Gun Grabbing Under Martial Law -- Church Says Surrender

HippyInASuit · 02-21-2008, 07:14 PM

This local news channel actually had a decent story about the machinery that is waiting in the wings, primed and ready.

YouTube - Clergy Response Teams

mym1a · 02-21-2008, 07:36 PM

what else did you expect the churches to say?

Cyrano · 02-21-2008, 08:34 PM

From where I sit, they have a word for those Clergy Response Teams.

They call them "quislings."

The thought occurs to me those "men of the cloth" need to sit down and rewatch the NBC miniseries, V. In an emergency, if they are advising you to give up your firearms they are not your friends. It should also be noted you can support any position by quoting the Bible out of context - just as they were doing.

nathangdad · 02-21-2008, 08:50 PM

The state co-opted the Orthodox Church to work with it
in the spying on and control of the people.

One of the factors that helped the Communists in their
revolution was the simple fact that masses of people were
not only angry with, but willing to abandon the Church.
A strong Church would have been a bulwark against
godless, all controlling Communism. People could have
rallied around it for freedom.

If organized religion in American wishes to have itself and
its institutions thrown upon the rockpile of history they
are choosing a quick path to the point of abandonment
by the middle class. Sad but true they will find themselves
adrift in a sea of nothingness while Christian Americans will
seek new spiritual avenues.

Mooseman684 · 02-21-2008, 08:51 PM

What A crock !!! I'm glad I don't go to any of those Churches...

Rave · 02-21-2008, 08:59 PM

I guess it's all about power and control,sad.

Nanders · 02-21-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathangdad

The state co-opted the Orthodox Church to work with it
in the spying on and control of the people.

One of the factors that helped the Communists in their
revolution was the simple fact that masses of people were
not only angry with, but willing to abandon the Church.
A strong Church would have been a bulwark against
godless, all controlling Communism. People could have
rallied around it for freedom.

If organized religion in American wishes to have itself and
its institutions thrown upon the rockpile of history they
are choosing a quick path to the point of abandonment
by the middle class. Sad but true they will find themselves
adrift in a sea of nothingness while Christian Americans will
seek new spiritual avenues.

Very true. Unfortunately many pastors and church goers would crumble under real persecution. They will find that it is easier to take the path of least resistance. That means many (or most) will be more than willing to do what the Government tells them to do.

mym1a · 02-21-2008, 10:05 PM

He might change his tune when he is dragged out of his church and placed in a poltical re-education camp and forced to practice another faith????

Mooseman684 · 02-21-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mym1a

He might change his tune when he is dragged out of his church and placed in a poltical re-education camp and forced to practice another faith????

By then it is TOO Late !!!!

mym1a · 02-21-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

By then it is TOO Late !!!!

history has a way of repeating its self ??

toolman · 02-21-2008, 10:14 PM

I'm not going to go get my bible, but I don't remember gov't being established by God. Government is a wholly man-made diety that springs from our inate desire for organization and stability. No matter your race or religion, we all are basically leaders or followers and we organize our gov't accordingly.

Mooseman684 · 02-21-2008, 10:21 PM

As I recall,On the Mountain, Satan offered Jesus all of the "Kingdoms of the World" if he would bow down to him...I think the Clergy is Confused or Havent read the Bible...
Satan could Not Give what he didn't Have...HMMM
Rich

troy2000 · 02-21-2008, 10:51 PM

Let that be a reminder that religion is strong in this country because of separation of church and state, not in spite of it. When the churches become instruments of the government, or governments become instruments of the church, faith in God goes down the toilet. Nathangdad's post does a good job of pointing that out about the Orthodox Church in Russia.

Not that it doesn't get ridiculous sometimes, as in all the lawsuits concerning crosses on public property. But it's a lot safer to err in that direction, than it is to go the other way and let government and church into bed with one another...

LarryO1970 · 02-22-2008, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mym1a

what else did you expect the churches to say?

Separation of church and state. The church can do what it wants... the state says we have the right to own guns. I was raised going to church and believe in being a good person, BUT I do what I want with MY 2nd Amendment, not what the church says.

Nanders · 02-22-2008, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mym1a

He might change his tune when he is dragged out of his church and placed in a poltical re-education camp and forced to practice another faith????

Probably not. I do hate to sound cynical about this but, I do believe that many pastors would recant Jesus before they would dare suffer for being His servant.

Cyrano · 02-22-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanders

Probably not. I do hate to sound cynical about this but, I do believe that many pastors would recant Jesus before they would dare suffer for being His servant.

Amen to that! I think in my life I have met exactly three actual "men of God." I phrase it that way because one of them was a rabbi. All of the other 'men of the cloth' I have met have had more or less of the odor that they think religion is some kind of dodge or long con where you don't actually have to produce anything and live comfortably while you are doing it. The TV and radio preachers are the worst, but the rest aren't prizes.

And for what it's worth, any time a preacher/minister/priest/imam/rabbi gets involved in the government, history shows us the results are never good. I feel that any preacher of any faith who wants to go into politics ought first to be required to give up his religious authority, especially in America. The Framers saw things very clearly when they deliberately separated Church from State back in 1789. Apart from the Second and Fifth Amendments, that portion of the First Amendment is the most important part of the Constitution.

