of shit.

I agree larryO but wouldn't that be a good time to try a stunt like this?

[LarryO1970]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

I agree larryO but wouldn't that be a good time to try a stunt like this?

I wouldn't think anytime would be good to pull off a stunt like this...

There still are what, at the very least.. 85 million guns out there? That's more than the military has.

It does have merit though... might work out for them in terms of number opposing them, but I still think it would be suicidal on their part.

[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

I wouldn't think anytime would be good to pull off a stunt like this... There still are what, at the very least.. 85 million guns out there? That's more than the military has. It does have merit though... might work out for them in terms of number opposing them, but I still think it would be suicidal on their part.

need a muster

[GlockMeister]

LarryO, you don't know me, you have every right to disagree with me and I'm in no way a lefty extremist, if that's what anyone thinks or is insinuating. But I have every right to also disagree and feel as I do. I have every right to consider a WORST CASE SCENARIO. Hell, people have made millions making movies about this very thing, worst case scenarios. Some, were I'm sure based on real actual events.

But LarryO, Please tell me this, What is the penalty for a soldier that refuses to follow an order? And if the someone doesn't follow that order, do they stop there and say, well he wouldn't do it, so we've decided we just not going to pursue it or worry about it anymore? I'll let you answer all involved if a soldier doesn't follow an order in the military. And please, base that order on this worst case scenario type order being given and talked about in this topic, and explain not only what all will happen to them, but how they proceed not only with that refusal and that soldier or soldiers, but how they proceed in getting the order followed.

And until you do I'll only say, that they'll probably go to the next in line or command and then give that same order to that person. Is that not correct?

And I'll also ask you this, you say a soldier would never bring harm to another American? Has a soldier ever arrested another soldier? We both know that answer is yes. Ok, now let's hypothetically say that this soldier, is cornered and has a gun. And won't come out. And as they proceeded to move in, he fires a shot, just to scare them or let them know he's armed. Wouldn't they then probably be given the order to take them with any force necessary? Is that not correct?

So now let's put it in this, hypothetical situation. God forbid, but let's say a law has been passed that Americans can now only own handguns. No more then say 1 10 round magazine with it or 1 revolver, no more then a 6-shot capacity and that no American can have say, more then 200 rounds of ammo at any given time.

Now, gun owning Americans are now told to bring what is now illegal to own to their local P.D.. or let's say they have some special locations set up. Now we both know, some will. We also both know most won't. So what do they do to get them to follow and obey this new law? We both have to agree that most police forces are understaffed as it is, so they may try or have some try but in the end, they'll need a special what, "task force"? Let's say they ask the military for ASSISTANCE. And in the process of assisting, the soldiers are given ORDERS to HELP DISARM the Americans that have refused to follow this new law.

Now let's use you, the one with a military back ground but, let's say they are coming to your house LarryO. Let's say you won't go down without a fight. Like most say here or elsewhere. From the beginning, you nor they want to kill another Americans. You just want to stand up for what you believe, and they are just following orders, again, as a soldier is trained to do.

But as they proceed to ask you, with no results to come out freely, that they now see they'll have to bombard your home with teargas or other non-harmful weapons, and they do just that, and that you are one of those prepared Americans and nothing has affected you. Let's say they (soldiers) thought the tear gas worked and proceed to move in. In doing so you let them know you aren't done yet by say firing into the air or at their feet, anywhere you know that won't kill one of them. Are they now not going to shoot back? Are they now not going to be given the order to use whatever force necessary to get you to submit?

LarryO, Americans kill Americans every day in this country. Some for no more then $20 bucks, so they can buy crack. Some for the car you drive. Others because they simply want to get even with a person. Still others, because they just don't care. Every day this already happens.

Wasn't there a story very recently where a soldier raped another soldier (that is causing harm to another American) and then they also KIDNAPPED AND KILLED that same American and soldier (again, isn't that the worst case scenario in causing harm to another American)? Didn't that soldier not take the same oath as you or any other soldier? And yes, that is one out of how many? But out of how many are there. There will always be someone that will follow any order given, without question. The gung hos'.

Also this country is NOT immune to treason and self righteousness. Money can buy you power. Our elections, that democratic process we live by, where usually the one with the most money gets elected.

Let's face it, if anything ever gets to the point, that our own military is needed to disarm Americans or Assist in any civil disorder, this country is already then most likely, in a civil war. A worst case scenario.

l, and that's if you'd let me, and I get the impression you wouldn't, would stand shoulder to shoulder with you LarryO. As I said though, I get the impression you wouldn't simply because I think different then you, because I wasn't in the military and because I've expressed what I have.

Wars are started over less. Cain killed Abel over jealousy. People commit genocide simply because people are different then they are.

G-Meister

[Wingwiper]

Gentlemen,

The word Revolution has been being used for over 40 years and even the Beatles sang of the upcoming revolution.

1. I do not believe that an American soldier would fire on a fellow decent American.

2. I do think that knocking on doors and grabbing guns is a different story and do beleive if so ordered to do, the American Military would indeed do it. The ATF has no problem doing it, either does the Police Depts so why would the American soldier?

3. the problem is MUTINY when more than two soldiers Unite and disagree with a LAWFUL ORDER and that ORDER could be made LAWFUL. To be able to get soldiers to disagree and turn agaisnt the rest of the force would be nothing less than a miracle. We need to look at Ruby Ridge and how a family was destroyed over a 1/4" of length of a shotgun. We need to look at Waco and see how 80 people, including women and children were killed after a long stand off. Both were Americans against Americans and for control of firearms.

