U.S. Troops Asked If They Would Shoot American Citizens

[skulker]

U.S. Troops Asked If They Would Shoot American Citizens

[jerry]

I remember crossing this bridge in the late 80's 20 yrs later, answer, still no.

[GDawg]

Well, I hope they know that in their "brain washed" state, that we aren't Iraqi's and we ain't going to be so easy to take down.

[mym1a]

I don't think most would? but foreign troops under the authority of the UN oh yeah!!!!!

[GlockMeister]

You know why they're training them don't you? Because down the road, they plan on confiscating our firearms. The martial law thing will just be the reason for it. They know in doing so they are GOING to have a REAL FIGHT on their hands. Civil War will break out, in a heartbeat. They want to make sure the soldiers will follow the order to shoot.

The attempts to politically and justifiably take our firearms away has been attempted, is being attempted and will continue to be attempted. It is only a matter of time, and if we let them, they'll not only do it, but they'll get away with it. This November election will be the beginning to the end as I see it. It will be the deciding time as to whether or not they succeed.

Some will reply to this post and say we're or I'm giving into fears. Fears or not, I don't put anything past anyone anymore. I'm trusting my own Government less and less. I often wonder if gang bangers, career criminals or other individuals just hard up for money, with no heart or conscience, morals or ethics, at times aren't hired or asked to do shootings, robberies, whatever in order to give those anti-gun politicians the backing they'll need to take them away. Sure, someone may say no way, but prove to me it has never or can never happen.

Either way, from the sounds of it, this is a true story and it is one scary thought.

I'm sure other readers will see what I've just said and say I'm nuts or whatever. My reply to them would be this.

In this day and age, if a man can throw his 4 children off an 80ft. bridge, which recently did happen, just to get even with their mother, what would they then do if paid cash to do so? That's only one of multitude of horrible and barbaric things human beings do to other human beings on a daily basis in not only this country, but this world. Genocide in the name of cleansing. Yea, there's a reason to kill hundreds of thousands of human beings. I put nothing past anyone anymore.

I'm in no way going to become hysterical over this. But, I'd rather error on the side of over-caution then tell my self,like many will; nah, they'll never do that, not in a million years. Yea, and at first, I'm sure the Jewish people never thought Hitler would do what he eventually did to them either.

Shreveport weather stormtracker KSLA News 12 ArkLaTex Ark-La-Tex Doppler Texarkana Bossier MarshallHomeland Security Enlists Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever Declared

G-Meister

[mym1a]

I'm not saying its impossible,but lets see how this upcoming hearing goes with the supremes???

[Seabeescotty]

Gdawg, I'm gonna be polite about this, but I'm a little put out with your statement. Our folks in uniform are NOT brainwashed!!! I heard this when I came back from "Nam, and it really got my goat then!! Both of my sons are Marines, and have served to the very best of their ability. Both have come home, and if any, and I do mean any BODY insults their service to their country, I WILL step up to the plate, and ask that individual what THAT individual has done for this country lately, besides bitch and WHINE!!!!! I have had private talks with my kids, and asked if that kind of nonsense had been thrown around, and they told me that the soldiers of this land are OF this land! Do me a favor, and stop throwing BS at our next generation of real AMERICANS!!!!!!!!! I'm back!! to finish, you guys don't know any of the kids in uniform, do you? I have six who are close relations, and this thread is being very disrespectful of them!!! Never will an American disarm another because of UN BS!!!!!

[GDawg]

Originally Posted by Seabeescotty

Gdawg, I'm gonna be polite about this, but I'm a little put out with your statement. Our folks in uniform are NOT brainwashed!!! I heard this when I came back from "Nam, and it really got my goat then!! Both of my sons are Marines, and have served to the very best of their ability. Both have come home, and if any, and I do mean any BODY insults their service to their country, I WILL step up to the plate, and ask that individual what THAT individual has done for this country lately, besides bitch and WHINE!!!!! I have had private talks with my kids, and asked if that kind of nonsense had been thrown around, and they told me that the soldiers of this land are OF this land! Do me a favor, and stop throwing BS at our next generation of real AMERICANS!!!!!!!!! I'm back!! to finish, you guys don't know any of the kids in uniform, do you? I have six who are close relations, and this thread is being very disrespectful of them!!! Never will an American disarm another because of UN BS!!!!!

