I thought wrong...

jeffsenpai · 02-26-2008, 07:39 PM

I read the newspaper today to find this article, which seems to shed some light on the crime rate and immigrants in California:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/us...yt&oref=slogin

And a direct link to the full report:
http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/cac...CC_208KBCC.pdf

California: Study of Immigrants and Crime

Immigrants in the state, about 35 percent of adults, are far less likely than native-born Americans to commit crimes, according to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California, a nonpartisan research group. Among men ages 18 to 40, the group most likely to commit crimes, native-born Americans were 10 times more likely than immigrants to be incarcerated for crimes in California prisons and jails. The study included both legal and illegal immigrants, without focusing separately on illegal immigrants. But it found that native-born American men ages 18 to 40 were at least eight times more likely to be imprisoned for crimes than Mexican immigrants in that age range who were not naturalized citizens — a group likely to have a high percentage of illegal immigrants.

Did anyone else think wrong? Despite the fact that being an illegal in the country in itself is a crime, I thought the jail rate would be higher than the study found. Do immigrants have great lawyers or what?

troy2000 · 02-26-2008, 07:46 PM

I'm not totally surprised; most immigrants, legal or illegal, in the age bracket 18 to 40 come here to work. They made it here because they're go-getters, who weren't content to sit at home and starve in the economic cesspool they grew up in. They generally have a high work ethic, and they're too busy to get into trouble.

Unfortunately, I'll bet the statistics are far different for their children, who probably get into trouble at the same rate as everyone else.

By the way, simply being here illegally isn't a crime. It's a civil offense, like breach of contract. I think ignoring a deportation order is a criminal offense, but I'd have to look even that up to be sure.

While I'm at it: I caught a bit of Bill Handel on KFI 640 this morning, and he was talking about the problem Ireland is having with anchor babies and illegal immigrants from Africa. Our situation here isn't unique; every developed country in the world is facing some version of our problems with immigration. That doesn't mean the problems aren't real, of course...

Shaun · 02-26-2008, 07:48 PM

troy those same ones you say are law abiding commited a crime by coming here illegally and then of course they are the same ones killing people in DUI's because they think its okay to drive that way

mym1a · 02-26-2008, 07:49 PM

(35 percent of adults,are far less likely than native born-born americans to commit crimes??so if i'm reading this correctly?well I have ask to whats up with the other 65 percent?and how many leave the country after commiting a crime ????and what about those that cross the border illegaly??? i'm confused ? Jeraldo Rivera must be cooking the books?? I guess the mexican nationals don't have a gang in the us prison system??

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy2000

I'm not totally surprised; most illegals in the age bracket 18 to 40 come here to work. They're here because they have a high work ethic, and they're too busy to get into trouble.

Unfortunately, I'll bet the statistics are far different for their children, who probably get into trouble at the same rate as everyone else.

By the way, simply being here illegally isn't a crime. It's a civil offense, like breach of contract. I think ignoring a deportation order makes it a criminal offense, but I'd have to look even that up to be sure.

While I'm at it: I caught a bit of Bill Handel on KFI 640 this morning, and he was talking about the problem Ireland is having with anchor babies and illegal immigrants from Africa. Our situation here isn't unique; every developed country in the world is facing some version of our problems with immigration. That doesn't mean the problems aren't real, of course...

lol I never seen any body rounded up and deported for a breach of contract?? lol then we should make the law stiffer 2nd time caught as an illegal it should be a felony, but then the libs will say once again oh thats not a crime! we need their votes ????

jeffsenpai · 02-26-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy2000

While I'm at it: I caught a bit of Bill Handel on KFI 640 this morning, and he was talking about the problem Ireland is having with anchor babies and illegal immigrants from Africa. Our situation here isn't unique; every developed country in the world is facing some version of our problems with immigration. That doesn't mean the problems aren't real, of course...