4. Has anyone noticed that people declare anything and everything under the FREEDOM OF SPEECH section of the Constitution and there sledom seems to be a challenge, I challanged that pissing on the FLAG is NOT freedom of speech anymore than going into a cementery and knocking over headstones is and yet it was safe guarded by U.S. Courts as FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Have you seen though that the Second Amendment is ALWAYS being challenged for the wording and jus twho has the RIGHT to bear arms and the GENERALIZATION of acceptance is absent with the second???

5. Have you noticed that with all the Gun Laws that we already have on the books, the Democrats keep finding NEWER reasons to add more and that the AWB also included the clause for 200,000 more Police????

6. Have you noticed like a COPS or other news stories that if they go to a SUSPECTS home, long before this suspect hasbeen tried, it seems that there is an unwritten rule, that if a Firearms or ammo is found, it is BAD and they show it being removed and call it a CACHE and take photos of it, like it was a Trophy Kill?? Have you noticed that a suspect who owns weapons is assumed to be breaking BIG Laws? Have you noticed that if there is a shooting and mention of the family is made, it usaully will talk abou the firearms within that family as if they are terrorists and owningfirearms is EVIL?

The Revolution is already upon us... Don't wait it is already here. Walk down a back road out of season with a firearm and see how many cops will be on your ass with their guns drawn, even if you are just on your way to the dump to shoot rats.

I am not paranoid, but I keep many guns in my home and I ahve an abundance of ammo.

[mym1a]

wingwiper if we had lost the revolutionary war don't you think the founding fathers would of been excuted, and referred to as common criminals? they were faced with over whelming odds and battled the super power of their time?

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

wingwiper if we had lost the revolutionary war don't you think the founding fathers would of been excuted, and referred to as common criminals? they were faced with over whelming odds and battled the super power of their time?

I do mym1a, but I also remember they won through the help of the people, standing shoulder to shoulder with some of those founding fathers. Something in this day seems to not only be forgotten, but that some would prefer, the people never get or have the chance to do ever again.

Quote:       Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Gentlemen, The word Revolution has been being used for over 40 years and even the Beatles sang of the upcoming revolution. 1. I do not believe that an American soldier would fire on a fellow decent American. 2. I do think that knocking on doors and grabbing guns is a different story and do beleive if so ordered to do, the American Military would indeed do it. The ATF has no problem doing it, either does the Police Depts so why would the American soldier? 3. the problem is MUTINY when more than two soldiers Unite and disagree with a LAWFUL ORDER and that ORDER could be made LAWFUL. To be able to get soldiers to disagree and turn agaisnt the rest of the force would be nothing less than a miracle. We need to look at Ruby Ridge and how a family was destroyed over a 1/4" of length of a shotgun. We need to look at Waco and see how 80 people, including women and children were killed after a long stand off. Both were Americans against Americans and for control of firearms. 4. Has anyone noticed that people declare anything and everything under the FREEDOM OF SPEECH section of the Constitution and there sledom seems to be a challenge, I challanged that pissing on the FLAG is NOT freedom of speech anymore than going into a cementery and knocking over headstones is and yet it was safe guarded by U.S. Courts as FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Have you seen though that the Second Amendment is ALWAYS being challenged for the wording and jus twho has the RIGHT to bear arms and the GENERALIZATION of acceptance is absent with the second??? 5. Have you noticed that with all the Gun Laws that we already have on the books, the Democrats keep finding NEWER reasons to add more and that the AWB also included the clause for 200,000 more Police???? 6. Have you noticed like a COPS or other news stories that if they go to a SUSPECTS home, long before this suspect hasbeen tried, it seems that there is an unwritten rule, that if a Firearms or ammo is found, it is BAD and they show it being removed and call it a CACHE and take photos of it, like it was a Trophy Kill?? Have you noticed that a suspect who owns weapons is assumed to be breaking BIG Laws? Have you noticed that if there is a shooting and mention of the family is made, it usaully will talk abou the firearms within that family as if they are terrorists and owningfirearms is EVIL? The Revolution is already upon us... Don't wait it is already here. Walk down a back road out of season with a firearm and see how many cops will be on your ass with their guns drawn, even if you are just on your way to the dump to shoot rats. I am not paranoid, but I keep many guns in my home and I ahve an abundance of ammo.

With respect, this too shall be short. WELL SAID and I AGREE.

G-Meister

[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by GlockMeister

I do mym1a, but I also remember they won through the help of the people, standing shoulder to shoulder with some of those founding fathers. Something in this day seems to not only be forgotten, but that some would prefer, the people never get or have the chance to do. G-Meister

only about 25 percent of the population were in favor

[GlockMeister]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

only about 25 percent of the population were in favor

But they were still allowed to. Some did when asked. And the ones that didn't or refused weren't told they wouldn't be included in the constitution. They were still treated the same as that 25% you speak of.
Now a days it would seem many believe we shouldn't be able to fight if needed. Some believe that only the military and LEOs and similar should have and be allowed to have firearms. Those same people say that the 2nd Amendment proves it and that that's what it means.

With that said, and on a different note, but still kind of with in the conversation of sorts. I'd be curious as to how SOME of the police officers on here feel about civilians having AKs, ARs and the like?

G-Meister

[mym1a]

the issue as i see it at this time, generaly everyone is still prety fat and happy