I hate to tell you bro, and with all due respect, they are absolutely "brain washed" to a certain extent to follow orders blindly.

You act like you are the only one that has served this country. I too served my country (ME, MYSELF) and grew up in a military family. I served under NATO forces for a few years and saw much stuff. Some soldiers are stronger than others to know right from wrong. I'm a soldier but not active at the moment. I'm a patriot for the defense of our country. Most men these days have served. But not all think or follow the same way. I would never turn against my own country for any reason. I would hate to have to fight Americans... but I will fight for my family, my home and MY country. It's not politicians or an Army that makes up this country. It is you and I and the people next door that IS AMERICA. If a young soldier blindly follows orders for the "good of the people"... well, I hate to tell you. I may disagree and just try to disarm me.

[LarryO1970]

Hey... I'm a man in uniform and certainly NOT brainwashed. Brainwashed? My ass.

I'll tell all of you right now... no fu***ng way... will I shoot another American. Orders or not... no way. Orders need to be lawful for them to be carried out... and frankly, I cannot see any order to shoot American citizens as lawful.

I've defied unlawful orders before and I'll do it again in a heartbeat. Count me in on your side Seabeescotty and mym1a...

[Seabeescotty]

I have known and still knoww instructors who train young soldiers, and if brainwashed, they are trained to give their all for their fellows, in the trenches, not to come home and disarm their families because some leftwing politician sold this country down the river! I have sat in a room with some of the finest, best trained snipers and NCO's this country has ever put in uniform, and dicussed this very topic, and the boys(I'm old) flat out explained to me that above all else, they would never serve a UN doctrine to trample the constitution of their country, after all, they swore an oath to uphold the Constitution!!

[GDawg]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Hey... I'm a man in uniform and certainly NOT brainwashed. Brainwashed? My ass.

I'll tell all of you right now... no fu***ng way... will I shoot another American. Orders or not... no way. Orders need to be lawful for them to be carried out... and frankly, I cannot see any order to shoot American citizens as lawful.

I've defied unlawful orders before and I'll do it again in a heartbeat. Count me in on your side Seabeescotty and mym1a...

BTW, I'm not saying all troops are "brain washed". I wasn't. But there are those that are. Tell me you haven't ever met that "loose cannon" just waiting to be given a reason to kill someone. All that person needs is "an order" to do so. Most military are honorable and smart. But there are some that will follow blindly just to be given the chance to kill and have the power. No disrespect intended to our military. Like I said, I served, my father served and his father too. But there are the ones we need to watch out for.

[LarryO1970]

"Tell me you haven't ever met that "loose cannon" just waiting to be given a reason to kill someone."

... those people are kicked out of the services, section-8. Some of the kids I've met talk a big game... but that's it. Until they see death for the first time, whether in combat or not, it changes their entire outlook on life.

I have never, in my 14+ years of service to this Country and its' people, met a loose cannon who really wanted to do it, period.

Sure... UN troops would do it in a heartbeat... but not our own services.

"But there are the ones we need to watch out for." ... not to worry, we know who these people are and will "guide" them in the correct direction. Put some faith in your NCO's ...

[mym1a]

For the record seabeescotty, I doubt that the vast majority of service men would, I have a cousin over there and have the greats respect for those who have been in a combat situation and my hats off to your sons,I think after the incident at Katrina a lot of people got a heavy dose of paranoia wether that paranoia is warranted?most likely no.I think the whole issue about the 2nd ammendment will probably be settled through the supreme court,which some knowledgible people have told me, will more then likely rule in our favor.time will tell? In a bad situation , I can see our politicians trying this stunt! thats no reflection on our proud military! as for our politicians, I don't trust them!

[GDawg]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

"Tell me you haven't ever met that "loose cannon" just waiting to be given a reason to kill someone."

... those people are kicked out of the services, section-8. Some of the kids I've met talk a big game... but that's it. Until they see death for the first time, whether in combat or not, it changes their entire outlook on life.