I skimmed over the same story with Muslims in Europe. Not enough "white" babies are being born in Europe, while the Muslim birthrate soars - So some conservative Europeans are up in arms about saving their white culture. Reminded me of what was happening right here in the USA.

troy2000 · 02-26-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

troy those same ones you say are law abiding commited a crime by coming here illegally and then of course they are the same ones killing people in DUI's because they think its okay to drive that way

You've brought up a valid point, Shaun. My personal experience is that the young single ones do have a problem in two areas: drinking and driving, and drinking and fighting one another. That's not good, but it's understandable: young working men a long way from home and family tend to drink.

Look at the history of our Old West, and its trappers, miners, loggers and cowboys. You think maybe they'd have been picking up a few DUI's if cars had been invented?

TXplt · 02-26-2008, 08:10 PM

For me, this wouldn't be surprising. I would expect the crime rate of immigrants to be roughy the same as any other sector of the population. I could understand it being lower--if you wanted to stay here and were discovered, there's a good chance of your being kicked out. This could possibly make you more law-abiding in that the penalties if you got caught for anything could be more severe. (kind of like it's pretty stupid to be speeding with a body in the trunk ?) Maybe I'm wrong.

troy2000 · 02-26-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mym1a

(35 percent of adults,are far less likely than native born-born americans to commit crimes??so if i'm reading this correctly?well I have ask to whats up with the other 65 percent?and how many leave the country after commiting a crime ????and what about those that cross the border illegaly??? i'm confused ? Jeraldo Rivera must be cooking the books?? I guess the mexican nationals don't have a gang in the us prison system??
lol I never seen any body rounded up and deported for a breach of contract?? lol then we should make the law stiffer 2nd time caught as an illegal it should be a felony, but then the libs will say once again oh thats not a crime! we need their votes ????

I believe it means that 35% of the adults in California are immigrants, mymia. That sounds high, but it's entirely possible.

And that's basically what they do when they round them up and deport them: they get them to sign a piece of paper admitting to a civil offense, and away they go.

If immigration activists wanted to throw a real monkey wrench in the works, they'd talk as many illegals as possible into demanding their right to a hearing in front of a judge. Our entire system would be over-run in a matter of weeks.

Maybe they don't do it because it's risky: if they totally broke the system, we might replace it with one that works instead of simply giving up.

Knock off the "liberals want the illegal vote" stuff; illegals aren't citizens and they don't vote. Remember "B1 Bob" Dornan screaming that he'd lost his Congressional seat because illegals voted against him? That turned out to be totally bogus. And if it ain't happening in Orange County, CA, it ain't happening anywhere...

A-10 · 02-26-2008, 08:53 PM

Here's what I got from it: natives are 8 times more likely to be imprisoned. This does not necessarily mean that they committ any more of fewer crimes. This only means that native born individuals are more often caught for their crimes. Perhaps since illegals don't have much of a paper trail to follow, they are more difficult for LEO's to apprehend.

troy2000 · 02-26-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-10

Here's what I got from it: natives are 8 times more likely to be imprisoned. This does not necessarily mean that they committ any more of fewer crimes. This only means that native born individuals are more often caught for their crimes. Perhaps since illegals don't have much of a paper trail to follow, they are more difficult for LEO's to apprehend.

Eight times harder to catch? I don't think so...

bigbuddy21 · 02-26-2008, 10:16 PM

that report was blatanly skewed to misrepresent the numbers. on the laura ingraham radio show this morning she was talking about that report and it was delibrately
misrepresented to show that there is not a problem with illegals committing crimes.
but she had other reports and studies to show that it was false.
it makes you wonder why so called journalist will lie to the american people just to
further their leftist views. that is one reason why i dont read the papers anymore,
or watch the nightly news.
i get all my news and info. from conservative talk and news programs.

stalebiscuit · 02-26-2008, 10:23 PM

i dont think so..........

GlockMeister · 02-26-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy2000

Y That's not good, but it's understandable: young working men a long way from home and family tend to drink.

