[Noel]

I have to admit… that I think you are partly right… A stay at home mother who worshiped her children raised me… My mother was a saint… and I have watched a lot of violence on TV and I can’t even imagine walking into a school with a gun!

There’s no doubt about it, It takes a combination of certain circumstances to create a sadistic monster like this… As far as God being involved or not… I don’t think anybody can real know that answer… But I real doubt that taking him/she out of the school is going to help with the situation…

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

I often wonder what all these medications do to a persons brain?

Medications are like guns... They have a proper time and place to use them... They are as good and bad as man makes them...

[Death Metal]

i dunno, i grew up watching violent movies and tv shows and grew up playing Doom and other shoot em ups that the media constantly berets on, and never had one inclination to commit any crime.

but interestingly enough a lot of these teenage shooters who are on medications like anti depressants, are more prone to commit murder and suicide.

I blame the medications, and parents attitude if Johnny seems hyper he must have ADHD or bipolar and jack him up on more drugs than one can shake a stick at. there must be repercussions down the line that these drugs cause. One has to wonder if this is one of them.

[mym1a]

your right noel time and a place for most things

[dhermesc]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mym1a

I often wonder what all these medications do to a persons brain?

I wonder too. My 8 year old has been Dilantin, Keppra, Phenobarbitol and Lamictal for over two years (four years for some). At other times he's been on Clonazipan, Depakote, Carbamazepine, Topamax, Oxcarbazepine, Zonisamide all since he was 2 years old. All the drugs I listed have psychological and mental side effects - some of them even list suicide as a side effect. As stated above all of these drugs must be tapered off or added to gradually. Abrupt dosage change (up or down) can have disasterous results. He'll probably be on these drugs for years (if not forever) and it makes you wonder if you're doing long term harm to him socially or physically.


Don't worry, the nanny state will soon impliment a "law" stating you must be found mentally competitent by a court appointed shrink before you can buy a firearm. Don't laugh I've heard this one being seriously kicked around before.

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:      

You know, one common thread runs through all of the school shootings this country has seen.

Here's another common thread...

All the mass assault shootings shootings that have happened in our country since the mid-80's have happened in "Gun Free" zones. Hmm, seems like that works, right?

Take responsibility for yourself and get a CCW permit.


Remember the kid in KY who shot 2 other students with a hunting rifle, I think in the late 80's or early 90's...?

Columbine

North Hollywood Shootings

VA Tech

Bailey, CO

Nebraska Mall Shooting, The mall was a "Gun Free" zone

CO Springs Church Shooting (Besides the members who were on security detail)

Illinois, Chicago

[Noel]

[quote=Cyrano;425192]You know, one common thread runs through all of the school shootings this country has seen. All of the shooters have been on some kind of medication for mental illness; and all of them stopped taking their medications some time before they went off the rails and commenced firing.
Cyano... I do not doubt you on this… But I was wondering, is this a fact, that all of the shooting is children who have stop taking their meds?

[Cyrano]

Quote:       Originally Posted by dhermesc

I wonder too. My 8 year old has been Dilantin, Keppra, Phenobarbitol and Lamictal for over two years (four years for some). At other times he's been on Clonazipan, Depakote, Carbamazepine, Topamax, Oxcarbazepine, Zonisamide all since he was 2 years old. All the drugs I listed have psychological and mental side effects - some of them even list suicide as a side effect. As stated above all of these drugs must be tapered off or added to gradually. Abrupt dosage change (up or down) can have disasterous results. He'll probably be on these drugs for years (if not forever) and it makes you wonder if you're doing long term harm to him socially or physically.

You know, you have to wonder. I went through the public school system in the 1960s with no disruptive kids, at a time when many familes had a stay-at-home mom but there were some (mine included) where both parents worked, the mother at least part time so she could be at home when the kids got home from school. The only medication I can recall a kid ever being on was insulin; one of the girls in my class had to leave the classroom for about 10 minutes before lunch and go to the school nurse to get an insulin shot. No one thought anything about it.

Boys might get a little wriggly and kids of either sex might be bored and stare out the windows, but we didn't have kids with behavior problems as they are defined today. We weren't disruptive because A) the teachers would land on you like a ton of bricks if you were; and B) if things ever got to the point that the dreaded words, "Go to the Principal's Office" were uttered, the overall reaction from the rest of the class was as if you'd been condemned to death and you were going on The Last Mile. (Not that the Principal, Miss Nugent, ever needed to paddle anyone. Didn't even need the threat. She came across as a stern New England schoolmarm from the 19th Century that you just did not screw around with. She could turn the cockiest sixth grade bully into a pile of quivering mush with a gimlet eye, a sharp tongue and the threats of detention, suspension or expulsion. And that was before she called up your parents and told them what you had been up to and had the parents in for a little chat. She ran our elementary school with a steel hand in a velvet glove and could have given Marine DIs lessons in tough.)

It was made plain from the start that there was respect on both sides. Kids were there to learn. Teachers were there to teach. Cheating was not tolerated. You got the grades you earned. We said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning, and I think it was in the second grade, when most kids are old enough to understand, that the teachers broke the Pledge down and explained it, though nowhere near as eloquently as Red Skelton does in another thread.

I really do believe that kids rise to the expectations people have of them. I also believe that the drugging problem stems from two sources.