I have never, in my 14+ years of service to this Country and its' people, met a loose cannon who really wanted to do it, period.

Sure... UN troops would do it in a heartbeat... but not our own services.

"But there are the ones we need to watch out for." ... not to worry, we know who these people are and will "guide" them in the correct direction. Put some faith in your NCO's ...

Now you are going to make me look up some recent local news about some Ft. Carson troops (not from Colorado) with "Hate" tattoos on them that recently came back from Iraq and killed fellow soldiers and innocent civilians claiming the "war" did this to them. But the "Hate" tattoos were on them when they joined. Read the news. They exist and they are very real.

[The_Patriot]

I just finished 20 years in the service. There's no way people I ever knew (and that would be THOUSANDS over the years) would ever kill or shoot Americans in the line of duty. Sure, there are some nuts, but we're talking on a broad scale, right?

Most that I've known are pretty set on defending this country and the Constitution. I think most of the SNCOs and Officers I know/knew would be smart enough to recognize that as an unlawful order and not execute it. You would have a fractured military if such an order was ever given. I was both an NCO and an officer; I would have NEVER given an order to hurt an American without a very good, highly unusual reason.

Further, I've always found the notion of black-booted agents coming to everyone's door for their firearms (not talking Orleans, but on a national scale) ridiculous. I have a federal agent in the family and I know a bunch of his buddies. The majority of them would walk away from their job before they did such a thing. The majority of them respect the rule of law, too.

Besides, it's moot anyway. There are something like 100 million firearms in this country, right? Or is it more? I'm sure the armed resistance "they" (whomever they are) met would deter a full-scale recall on firearms. There are a hell of a lot more of "us" than there are of "them." Which is weird...because "they" are Americans just like us.

I, for one, don't think that day will come. I think it's more likely that they'll continue to try to whittle away our rights slowly, until the day comes when we don't realize what's happened. Slippery slope is real...we shouldn't give in on any rights or they'll just take more.

Oh, and one more thing about blind order-following. That's complete bunk. Lower ranking folks are expected to do what their told, but I can tell you first hand (especially in officer traininig), there was quite a bit of emphasis on what constitutes a lawful order. Anyone in the military is within their rights to not execute an order if they believe it to be unlawful.

[Seabeescotty]

I"m going to be REALLY polite this time. I didn't mean to point a finger, and didn't want to start any kind of argument, but to make a statement that our military is being prepared to disarm us is just not true! Number one, it couldn't be done without being leaked out to the whole country! Number two, all of the kids serving now are damn near the cream of this land's crop. They choose to serve this country because they believe it is the right and honorable thing to do. These are the kids who will come home and join OUR ranks, because they are fighting for OUR freedom. I said before, I have met and know many of these kids, and if this statement was thrown in their faces, someone would likely get his hiney kicked up around his shoulders. You say you served, and yet believe our troops can be turned against us, the United States of America! I cannot understand where that comes from, as I, and my fellow combat veterans would proudly lay our lives at the foot of the altar of WAR to preserve and protect this wonderful country. And WE did NOT get a GOOD welcome home from the VERY people we served to uphold the FREEDOM of this NATION!!!

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

I have come up on "capture the civilian" excercises before while working on Ft. Bragg. This training has a valuable application during wartime, and I am sure it is being used today in Iraq.

These situations don't always have happy endings; anyone here ever heard of Robin Sage?

CNN.com - Deputy kills soldier during Green Beret exercise - February 24, 2002

[GlockMeister]

Originally Posted by GDawg

I hate to tell you bro, and with all due respect, they are absolutely "brain washed" to a certain extent to follow orders blindly. I too served my country (ME, MYSELF) and grew up in a military family. I served under NATO forces for a few years and saw much stuff. Some soldiers are stronger than others to know right from wrong. I'm a soldier but not active at the moment. I'm a patriot for the defense of our country. Most men these days have served. But not all think or follow the same way. I would never turn against my own country for any reason. I would hate to have to fight Americans... but I will fight for my family, my home and MY country.