That's still no excuse. Still doesn't change the fact they're costing all tax payers money. Still doesn't change the fact it's a job that one who's legal won't get. Sure, many don't want them because the pay isn't enough to live off of. But if it isn't enough for them to live off of, it isn't enough for anyone to live off. And since they've taken that job that doesn't pay enough to live off, they resort to other mean to makes ends meet because of it. Generally, that's CRIME!

ArkansasHunter · 02-26-2008, 10:45 PM

We have a mixed race police force and population where I live and most of the crimes are commited buy young Black Americans then Hispanics the hispanics have a lot auto accidents from drunken driveing, no insurance, false information, fighting and most are illegals. Caucations come in 3rd.
Says our LE departments.

stalebiscuit · 02-26-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

We have a mixed race police force and population where I live and most of the crimes are commited buy young Black Americans then Hispanics the hispanics have a lot auto accidents from drunken driveing, no insurance, false information, fighting and most are illegals. Caucations come in 3rd.

id suspect caucasions would be at the bottom of the list seeing as how there arent that many people here in the states from the black and caspian sea region

get it right, im white not a slav

screw the PC definition

drywallguy · 02-27-2008, 12:49 AM

I work in construction. I work with, know, and am friends with many latin immagrants. Very often these folks are the victims of robberies and other crimes (from native born Americans) and will never report anything to the police for fear of deportation.
Now I know that many of you are thinking "It doesn't matter, they are criminals for being here!" But are they really criminals? Are they criminals for pursuing a better life, more work, and more pay in (what is in my opinion, one of the best countries in the world)? Were our great-grandparents criminals for doing the same thing?
No. America is a country built of and by immigrants. This country would be nothing without immagrants. If there were these kinds of laws and restrictions 150 years ago; over half of us would not have the honor of calling ourselves citizens of the United states of America.
How hard would you try to get into this country if you were a poor, mexican laborer? If you knew that there was more work, and better pay in America? If you had a family to support?
If all of them should be deported because a very small number are criminals, then is it true that there should be a nationwide gun ban because a very small number of gun owners are criminals?
No.
I'm sorry if I'm ranting, however maybe some people should attempt to see things in a different light.

Lng Rng · 02-27-2008, 01:16 AM

"It doesn't matter, they are criminals for being here!" But are they really criminals? Are they criminals for pursuing a better life, more work, and more pay in (what is in my opinion, one of the best countries in the world)? Were our great-grandparents criminals for doing the same thing?
Yes, they are. I work construction also, and the legal mexican immigrants don't like the idea of somebodey skipping out on all the leg work that they had to go through, only to take their job, that they already took minimum wage for.

No. America is a country built of and by immigrants. This country would be nothing without immagrants. If there were these kinds of laws and restrictions 150 years ago; over half of us would not have the honor of calling ourselves citizens of the United states of America.

The USA advertised in western european newspapers for immigrants. After that first wave, we advertised in eastern european newspapers. 150 years ago, we were building ourselves into what we are today.
How hard would you try to get into this country if you were a poor, mexican laborer? If you knew that there was more work, and better pay in America? If you had a family to support?
If all of them should be deported because a very small number are criminals, then is it true that there should be a nationwide gun ban because a very small number of gun owners are criminals?
No.
Only the illegal immigrants should be deported, in the same way that convicted fellons can't own guns.

I'm sorry if I'm ranting, however maybe some people should attempt to see things in a different light.[/quote]
I do see your point, I just wish that we could document these people coming into our country, so we know who and what we are dealing with. And that means making some changes, and doing it fast. And after we make some changes, we have to follow through with them, not just give it lip service, and show no back bone. Our laws have to be fair and efficent, but they also have to have some teeth if you chose to blatantly ignore them.

troy2000 · 02-27-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

That's still no excuse. Still doesn't change the fact they're costing all tax payers money. Still doesn't change the fact it's a job that one who's legal won't get. Sure, many don't want them because the pay isn't enough to live off of. But if it isn't enough for them to live off of, it isn't enough for anyone to live off. And since they've taken that job that doesn't pay enough to live off, they resort to other mean to makes ends meet because of it. Generally, that's CRIME!