First, the hippie-era parents and the Me Decade parents have done a lot to undermine the power and authority of teachers in general. It's all right for a kid to challenge a teacher on things in a subject - up to a point. A little challenge gets kids and teachers to think and debate and livens up the learning process. But the long-haired hippie-type pinkos challenged authority simply because it WAS authority. They refused to accept that authority is necessary to maintain order in a learning environment and could not differentiate the difference between challenging the subject matter and challenging the teacher. And then the Me Decade parents started thinking their kids were entitled to good grades just for showing up. And they would challenge the competence and fariness of any grade that Little Entitlement received that was not an 'A.'

With the authority to run their classrooms as they see fit challenged by parents, and besieged by kids that thought they could get away with disruptive behavior because their parents had never instilled discipline into them and insisted on it at home that they could not handle, teachers were more than willing to send any disruptive child off to the school pshrinks and see him or her drugged into the middle of next week. Anything, just so they could teach in peace. Never mind you had kids doped up for acting like kids, and kids with warped worldviews by parents who refused to do their jobs as parent because that would mark them as members of - wait for it - The Establishment that they had spent their lives rebelling against.

Kids are being doped up for acting like kids, as I see it. The rule of thumb I was taught in school is a child's attention span is about 15 minutes plus 1 minute per year of age. In high school, it's about 20 minutes plus 1 minute per year of age; and in college, 30 minutes plus 1 minute per year of age. Teachers who tailor their lessons accordingly, give the kids a mental health break (which in junior high and high school and college amounts to transit time between classrooms) of about 5 to 8 minutes between lessons don't need to have kids drugged in the classroom, because they are always engaged within their attention spans. But this lesson seems to have been forgotten by the current generation of teachers.

If the parents would support the administrators and the teaching staff, lesson plans were not aimed at passing bullshit tests like No Child Left Behind, and if the schools insisted on respect from the students for the teachers and vice versa, and ran by the West Point Credo, they wouldn't need to drug the kids

[BunnyWabbit]

What do you think would happen if you CCd a gun in a gun free zone, then something happened and you shot the person. Wouldn't you get in trouble for carrying even though you saved lives? And, depending on the city this happened, they could pursue to get you for murder.

[LarryO1970]

I brought this same question up a few days ago ...

Could you imagine the outcry across the nation if a state attempted to prosecute a student or teacher for defending the other students by killing the gunman?

A few states... of course, would try to hang the student or teacher out to dry...

[CrazyIvan]

I think the problem is that we ARE doping up our kids. We expect the drugs to fix our mental and emotional issues and because they make the children "feel" better by treating the symptoms, nobody bothers to treat the problem itself. I grew up with emotional problems, but I was never put on any drugs. I was taught, and learned on my own and with the help of a few others, to deal with my thoughs, problems and issues. Isn't that the way it SHOULD be anyway? Then when a person is either not on or gets off the drugs, they can control their urges, their feelings and their thoughts???

We are the Drugged Generation...anyone living right now between the ages of 7 and 30. Maybe people will figure it out eventually.

[LarryO1970]

Ivan... I could not agree with you any more than I do. Society is turning into a medicated slumber with the pharmaceutical companies reaping the benefits.

Refer to post #3.

[CrazyIvan]

When we had kids act like idiots in elementary school or middle school when I was younger, Prozac and other Ritalin were just becoming popular. I am 27 now. But, generally, they were put in Special Ed classes. (imagine that) GAWD FORBID if we aren't politically correct and don't dope them up like some kind of vegetable though....ugh.

[LarryO1970]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

When we had kids act like idiots in elementary school or middle school when I was younger, Prozac and other Ritalin were just becoming popular. I am 27 now. But, generally, they were put in Special Ed classes. (imagine that) GAWD FORBID if we aren't politically correct and don't dope them up like some kind of vegetable though....ugh.

... when I was a kid, nobody was on that stuff. We had out usual class bully and the kids in special ed. ... that was it.

Kids now... (God, I hate to throw a percentage into this) are probably 50% on behavior control or anti-depressant drugs. That is scary in itself.

The Govt. wants to regulate guns, sex on TV, etc. yet they "let" the pharmaceutical companies run rampant?

Did I miss something?

[CrazyIvan]

Drugs, Money & Oil = Power, and all four things run our Government and political leaders in it.

[mym1a]

Quote:       Originally Posted by dhermesc

I wonder too. My 8 year old has been Dilantin, Keppra, Phenobarbitol and Lamictal for over two years (four years for some). At other times he's been on Clonazipan, Depakote, Carbamazepine, Topamax, Oxcarbazepine, Zonisamide all since he was 2 years old. All the drugs I listed have psychological and mental side effects - some of them even list suicide as a side effect. As stated above all of these drugs must be tapered off or added to gradually. Abrupt dosage change (up or down) can have disasterous results. He'll probably be on these drugs for years (if not forever) and it makes you wonder if you're doing long term harm to him socially or physically. Don't worry, the nanny state will soon impliment a "law" stating you must be found mentally competitent by a court appointed shrink before you can buy a firearm. Don't laugh I've heard this one being seriously kicked around before.

having worked part time with mr and autism and a few other disorders.I have some knowledge of the drugs your son is on. some are seizure meds that are also used to counter behavioral problems clonazipan is a narcotic some of the others might be mood levelers extended use of these drugs can't be healthy, I wish you the best with your child your carrying a heavy burden.its my understand that blood levels are checked quite often to ensure damage isn't done to internal organs and frequently have to change meds which usualy has an effect on behaviors.