Coeloptera · 02-22-2008, 03:08 PM

The "needs" of the government versus the "wishes" of the public.

Right.

And government established by the Lord? Is he really that stupid? I could point out a lot of governments that were pretty far from being anything like what most people think of as "godly".

He looks like the sort of guy who'd make a great collaborator if his home region was invaded. No backbone.

- Coeloptera

GlockMeister · 02-22-2008, 03:27 PM

So if I heard and understood what was said in this video, "Posse Commitatus" is no longer any good, it was eliminated as of last year. So then all the talk in that one thread about the military being forbidden or couldn't be used to enforce civil law was actually wrong, that as of last year, per this video, that has changed and they could be and can now be used if requested to enforce civil law or any other order given to them pertaining to civilians?

Hmmmm.

Mad Hatter · 02-22-2008, 04:27 PM

Of course you don't hear about the citizens that had to protect their property and some that had to almost fight their way out of the city (with their guns) after Katrina.. the government taking lawful persons guns is OUTRAGEOUS !!

Windwalker · 02-22-2008, 05:03 PM

Yes, Mad Hatter, both outrageous and illegal.

02-21-2008, 08:50 PM	#4
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,195 Trader Rating: (0)	Lesson of pre-Communist Russia The state co-opted the Orthodox Church to work with it in the spying on and control of the people. One of the factors that helped the Communists in their revolution was the simple fact that masses of people were not only angry with, but willing to abandon the Church. A strong Church would have been a bulwark against godless, all controlling Communism. People could have rallied around it for freedom. If organized religion in American wishes to have itself and its institutions thrown upon the rockpile of history they are choosing a quick path to the point of abandonment by the middle class. Sad but true they will find themselves adrift in a sea of nothingness while Christian Americans will seek new spiritual avenues.

02-21-2008, 08:51 PM	#5
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,199 Trader Rating: (0)	What A crock !!! I'm glad I don't go to any of those Churches... __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-21-2008, 08:59 PM	#6
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,735 Trader Rating: (0)	I guess it's all about power and control,sad. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

02-21-2008, 10:14 PM	#11
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,310 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm not going to go get my bible, but I don't remember gov't being established by God. Government is a wholly man-made diety that springs from our inate desire for organization and stability. No matter your race or religion, we all are basically leaders or followers and we organize our gov't accordingly. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

02-21-2008, 10:21 PM	#12
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,199 Trader Rating: (0)	As I recall,On the Mountain, Satan offered Jesus all of the "Kingdoms of the World" if he would bow down to him...I think the Clergy is Confused or Havent read the Bible... Satan could Not Give what he didn't Have...HMMM Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-21-2008, 07:36 PM	#2
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,312 Trader Rating: (0)	what else did you expect the churches to say?

02-21-2008, 08:34 PM	#3
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,896 Trader Rating: (0)	From where I sit, they have a word for those Clergy Response Teams. They call them "quislings." The thought occurs to me those "men of the cloth" need to sit down and rewatch the NBC miniseries, V. In an emergency, if they are advising you to give up your firearms they are not your friends. It should also be noted you can support any position by quoting the Bible out of context - just as they were doing.

02-21-2008, 10:05 PM	#8
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,312 Trader Rating: (0)	He might change his tune when he is dragged out of his church and placed in a poltical re-education camp and forced to practice another faith????

02-21-2008, 10:51 PM	#13
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 8,909 Trader Rating: (0)	Let that be a reminder that religion is strong in this country because of separation of church and state, not in spite of it. When the churches become instruments of the government, or governments become instruments of the church, faith in God goes down the toilet. Nathangdad's post does a good job of pointing that out about the Orthodox Church in Russia. Not that it doesn't get ridiculous sometimes, as in all the lawsuits concerning crosses on public property. But it's a lot safer to err in that direction, than it is to go the other way and let government and church into bed with one another... __________________ If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. -Anatole France

02-22-2008, 03:08 PM	#17
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,408 Trader Rating: (0)	The "needs" of the government versus the "wishes" of the public. Right. And government established by the Lord? Is he really that stupid? I could point out a lot of governments that were pretty far from being anything like what most people think of as "godly". He looks like the sort of guy who'd make a great collaborator if his home region was invaded. No backbone. - Coeloptera

02-22-2008, 03:27 PM	#18
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,882 Trader Rating: (0)	So if I heard and understood what was said in this video, "Posse Commitatus" is no longer any good, it was eliminated as of last year. So then all the talk in that one thread about the military being forbidden or couldn't be used to enforce civil law was actually wrong, that as of last year, per this video, that has changed and they could be and can now be used if requested to enforce civil law or any other order given to them pertaining to civilians? Hmmmm. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

02-22-2008, 04:27 PM	#19
Mad Hatter Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 464 Trader Rating: (0)	Of course you don't hear about the citizens that had to protect their property and some that had to almost fight their way out of the city (with their guns) after Katrina.. the government taking lawful persons guns is OUTRAGEOUS !!

02-22-2008, 05:03 PM	#20
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,218 Trader Rating: (0)	Yes, Mad Hatter, both outrageous and illegal. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it