I wasn't excusing; I was commenting. There's a difference...

Maybe the real crime is being committed by employers? In my opinion, if a company can't make an honest living paying legal employees a legal and living wage, it has no business being in business. I'm not impressed when they tell me they can't make a profit without screwing the help.

Nor do I cut them any slack because they're competing with third-world labor forces in other countries. I don't have any cure-all for that problem, but I'm pretty sure the proper answer isn't importing their own third-world labor force into this country...

mym1a · 02-27-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy2000

I wasn't excusing; I was commenting. There's a difference...

Maybe the real crime is being committed by employers? In my opinion, if a company can't make an honest living paying legal employees a legal and living wage, it has no business being in business. I'm not impressed when they tell me they can't make a profit without screwing the help.

Nor do I cut them any slack because they're competing with third-world labor forces in other countries. I don't have any cure-all for that problem, but I'm pretty sure the proper answer isn't importing their own third-world labor force into this country...

I have to agree with you troy2000 on the issue of employers. If the penility was stiff enough maybe it would dry up the flow of illegals??

mdj696 · 02-27-2008, 07:38 PM

Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".

02-26-2008, 07:39 PM	#1
jeffsenpai Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Posts: 122	I thought wrong... I read the newspaper today to find this article, which seems to shed some light on the crime rate and immigrants in California: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/us...yt&oref=slogin And a direct link to the full report: http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/cac...CC_208KBCC.pdf California: Study of Immigrants and Crime Immigrants in the state, about 35 percent of adults, are far less likely than native-born Americans to commit crimes, according to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California, a nonpartisan research group. Among men ages 18 to 40, the group most likely to commit crimes, native-born Americans were 10 times more likely than immigrants to be incarcerated for crimes in California prisons and jails. The study included both legal and illegal immigrants, without focusing separately on illegal immigrants. But it found that native-born American men ages 18 to 40 were at least eight times more likely to be imprisoned for crimes than Mexican immigrants in that age range who were not naturalized citizens — a group likely to have a high percentage of illegal immigrants. Did anyone else think wrong? Despite the fact that being an illegal in the country in itself is a crime, I thought the jail rate would be higher than the study found. Do immigrants have great lawyers or what?

02-26-2008, 07:46 PM	#2
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,471 Images: 9	I'm not totally surprised; most immigrants, legal or illegal, in the age bracket 18 to 40 come here to work. They made it here because they're go-getters, who weren't content to sit at home and starve in the economic cesspool they grew up in. They generally have a high work ethic, and they're too busy to get into trouble. Unfortunately, I'll bet the statistics are far different for their children, who probably get into trouble at the same rate as everyone else. By the way, simply being here illegally isn't a crime. It's a civil offense, like breach of contract. I think ignoring a deportation order is a criminal offense, but I'd have to look even that up to be sure. While I'm at it: I caught a bit of Bill Handel on KFI 640 this morning, and he was talking about the problem Ireland is having with anchor babies and illegal immigrants from Africa. Our situation here isn't unique; every developed country in the world is facing some version of our problems with immigration. That doesn't mean the problems aren't real, of course... __________________ If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. -Anatole France Last edited by troy2000; 02-26-2008 at 07:57 PM.

02-26-2008, 07:48 PM	#3
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	troy those same ones you say are law abiding commited a crime by coming here illegally and then of course they are the same ones killing people in DUI's because they think its okay to drive that way __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-26-2008, 08:10 PM	#7
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,837 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	For me, this wouldn't be surprising. I would expect the crime rate of immigrants to be roughy the same as any other sector of the population. I could understand it being lower--if you wanted to stay here and were discovered, there's a good chance of your being kicked out. This could possibly make you more law-abiding in that the penalties if you got caught for anything could be more severe. (kind of like it's pretty stupid to be speeding with a body in the trunk ?) Maybe I'm wrong. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

02-26-2008, 08:53 PM	#9
A-10 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 732	Here's what I got from it: natives are 8 times more likely to be imprisoned. This does not necessarily mean that they committ any more of fewer crimes. This only means that native born individuals are more often caught for their crimes. Perhaps since illegals don't have much of a paper trail to follow, they are more difficult for LEO's to apprehend. __________________ If there's nothing worth dying for, there's nothing worth living for.