I would like to think and believe as well that most soldiers WOULD NOT follow such an order. But, I can believe that some, not sure how many, may have been asked if they COULD, if ordered to do so, that's what I'm replying and speaking about.. PLEASE, just because I've replied with concern, DO NOT ever think I am saying anything bad about any soldier, serving in the military now or in the past. I'm merely commenting on how I don;t put anything past anyone, especially our Government in this day and age. The ones that say yes, I'm sure are trained to do so. The only thing that scares me about it at all is I don't put it past our Government to try.

I never served, but my father did. I respect those that have, I respect, like most, the law. I respect police officers, the military and those who serve in it. However, that does not mean that I think because of how I feel and live my life, that in a given second, for following what I believe, that I have a right to bear arms, that I wouldn't be treated like a criminal if I didn't comply and do what I'm told or that just because I respect them that I'll be treated differently. They could care less.

If you, or anyone has followed the links in this initial story that was posted, or for that matter just remember that-THIS EXACT THING/SCENARIO DID HAPPEN in a now WELL REMEMBERED CITY CALLED NEW ORLEANS. THEY DID CONFISCATE PEOPLES FIREARMS, THE POLICE DID, THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS USED AND DID AS THE MILITARY WAS. DOES ANYONE THINK FOR A SECOND, THAT HAD ANYONE TRULY REFUSED, NOT BEEN TALKED DOWN OR OUT OF THEIR FIREARM, PROBABLY TOLD THEY'D GET IT/THEM BACK, THAT THEY'D OF BEEN EITHER TEAR GASSED OUT OR SHOT IF THEY DIDN'T COMPLY? SURE, EVENTUALLY SOME GOT THEIR GUNS BACK, WITH THE HELP OF THE NRA AND THE COURTS. SOME GOT THEM BACK BROKEN,SCRATCHED AND ALL BANGED UP. STILL OTHERS HAD TO WAIT MONTHS. SOME WERE TOLD THEY COULDN'T BE FOUND.

I'm sure they're lost. Lost right into someone's collection or stash that confiscated them. They may have even been sold to someone else. Who knows. They should have never had the right to take them, but they did.

Back when this all happened, in New Orleans, I'd emailed the NRA. It was after the victory, that many states have now past, about NOT confiscating firearms in a time of disaster or however it was worded. But I didn't see one specific reason wording that they couldn't or wouldn't take them in what had been passed.

So I emailed the NRA and asked them. I have never gotten a reply. But my question was this." It would appear we have one a minor battle for our rights to keep and bear our firearms in a time of disaster. But what about if and when our Governments, State and or Federal were to declare Martial Law? Would they still NOT confiscate them? Was that included in the bill, as it was written and passed"? Again, I never got a reply. I took the lack of reply to assume, they could and more then likely probably would confiscate them during Martial Law.

I REMEMBER WATCHING A VIDEO OF A LITTLE OLD LADY OF ABOUT 60 OR 70 YRS OLD. BEING TACKLED,KNEED, AND PUNCHED IN AN ATTEMPT TO TAKE HER GUN AWAY. I COULD TELL BY THE WAY SHE WAS HOLDING IT, A REVOLVER, THAT IT WAS EMPTY AND THE CYLINDER WAS OPEN, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE SHE HAD A HOLD OF IT.

If the link was still good, you could watch the video yourself as I did. It was a pitiful sight to watch men weighing a couple hundred pounds taking on this fragile,scared just wanting to stay in her home little old women. Her home, as seen in the video, wasn't even threatened by the water. She had plenty of food and liquids to drink, all visible and evident in the video. What harm would it have been to let that little old lady have one revolver to protect herself?

G-Meister

[GDawg]

Headlines: Carson soldier alleges shooting at Iraqi civilians | bastien, shields, bressler - Gazette.com

[LarryO1970]

GDawg ... those people you are referring to are in the minute minority. It is being made out that most in the military are this way. There... is where the facts are wrong.

Believe what you want... I know what I see because I work with these people daily. You may be able to come up with about a dozen articles... doubtful it will be that many but in reality... what is the percentage of what you find vs. the sheer amounts of people in the Armed Forces?

There's your answer.