02-26-2008, 10:16 PM	#11
bigbuddy21 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: new albany in. Posts: 976 Images: 5	that report was blatanly skewed to misrepresent the numbers. on the laura ingraham radio show this morning she was talking about that report and it was delibrately misrepresented to show that there is not a problem with illegals committing crimes. but she had other reports and studies to show that it was false. it makes you wonder why so called journalist will lie to the american people just to further their leftist views. that is one reason why i dont read the papers anymore, or watch the nightly news. i get all my news and info. from conservative talk and news programs. __________________ LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!

02-26-2008, 10:23 PM	#12
stalebiscuit Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: atlanta, but much rather be in valdosta Posts: 1,587	i dont think so..........

02-26-2008, 10:45 PM	#14
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,720	We have a mixed race police force and population where I live and most of the crimes are commited buy young Black Americans then Hispanics the hispanics have a lot auto accidents from drunken driveing, no insurance, false information, fighting and most are illegals. Caucations come in 3rd. Says our LE departments.

02-27-2008, 12:49 AM	#16
drywallguy Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 43	I work in construction. I work with, know, and am friends with many latin immagrants. Very often these folks are the victims of robberies and other crimes (from native born Americans) and will never report anything to the police for fear of deportation. Now I know that many of you are thinking "It doesn't matter, they are criminals for being here!" But are they really criminals? Are they criminals for pursuing a better life, more work, and more pay in (what is in my opinion, one of the best countries in the world)? Were our great-grandparents criminals for doing the same thing? No. America is a country built of and by immigrants. This country would be nothing without immagrants. If there were these kinds of laws and restrictions 150 years ago; over half of us would not have the *honor* of calling ourselves citizens of the United states of America. How hard would you try to get into this country if you were a poor, mexican laborer? If you knew that there was more work, and better pay in America? If you had a family to support? If all of them should be deported because a very small number are criminals, then is it true that there should be a nationwide gun ban because a very small number of gun owners are criminals? No. I'm sorry if I'm ranting, however maybe some people should attempt to see things in a different light.

02-27-2008, 01:16 AM	#17
Lng Rng Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 944	"It doesn't matter, they are criminals for being here!" But are they really criminals? Are they criminals for pursuing a better life, more work, and more pay in (what is in my opinion, one of the best countries in the world)? Were our great-grandparents criminals for doing the same thing? Yes, they are. I work construction also, and the legal mexican immigrants don't like the idea of somebodey skipping out on all the leg work that they had to go through, only to take their job, that they already took minimum wage for. No. America is a country built of and by immigrants. This country would be nothing without immagrants. If there were these kinds of laws and restrictions 150 years ago; over half of us would not have the *honor* of calling ourselves citizens of the United states of America. The USA advertised in western european newspapers for immigrants. After that first wave, we advertised in eastern european newspapers. 150 years ago, we were building ourselves into what we are today. How hard would you try to get into this country if you were a poor, mexican laborer? If you knew that there was more work, and better pay in America? If you had a family to support? If all of them should be deported because a very small number are criminals, then is it true that there should be a nationwide gun ban because a very small number of gun owners are criminals? No. Only the illegal immigrants should be deported, in the same way that convicted fellons can't own guns. I'm sorry if I'm ranting, however maybe some people should attempt to see things in a different light.[/quote] I do see your point, I just wish that we could document these people coming into our country, so we know who and what we are dealing with. And that means making some changes, and doing it fast. And after we make some changes, we have to follow through with them, not just give it lip service, and show no back bone. Our laws have to be fair and efficent, but they also have to have some teeth if you chose to blatantly ignore them.

02-27-2008, 07:38 PM	#20
mdj696 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 265 Images: 1	illegal aliens Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".